2014 Pirates

[thecrow124]

And as we are discussing what to pay Burnett, Tim Lincecum signs for 2/$35 million.........proving once again that the Giants are idiots. If Lincecum is worth $17.5 million per year, then Burnett is worth significantly more.

 

[sychmd]

why overspend if we dont have to.
burnett isnt playing for money, he's playing for fun and to be on a winner. he will tell us if we need to bid against wash, phil, or baltimore.

i would pass on barmes and give harrison the 3rd IF. we still need bats and barmes extra D is negligible as he gets older and slower. can also try to get a better IF platoon player on FA market.

 

[thecrow124]

Someone to watch, Chris Capuano, NH has liked him for a while and he is a FA now that the Dodgers released him. If Wandy is healthy, I don't see it happening, but if Wandy is still hurting then the deal could make sense. He is a typical NH reclamation project, had strong ground ball numbers last year and his .340 BABIP would suggest that he was very unlucky,especially with all the ground balls.

I am not suggesting that this would be a good player to target, just someone whose name always seems to pop up with the Pirates.

 

[steelparrot]

Not that it was much of a doubt, Wandy picked up his player option for 13 mill, at least the Astros are paying 5.5 of it.

 

[ramburgh]

It sounds like the Pirates are trying to work out deals to bring back Barmes, Burnett and Byrd.

Also read that a trade for Giancarlo Stanton is a possibility.

Those 4 would complete a really strong 25-man roster.

Would like to see Capuano, Santana or another SP or two added to the mix as insurance.

Marte, Mercer, McCutchen, Byrd, Stanton, Alvarez, Walker, Martin
Liriano, Burnett, Cole, Rodriguez, (Locke or Cumpton?)
T. Sanchez, Barmes, Lambo/Snider, Harrison, G. Sanchez?
Grilli, Melancon, Wilson, Watson, Mazzaro, Pimentel, Reid or Gomez?

 

[sychmd]

It sounds like the Pirates are trying to work out deals to bring back Barmes, Burnett and Byrd.

Also read that a trade for Giancarlo Stanton is a possibility.

Those 4 would complete a really strong 25-man roster.

Would like to see Capuano, Santana or another SP or two added to the mix as insurance.

Marte, Mercer, McCutchen, Byrd, Stanton, Alvarez, Walker, Martin
Liriano, Burnett, Cole, Rodriguez, (Locke or Cumpton?)
T. Sanchez, Barmes, Lambo/Snider, Harrison, G. Sanchez?
Grilli, Melancon, Wilson, Watson, Mazzaro, Pimentel, Reid or Gomez?

can't get stanton and byrd. love stanton but don't want to give up our main starting studs in the system.
also, addd morton to your list of starters.
get rid of snider.

 

[thedddd]

Arbitration Eligibles: Pittsburgh Pirates: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

With the changes coming I just hope the 1B platoon isn't Sanchez and Jones again. I am fine with Sanchez against lefties but they need something better on the other half of the platoon. I truly am not a fan of platoons so hopefully they get a true OBP upgrade at 1B. I don't see a reason that Jones could get around 5 million a year.

And for Burnett they didn't qualify him an offer: Pirates Do Not Make Qualifying Offer To A.J. Burnett: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Which is a good thing because I doubt they want to pay him 14.1 million and he already said he will retire or play only for the Pirates so the compensatory pick really didn't matter.

 

[sychmd]

smart move not bidding against ourself for burnett.
he has enough money and he isn't the #1 or even #2.
good to have him, but really a #3 and at tail end.
bring him back for a reasonable price to continue the chemistry and mentoring.
please don't bring back barnes tho.
mercer will get most of time at SS and play one of he younger guys who can also be a PR in late innings as well.

 

[element1286]

I don't get not qualifying AJ. 1) They aren't gonna get him much cheaper than the 14 million, and 2) if he did decide to sign elsewhere they would get a draft pick.

 

[thecrow124]

Seems like a risk to not extend Burnett the offer, but I guess the ball is pretty much in his court. If he decides to play, the $14.1 million is still there. However, the one advantage I can see is that we don't need to sit around and wait to see if he takes the offer. The way we sit today, the Pirates can go make offers to any available FA's and if January rolls around and Burnett comes and says he wants to play, then they can offer him what they have available. The good thing about this offseason is that even deep into the offseason we should not be running out of money.

