2016/2017 Off-Season Thread

[calsnowskier]

And took classes from the Buster Posey School of Sliding

Awesome!!

 

[LHG]

I have to wonder if Hwang starts at AAA. I looked up Jung Ho Kang by way of comparison and there was considerable drop off in production from Korea to Pittsburgh. Kang was a year younger than Hwang when he transitioned but Kang posted a 1.198 OPS in his final year in Korea and then posted a .816 OPS in his first season in the MLB. Kang's three seasons prior to his last in Korea were .876, .973 and .754.

Hwang posted a .949 this past season in Korea. His three season prior were .870, .864 and .739. Overall, his production in Korea was lower than Kang's (their 2nd to last seasons were very similar, though). If Kang is an accurate barometer for what to expect from Hwang, then Hwang is going to have a rather mediocre season in the bigs - somewhere around .567 OPS. Even if the drop off is not nearly as steep, maybe his OPS only drops half as much as Kang's did, he would still be .758. That may be best case scenario.

 

[SFGRTB]

Giants to sign Nick Hundley to a deal. Full major league deal, $2M for 1 year. Looks like Brown is going to season in AAA for a bit. No 40-man move has been announced yet


Giants To Sign Nick Hundley

 

[SFGRTB]

I have to wonder if Hwang starts at AAA. I looked up Jung Ho Kang by way of comparison and there was considerable drop off in production from Korea to Pittsburgh. Kang was a year younger than Hwang when he transitioned but Kang posted a 1.198 OPS in his final year in Korea and then posted a .816 OPS in his first season in the MLB. Kang's three seasons prior to his last in Korea were .876, .973 and .754.

Hwang posted a .949 this past season in Korea. His three season prior were .870, .864 and .739. Overall, his production in Korea was lower than Kang's (their 2nd to last seasons were very similar, though). If Kang is an accurate barometer for what to expect from Hwang, then Hwang is going to have a rather mediocre season in the bigs - somewhere around .567 OPS. Even if the drop off is not nearly as steep, maybe his OPS only drops half as much as Kang's did, he would still be .758. That may be best case scenario.

I don't think anyone is expecting much from him at this point. There's a reason no one bid on him last offseason, and that he signed a few days before February this year for a minuscule deal. He left over $8M on the table in Korea to play here, so we know he is going to fight his butt off to be something.

This fangraphs article lists some reasons why he has a decent shot to be a good hitter: The Next Good Hitter to Come from South Korea | FanGraphs Baseball

 

[LHG]

Giants to sign Nick Hundley to a deal. Full major league deal, $2M for 1 year. Looks like Brown is going to season in AAA for a bit. No 40-man move has been announced yet


Giants To Sign Nick Hundley

Why?

 

[calsnowskier]

Why?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[SFGRTB]

Why?

Brown's defense and pitch framing wasn't all that great last year, so playing every day could help out.

Nick Hundley was worse at pitch framing and mediocre defensively at best. But his bat is better... marginally?

I thought we had a couple of solid options in Josmil Pinto and Tom Federowicz.... but this is the Giants, they'll go after veterans 1st.

 

[LHG]

Brown's defense and pitch framing wasn't all that great last year, so playing every day could help out.

Nick Hundley was worse at pitch framing and mediocre defensively at best. But his bat is better... marginally?

I thought we had a couple of solid options in Josmil Pinto and Tom Federowicz.... but this is the Giants, they'll go after veterans 1st.

I had hoped that the Giants were moving away from the veteran nonsense. Morse and Rollins showed some shades of that not being the case and Hundley proves that the veteran signing for the sake of veteran-ness is still there at some level.

Consider Hundley's offensive numbers. Last year he slashed .260/.320/.439 and the year before .301/.339/.467. On the surface they look pretty good actually. Aw, but where did he play those two years? Home of the Rockies. However, looking at his road splits last year, he hit better - .275/.331/.472 - than at home. 2015 was a different story - .237/.275/.355. Ugly. Additionally, his 1st half numbers in 2016 were much better than his 2nd half - .254/.358/.446 vs. .264/.285/.434. Also, consider that his 2014 season, the last year he did not play in Colorado, was downright awful, makes the possibility that he finally began to figure things out in 2016 as not probable. More likely, he had a fluky good first half on the road and we'll see him hit close to what Brown did last year. Not worth the signing, to me. If he hits like he did on the road last year, though, then it will definitely be worth it.

