2015 starting pitching

[msgkings322]

Just for giggles....it's fairly complex when you consider what do we do with Timmy, is Petit worthy of a full time starting spot now, do you re-sign Peavy and/or Vogey?

How would you guys do it? Depth counts too, so you can't have 'too many' pitchers, but then again you can't just stash Lincecum in AAA (can you?)

In a video game world I'd sign Peavy, let Vogey walk, and have a rotation of Bum/Hudson/Peavy/Cain/Petit and release Tim. In the real world Tim probably has to stay on the roster, I guess as the long relief guy Petit was?

 

[Mays-Fan]

Just for giggles....it's fairly complex when you consider what do we do with Timmy, is Petit worthy of a full time starting spot now, do you re-sign Peavy and/or Vogey?

How would you guys do it? Depth counts too, so you can't have 'too many' pitchers, but then again you can't just stash Lincecum in AAA (can you?)

In a video game world I'd sign Peavy, let Vogey walk, and have a rotation of Bum/Hudson/Peavy/Cain/Petit and release Tim. In the real world Tim probably has to stay on the roster, I guess as the long relief guy Petit was?

Some random thoughts, in no special order:

For starters (pun intended), we have Timmeh signed for another year at $18mm. MAYBE we trade him, but I doubt it. He won't be "released". Actually, trading him to pick up on salary (I'm sure there is some demand for him out there) doesn't sound like a bad idea, once you get past the blasphemy aspect of it.

I imagine one of our very decent SPs in the minors will be ready to challenge by the ASG, maybe even sooner. We should work that into the equation.

As good as Petit has been of late, I'm not yet convinced he is an SFG-quality starter as part of the regular rotation. He's doing fine as a stopgap to Timmeh's breakdown, and he certainly is building credentials. Perhaps he will be more consistent now that he knows this will be his role, as opposed to the inconsistency he showed being a spot starter.

And, yes, I would re-sign both Peavy and Vogey. Respectively, 2/20 and 2/12. Esp if we can move Timmeh.

 

[SF11704]

More random thoughts ...
I like the idea of trading Timmeh but not sure of the value he really has. He does have some but not 18M anymore. Maybe a change of scenery does him well. Maybe like Jason Schmidt. But, it does ring of Blasphemy. I love Peavy. Petit is interesting but I'm still not sure he's a starter. Maybe if we give him the position we will see. Cain worries me. Surgery always worries me. Recovery is always a crap shoot. I'm thinking we will see one of the kids in the minors break into the rotation. Vogey also worroes me somewhat. Stable now so I'd take a gamble on him. For me the key is Cain's return. Having a healthy Cain in our SP rotation would be huge.

 

[calsnowskier]

Maybe the Giants work a trade with Seattle in the offseason sending Timmeh and 8-10M for a B level prospect?

 

[tzill]

Maybe the Giants work a trade with Seattle in the offseason sending Timmeh and 8-10M for a B level prospect?

 

[msgkings322]

Maybe the Giants work a trade with Seattle in the offseason sending Timmeh and 8-10M for a B level prospect?

Would ANYONE pay $8-10 mil for Timmy, let alone give him a roster spot? We at least love the guy for what he was, and for being a great Giant. Other teams don't even have that.

If we deal him it will mean we eat like $14 mil. And even then I'm not sure any teams bother.

 

[msgkings322]

More random thoughts ...
I like the idea of trading Timmeh but not sure of the value he really has. He does have some but not 18M anymore. Maybe a change of scenery does him well. Maybe like Jason Schmidt. But, it does ring of Blasphemy. I love Peavy. Petit is interesting but I'm still not sure he's a starter. Maybe if we give him the position we will see. Cain worries me. Surgery always worries me. Recovery is always a crap shoot. I'm thinking we will see one of the kids in the minors break into the rotation. Vogey also worroes me somewhat. Stable now so I'd take a gamble on him. For me the key is Cain's return. Having a healthy Cain in our SP rotation would be huge.

So no Petit? Bum/Cain/Vogey/Peavy/a kid from the minors?

 

[calsnowskier]

Would ANYONE pay $8-10 mil for Timmy, let alone give him a roster spot? We at least love the guy for what he was, and for being a great Giant. Other teams don't even have that.

If we deal him it will mean we eat like $14 mil. And even then I'm not sure any teams bother.

Ultimately, you are probably right. But if any team would take him, it would be the M's. They are a good marketing organization as well, and they may be able to do something with him to get a decent portion of his salary back.

Wishful thinking, I acknowledge.

 

[Mays-Fan]

It's also odd to think there is a reasonable chance that next year Timmeh, Panda, and Romo will all be gone. Cain will be a question mark.

And yet, we will soldier on and likely contend.

It's good to have a functional minor league system, and become an organization that is bigger than the players.

 

[Reefer]

So no Petit? Bum/Cain/Vogey/Peavy/a kid from the minors?

Hudson???

They should tell Timmy to plan his offseason training as if he will be a reliever and re-sign Petit for the same role he had this year.

I'd also re-sign both Peavy and Vogey to 1 year deals with incentive based options. Peavy may be looking for a multi year deal, but if the money is right and the incentives are something that even an average season would allow him to reach i.e. 25+starts and 180+IP, I think he'd take the deal so he could be back in the NL West and play for Bochy. I think we've seen that you can't have too much pitching depth and I'm not sure anyone in the minors can be counted on to take a spot in the rotation. Hopefully some of the prospects, (Crick, Blach, Blackburn) take some steps forward, but IMO none of them have shown anything this season that would allow Sabean to think he can rely on one of them being in the rotation at the start of 2015. It would be nice if he could make a move for another youngish starter that could compliment Bumgarner as the rest of the rotation will be in their 30s. Or just drop major coin and sign Lester.