Personally I would have liked to see the offer extended, but I can also see reasons not to offer it. If you offer it and he decides he wants to play, it guarentees that he could only play for the Pirates, but if he wanted to play for Baltimore, they would never sign him because the offer drives the price to high, and they would still have to give up their first round pick. This isn't an issue for us, as I would like to keep him anyway, but out of respect for what he has done for our team and the city, I can fully understand not forcing his hand. I also don't think multiple years would mean anything, if he plays it will likely be a 1 year deal, so he would only be on the books for a season and then could retire or seek employment elsewhere. I only want 1 more year anyway, then Cole could be established and Taillon and Kingham would be up Glasnow and Heredia would be close, and Morton and Cumpton would be the back end of the rotation.

 

[element1286]

Seems like a risk to not extend Burnett the offer, but I guess the ball is pretty much in his court. If he decides to play, the $14.1 million is still there. However, the one advantage I can see is that we don't need to sit around and wait to see if he takes the offer. The way we sit today, the Pirates can go make offers to any available FA's and if January rolls around and Burnett comes and says he wants to play, then they can offer him what they have available. The good thing about this offseason is that even deep into the offseason we should not be running out of money.

Personally I would have liked to see the offer extended, but I can also see reasons not to offer it. If you offer it and he decides he wants to play, it guarentees that he could only play for the Pirates, but if he wanted to play for Baltimore, they would never sign him because the offer drives the price to high, and they would still have to give up their first round pick. This isn't an issue for us, as I would like to keep him anyway, but out of respect for what he has done for our team and the city, I can fully understand not forcing his hand. I also don't think multiple years would mean anything, if he plays it will likely be a 1 year deal, so he would only be on the books for a season and then could retire or seek employment elsewhere. I only want 1 more year anyway, then Cole could be established and Taillon and Kingham would be up Glasnow and Heredia would be close, and Morton and Cumpton would be the back end of the rotation.

Roberto Hernandez » Statistics » Pitching | FanGraphs Baseball

On that note, I think this guy would be a good low cost option for some rotation dept.

 

[Illinest]

This is absolutely ridiculous. Nobody in their right mind would say something like "I'll only play for this one particular team or not at all". AJ Burnett is not retiring, and he's not signing anywhere for peanuts either. We're not going to get any compensation. He's going to get a lot more than everyone thinks. There's an extra 800 million dollars to go around! Even if the owners pocketed half of it there's still enough that a guy who maybe used to be worth 14 million a year is going to get more like 20.

What this should tell you is that Neil thinks 14 million is too much to spend on a starter. There's no downside to extending the QO so you can be certain that he's already decided that he's not spending what it would take to sign Burnett.

Well now we've got a problem, because there's a correlation between cost and performance. He's going to end up signing some shit reclamation project instead and we're all going to have to hope he doesn't put up Jonathan Sanchez numbers.

Fuck this fucking front office. I was assured that the team would spend what it takes to compete when the time was right. There's no reason why we couldn't be spending 35-40 million dollars this off-season. Watch our off-season turn out to be something like:
Loney - 10 million per
Johnson - 12 million per
Barmes - 4 million per

Motherfucking assholes.

 

[thedddd]

I thought there was another benefit to not giving Burnett a qualifying offer but after I read the rules again it doesn't make any sense unless he is willing to take less than the 14.1 for year (i highly doubt he would)? And the only three folks that know that are him, his agent and GMNH.

 

[element1286]

Dan Haren got one year 13 million last year from the Nats, the exact type of team the Pirates will be bidding against for AJ, who I don't believe the 'Pirates or retired stuff.'

The Nats would throw 3 and 40 at him easily. No reason not to protect yourself, by making them give up a pick if they want to get into bidding.

On the low end, what do the Pirates expect to get AJ for, 10 million? If this is truly a one year deal, then the difference between 10 million and 14 million is almost nothing.

 

[Illinest]

Even if the Pirates paid Burnett some ridiculous salary like 25 million it would be okay if it's just a one year commitment. The Pirates have blown 4 or 5 million dollars on replacement level players ever year, so maybe let's just stop doing that and give some of the money to Burnett instead?