 

[SFGRTB]

This just occurred to me, I wonder of Hwang is going to play for Korea in the WBC? I would think not because he's trying to make the Giants. Is he even the best option for them? As a player coming over to MLB, you would think he's at least one of the better 3rd basemen, especially since Kang is not playing.

 

[SFGRTB]

So according to this story, the Giants are likely or would like to have a bench of Gorkys-Morse/Ruggiano-Gonnor-Rollins-Hundley. . . . . I mean I see what they're trying to do. An OFer that can back up all 3 OF spots and provide speed, a right-handed power pinch hit bat, a left-handed power pinch hit bat, middle infield defensive versatility, and another right-handed power bat. I'm not THAT mad about it.

The Giants are probably REALLY hoping Parker can take that LF job. It makes sense that they want someone to win that job outright. There's all kinds of writing on the wall for poor Mac Williamson. For some reason, I really want him to win the job. And I guess it makes more sense to go with the vets 1st and if they fail, we still have the kids in the minors playing everyday (and hopefully improving), whereas if the kids all started right away, we'd lose most of the vets. I guess just get ready for an old has-been bench! Also, it sounds like the Giants are going to start Hwang off in AAA first. Makes sense, Kang started off in AAA too.

LGH, this really complicates things in our prospect discussion talk. Things are definitely leaning towards your assessment!

Giants notes: LF competition, Jae-gyun Hwang, etc.

 

[SFGRTB]

Depth chart right now:

Bum-Cueto-Shark-Moore-Cain

MM-Smith-Strick-Law-Kontos-Gearrin-Okert/Osich

Posey-Belt-Panik-Nunez-Crawford-Parker-Span-Pence

Hundley-Gonnor-Rollins-Gorkys-Morse/Ruggiano

Poor Kelby, Mac, Brown, EA, Blach, Suarez, etc.

Though I'm basically expecting Pence, Span and Cain to get hurt at some point, and Rollins will probably spend time on the DL sorting out his AARP membership.

 

[LHG]

So according to this story, the Giants are likely or would like to have a bench of Gorkys-Morse/Ruggiano-Gonnor-Rollins-Hundley. . . . . I mean I see what they're trying to do. An OFer that can back up all 3 OF spots and provide speed, a right-handed power pinch hit bat, a left-handed power pinch hit bat, middle infield defensive versatility, and another right-handed power bat. I'm not THAT mad about it.

The Giants are probably REALLY hoping Parker can take that LF job. It makes sense that they want someone to win that job outright. There's all kinds of writing on the wall for poor Mac Williamson. For some reason, I really want him to win the job. And I guess it makes more sense to go with the vets 1st and if they fail, we still have the kids in the minors playing everyday (and hopefully improving), whereas if the kids all started right away, we'd lose most of the vets. I guess just get ready for an old has-been bench! Also, it sounds like the Giants are going to start Hwang off in AAA first. Makes sense, Kang started off in AAA too.

LGH, this really complicates things in our prospect discussion talk. Things are definitely leaning towards your assessment!

Giants notes: LF competition, Jae-gyun Hwang, etc.

***Warning: I'm about to go on a rant here!***

I read a different article on MLB Rumors (Giants Notes: Posey, Hundley, Left Field, Hwang) and Evans says that he hopes that one of Parker or Williamson separates himself from the pack and takes left field, intimating that the other is gone or at AAA. Why? Why make this decision before spring training even begins? And why some of these guys making the team? Rollins!!! Really??!?! Morse?!?!? Lets talk about them for a moment Morse had all of 6 at-bats in professional baseball last year. And was he injured? No! He was released by the Pirates in April and NO ONE wanted to pick him up for the REST OF THE SEASON! Nobody Mr. Evans. Why could that be? Maybe because he doesn't have anything left in the tank. That cliche should click for you. And Mr. Rollins? He last a bit longer, June, before the same thing happened to him. Did I mention ages? Morse will be 35 at Opening Day and Rollins will be 38. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so Morse had some clutch post season hits for us 3 years ago and Rollins was once a premier shortstop. But neither are close to the levels that they used to be.

Mr. Evans, your front office has gone this route before for bench purposes and it doesn't work. If this was a roster full of inexperienced MLB players I could understand the need to carry a couple of veterans for mentoring but this team does not need that! It needs a couple more younger players to fill out the roster. Players with more upside than downside. Players who are much cheaper and deserve the opportunity.