Bum/Cain(30)/Hudson(39)/Peavy(33)/Vogey(37)/Petit(30)/Timmy(30)/prospects

 

[msgkings322]

It's also odd to think there is a reasonable chance that next year Timmeh, Panda, and Romo will all be gone. Cain will be a question mark.

And yet, we will soldier on and likely contend.

It's good to have a functional minor league system, and become an organization that is bigger than the players.

Cain might be a ? but he and his contract are in the rotation for years to come. I don't think we can trade Timmy short of outright release...and we don't do that.

 

[msgkings322]

Hudson???

They should tell Timmy to plan his offseason training as if he will be a reliever and re-sign Petit for the same role he had this year.

I'd also re-sign both Peavy and Vogey to 1 year deals with incentive based options. Peavy may be looking for a multi year deal, but if the money is right and the incentives are something that even an average season would allow him to reach i.e. 25+starts and 180+IP, I think he'd take the deal so he could be back in the NL West and play for Bochy. I think we've seen that you can't have too much pitching depth and I'm not sure anyone in the minors can be counted on to take a spot in the rotation. Hopefully some of the prospects, (Crick, Blach, Blackburn) take some steps forward, but IMO none of them have shown anything this season that would allow Sabean to think he can rely on one of them being in the rotation at the start of 2015. It would be nice if he could make a move for another youngish starter that could compliment Bumgarner as the rest of the rotation will be in their 30s. Or just drop major coin and sign Lester.

Bum/Cain(30)/Hudson(39)/Peavy(33)/Vogey(37)/Petit(30)/Timmy(30)/prospects

Forgot Hudson. No way Peavy signs a 1 yr. I think we will figure out something with Timmy (long relief, starter depth), I think Petit gets a shot, I think we sign Peavy to a 2-3 yr deal, and Vogey walks.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Just brainstorming here and throwing it out there:

With the age, miles, and relative depth we have at SP, might we try a six-man rotation?:

Bum, Cain, Hudson, Peavy, Petit, and either Vogey/Timmeh.

 

[calsnowskier]

Just brainstorming here and throwing it out there:

With the age, miles, and relative depth we have at SP, might we try a six-man rotation?:

Bum, Cain, Hudson, Peavy, Petit, and either Vogey/Timmeh.

6 man rotation does not for a team that has a true 1, which we have. And if you were to have Bum on a regular rotation with everyone else on a 6 man schedule, that would just cause clubhouse issues.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Also, just dreaming of what could have been:

Imagine if we kept Wheeler.

 

[tzill]

Hudson???

They should tell Timmy to plan his offseason training as if he will be a reliever and re-sign Petit for the same role he had this year.

I'd also re-sign both Peavy and Vogey to 1 year deals with incentive based options. Peavy may be looking for a multi year deal, but if the money is right and the incentives are something that even an average season would allow him to reach i.e. 25+starts and 180+IP, I think he'd take the deal so he could be back in the NL West and play for Bochy. I think we've seen that you can't have too much pitching depth and I'm not sure anyone in the minors can be counted on to take a spot in the rotation. Hopefully some of the prospects, (Crick, Blach, Blackburn) take some steps forward, but IMO none of them have shown anything this season that would allow Sabean to think he can rely on one of them being in the rotation at the start of 2015. It would be nice if he could make a move for another youngish starter that could compliment Bumgarner as the rest of the rotation will be in their 30s. Or just drop major coin and sign Lester.

Bum/Cain(30)/Hudson(39)/Peavy(33)/Vogey(37)/Petit(30)/Timmy(30)/prospects

Yeah, that ain't happening. The major FA signing this offseason will be Panda. Romo will be gone, and likely one of Peavy/Tron will be back. Can't see Peavy, at 33, taking a one year deal.

I think we'll have: Bum/Cain/Huddy/Peavy/Biggie...and a midseason callup of the best young pitcher

 

[tzill]

Just brainstorming here and throwing it out there:

With the age, miles, and relative depth we have at SP, might we try a six-man rotation?:

Bum, Cain, Hudson, Peavy, Petit, and either Vogey/Timmeh.

Can't see the economics of that. Bum/Cain/Huddy/Peavy all are/will be making too much not to take 30+ starts.

 

[tzill]

Also, just dreaming of what could have been:

Imagine if we kept Wheeler.

Or, not blown that three game series at home to Colorado where the bullpen was a grease fire.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Can't see the economics of that. Bum/Cain/Huddy/Peavy all are/will be making too much not to take 30+ starts.

I understand your point, but also understand that we have nearly $40mm of salary being paid out right now to SP's who are out of the rotation because of arm trouble (Cain) or likely some form of fatigue (Timmeh).

Doesn't sound very economical.

 

[tzill]

I understand your point, but also understand that we have nearly $40mm of salary being paid out right now to SP's who are out of the rotation because of arm trouble (Cain) or likely some form of fatigue (Timmeh).

Doesn't sound very economical.

Well, that's a bit of ex post facto reasoning, no? If SS had known Timmy would be broken and Cainer would miss essentially a whole season with bone chips he's had forever, he likely makes different deals with both. We KNOW Bum is going to get $7 next year, Cain is going to get $21MM, and Huddy is going to get $12. Peavy is likely in the $12MM range too. That's $50MM+ for the front four in the rotation, and you have to look at getting 120+ starts out of that. I know you get that, but I think that's what SS is looking at and why a six man rotation isn't going to work. Moreover, when you add in the disruption in schedule that all four would experience and the fact that you lose 7 or 8 Bum starts I just don't see it.

I think the 6 man idea is intriguing and some org is going to go to one in the near future. I just don't think it's going to be the Giants in 2015.