Pirates Sign Lyle Overbay: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com
Pirates, catcher Rod Barajas agree to one-year contract | MLB.com: News
Pirates Sign Clint Barmes: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com


Seriously though - the Pirates are okay with overpaying Barajas only to see him be replaced by Mckenry, but they aren't willing to overpay Burnett?

 

[sychmd]

why so much whining about the FO in the burnett situation. wait until it actually plays out then you have plenty of time to moan all you want.
i said earlier, no reason to offer burnett a qualifying offer.
we has made over 100 million. he realized while being in NY that money and even winning doesn't bring peace.
he likes the pirates, the front office, and especially the teammates. i take him at face value that it is the pirates or retire. if not, then he isn't really the honest chemistry guy he is portrayed to be.

he is older, still hasn't played he whole year without being injured, and doesn't rise in the big game. yes he was our number 1 last year and number 3 this year, but 14 million for a rickety hot head #3 and possibly 4 by the end of the year, is a stretch.

they can always give him 14 if that is what he and the FO agree to, but why be locked into it if you don't have to. if he was 32 and made all 33 starts the last 2 years, i would consider it. or if we had nobody and no depth, maybe i consider it. but the context is much different.

this FO has shown a high degree of competence in resurrecting this team from the ashes. have all the decisions been good ones, certainly not. but in fairness, we don't know what the options were in those decisions. we do know they had very limited bargaining power, leverage, or attractiveness to FA. also, we valued our player/prospects highly in our proposed trades, but did other GMs. almost none of them, other than bautista have really panned out for others.
just saying .......

 

[Illinest]

AJ Burnett is worth a lot more than 14 million. The only downside of offering him a QO is the chance that he might take it, so yes we lost out. If he accepted the offer then we'd be getting the performance of a 17-20 million dollar pitcher for only 14 million and no long term commitment. If he turns it down then at least we get a comp pick.

Go look at what lesser pitchers are asking for - 17 - 20 million or more per year. And you think AJ likes Pittsburgh so much that he'll come back at less than 14?

No this is already done. Neil already screwed up. It looks just like another sign of how cheap these sons of bitches are. They better be making a play for beltran or choo or have a premium trade in the works. If they trade for and extend Price (against all precedent) then i'll admit i was wrong.

 

[thedddd]

The only way it makes sense to me is that Burnett and the FO already have a "wink, wink...handshake" agreement in place for a set amount less than 14.1 million.

This is what is alarming about the whole price of pitching if these two:
Santana Seeks $100MM; Nolasco Looking For $80MM: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com
get what they are asking for that stupid GM deserves what they get. But what it does is screw the small market teams into paying too much.

 

[element1286]

why so much whining about the FO in the burnett situation. wait until it actually plays out then you have plenty of time to moan all you want.
i said earlier, no reason to offer burnett a qualifying offer.
we has made over 100 million. he realized while being in NY that money and even winning doesn't bring peace.
he likes the pirates, the front office, and especially the teammates. i take him at face value that it is the pirates or retire. if not, then he isn't really the honest chemistry guy he is portrayed to be.

he is older, still hasn't played he whole year without being injured, and doesn't rise in the big game. yes he was our number 1 last year and number 3 this year, but 14 million for a rickety hot head #3 and possibly 4 by the end of the year, is a stretch.

they can always give him 14 if that is what he and the FO agree to, but why be locked into it if you don't have to. if he was 32 and made all 33 starts the last 2 years, i would consider it. or if we had nobody and no depth, maybe i consider it. but the context is much different.

this FO has shown a high degree of competence in resurrecting this team from the ashes. have all the decisions been good ones, certainly not. but in fairness, we don't know what the options were in those decisions. we do know they had very limited bargaining power, leverage, or attractiveness to FA. also, we valued our player/prospects highly in our proposed trades, but did other GMs. almost none of them, other than bautista have really panned out for others.
just saying .......

That's fair, but I still think it was a foolish move. I hope it works out though obviously.

And I agree about the FO having earned some benefit of the doubt.

 

[element1286]

The only way it makes sense to me is that Burnett and the FO already have a "wink, wink...handshake" agreement in place for a set amount less than 14.1 million.

This is what is alarming about the whole price of pitching if these two:
Santana Seeks $100MM; Nolasco Looking For $80MM: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com
get what they are asking for that stupid GM deserves what they get. But what it does is screw the small market teams into paying too much.

Yeah, that's insane. 3 years 30 million would be fair for those type of guys.