Hey, if Ruggiano outperforms Gorkys or Jarrett or Mac then I understand him making the roster over one of them. But don't just hand a spot to a couple of veterans just because they are freakin' veterans! How is Rollins middle infield versatility? He's played shortstop his whole major league career, except for one time he played 2nd base - in 2002! Oh yeah, he DH'd 3 times for Phily and 4 times for the White Sox, there's some real versatility! Ruggiano's SLG was .423 - playing with Round Rock and Las Vegas - in 2016. Williamson had a .411 SLG with the Giants. Both are right handed.

Okay, so I understand we are talking the bench here, so its not the end of the world. These decisions just seem so incredibly stupid! And with Morse/Ruggiano and Rollins likely making the team, expect two more guys to be dfa'd by the end of spring training.

 

[SFGRTB]

***Warning: I'm about to go on a rant here!***

I read a different article on MLB Rumors (Giants Notes: Posey, Hundley, Left Field, Hwang) and Evans says that he hopes that one of Parker or Williamson separates himself from the pack and takes left field, intimating that the other is gone or at AAA. Why? Why make this decision before spring training even begins? And why some of these guys making the team? Rollins!!! Really??!?! Morse?!?!? Lets talk about them for a moment Morse had all of 6 at-bats in professional baseball last year. And was he injured? No! He was released by the Pirates in April and NO ONE wanted to pick him up for the REST OF THE SEASON! Nobody Mr. Evans. Why could that be? Maybe because he doesn't have anything left in the tank. That cliche should click for you. And Mr. Rollins? He last a bit longer, June, before the same thing happened to him. Did I mention ages? Morse will be 35 at Opening Day and Rollins will be 38. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so Morse had some clutch post season hits for us 3 years ago and Rollins was once a premier shortstop. But neither are close to the levels that they used to be.

Mr. Evans, your front office has gone this route before for bench purposes and it doesn't work. If this was a roster full of inexperienced MLB players I could understand the need to carry a couple of veterans for mentoring but this team does not need that! It needs a couple more younger players to fill out the roster. Players with more upside than downside. Players who are much cheaper and deserve the opportunity.

Hey, if Ruggiano outperforms Gorkys or Jarrett or Mac then I understand him making the roster over one of them. But don't just hand a spot to a couple of veterans just because they are freakin' veterans! How is Rollins middle infield versatility? He's played shortstop his whole major league career, except for one time he played 2nd base - in 2002! Oh yeah, he DH'd 3 times for Phily and 4 times for the White Sox, there's some real versatility! Ruggiano's SLG was .423 - playing with Round Rock and Las Vegas - in 2016. Williamson had a .411 SLG with the Giants. Both are right handed.

Okay, so I understand we are talking the bench here, so its not the end of the world. These decisions just seem so incredibly stupid! And with Morse/Ruggiano and Rollins likely making the team, expect two more guys to be dfa'd by the end of spring training.

Well I think when you look at it right now, before we have seen any of these guys in Spring, it makes sense that the Giants would prefer the guys that they can't keep around to do well rather than struggle. If these veterans come in and preform well, the Giants can send Kelby, Mac, and company to AAA and hang onto them and have the depth for the rest of the season. I anticipate the Giants won't hesitate to hand Mac the keys to LF if he's doing everything right in the Spring and have Kelby back up the infield if he's the clear choice and so on. It means losing Rollins, Morse, Ruggiano etc., but maybe that's not a bad thing if they aren't doing well. I just think RIGHT NOW, it's probably the ideal situation for them because they can keep the most depth that way.

As for DFA candidates, they could probably get away with Crick and Gomez sneaking through waivers.

 

[LHG]

Well I think when you look at it right now, before we have seen any of these guys in Spring, it makes sense that the Giants would prefer the guys that they can't keep around to do well rather than struggle. If these veterans come in and preform well, the Giants can send Kelby, Mac, and company to AAA and hang onto them and have the depth for the rest of the season. I anticipate the Giants won't hesitate to hand Mac the keys to LF if he's doing everything right in the Spring and have Kelby back up the infield if he's the clear choice and so on. It means losing Rollins, Morse, Ruggiano etc., but maybe that's not a bad thing if they aren't doing well. I just think RIGHT NOW, it's probably the ideal situation for them because they can keep the most depth that way.

As for DFA candidates, they could probably get away with Crick and Gomez sneaking through waivers.

Its one thing for them to want the old guys who could be unemployed the rest of the season if they don't make the team to do well. Its another to practically hand them the keys to the car before spring training begins and tell them not to worry about wrecking the car, we'll give you another one. What if the intent is to carry the winner of the Morse/Ruggiano battle, regardless of how poorly they do and then move down one of Williamson or Parker? If its Parker, I do believe he goes on waivers. Same with Rollins and Gillaspie. If Gillaspie gets the short end of the stick, he goes on waivers (I picked those two because neither give much versatility). Sure, both Parker and Gillaspie may still be around at AAA, if they choose or if no one claims them but the risk is higher and the depth could still be gone.

 

[SFGRTB]

Its one thing for them to want the old guys who could be unemployed the rest of the season if they don't make the team to do well. Its another to practically hand them the keys to the car before spring training begins and tell them not to worry about wrecking the car, we'll give you another one. What if the intent is to carry the winner of the Morse/Ruggiano battle, regardless of how poorly they do and then move down one of Williamson or Parker? If its Parker, I do believe he goes on waivers. Same with Rollins and Gillaspie. If Gillaspie gets the short end of the stick, he goes on waivers (I picked those two because neither give much versatility). Sure, both Parker and Gillaspie may still be around at AAA, if they choose or if no one claims them but the risk is higher and the depth could still be gone.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt now that whoever are the best players will make the team out of camp. I think Gonnor is safe regardless, it's Kelby that needs to watch out, but he can be optioned. I don't think the Giants want to risk losing Parker either. The guys who are at a disadvantage are the ones who have options. There were 3 young guys I looked at that were at the most risk of being lost: Parker, Gorkys and EA. One is already probably gone, and it's possible a second might, but I don't think the Giants intend to lose all three.

I don't think Hwang makes a push until May.

 

[LHG]

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt now that whoever are the best players will make the team out of camp. I think Gonnor is safe regardless, it's Kelby that needs to watch out, but he can be optioned. I don't think the Giants want to risk losing Parker either. The guys who are at a disadvantage are the ones who have options. There were 3 young guys I looked at that were at the most risk of being lost: Parker, Gorkys and EA. One is already probably gone, and it's possible a second might, but I don't think the Giants intend to lose all three.

I don't think Hwang makes a push until May.

Yeah, I realize that I'm being knee-jerk but some of what was said didn't add up. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out in spring training. Whoever makes the 25 man roster, I will wholeheartedly root for them all to do well.

 

[calsnowskier]

Bringing Morse and Ruggiano in to push McParker makes a lot of sense, IMHO. If McParker completely shits the bed, than give the opening day job to the best of Gorky/Morse/Ruggiano, knowing that Morse/Ruggiano can/will be DFA'd at the first sign of McParker wanting the job.

I think the irg would prefer to make sure both get regular time, so that's t means, I think, that Parker gets squatters rights in SF with Mac slated for Sacto. But I think everyone believes that long-term, Mac should be the better player.

As for the infield, I just don't see Rollins getting a legit shot at the roster. If Calixte has options, than it will be a fair fight between him and KT for the util spot. If he doesn't, I expect him to have the edge. FTR, I found a site that claimed that Calixte has 2 options going into 17. I have no idea how reliable that number is, though.

 

[tzill]

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt now that whoever are the best players will make the team out of camp. I think Gonnor is safe regardless, it's Kelby that needs to watch out, but he can be optioned. I don't think the Giants want to risk losing Parker either. The guys who are at a disadvantage are the ones who have options. There were 3 young guys I looked at that were at the most risk of being lost: Parker, Gorkys and EA. One is already probably gone, and it's possible a second might, but I don't think the Giants intend to lose all three.

I don't think Hwang makes a push until May.

but..but...why would you do that? It's not like they've won multiple trophies or anything....

 

[calsnowskier]

but..but...why would you do that? It's not like they've won multiple trophies or anything....

The Cubs and Royals have both won since the last time the Giants have.

Now THAT is futility...

 

[tzill]

The Cubs and Royals have both won since the last time the Giants have.

Now THAT is futility...

Imagine how the Yanks and Sox feel....