1996 Bulls and the 2016 GSW

[Wamu]

If you play Rodman at the 5, then it is either Rodman or Bogut. That is why comparing Rodman to Bogut is 100% relevant here.

Why would you play Rodman @ the 5 when during his entire 14 year career he was a 4? Just wondering.

 

[LAD]

Why would you play Rodman @ the 5 when during his entire 14 year career he was a 4? Just wondering.

Because he's played both positions plenty of times during his career.

 

[Wamu]

Because he's played both positions plenty of times during his career.

Are you sure?

 

[GNG]

The 1971-72 Lakers were incredibly talented.

 

[tlance]

So are you saying that Rodman didn't deserve his accolades? And, I've agred that I think Dray deserves to be DPOY, but that doesn't mean he's better than Rodman yet. When he's made the NBA all defensive team multiple times then maybe it might be a better time to compare them.

It's the same argument others have made tween LbJ & Steph. LBJ has been the best player over multiple years whereas Steph just started to resemble that in the last season and a half.

No. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Rodman was deserving, but you can't say that Rodman is a better defender because he has more awards. Awards are subjective and Draymond is deserving too.

 

[tlance]

Hahaha no it isn't relevant when we've already agreed that Rodman would be used for DEFENSE & REBOUNDING. Every other guy out there can pass efficiently if you're saying that's where Rodman would hurt them. Furthermore, Dray & Rodman could switch between 4/5 based on the need; something both have done throughout their careers.
I think I might be able to agree with your point if the Warriors had a center that was a beast on defense and a monster at blocked shots. Since they don't really have that (Ezeli is good & imo better than Bogut most nights) then I'm just not able to say having a Rodman type player would hurt them rather than help them.

But, we'lll never know because there really isn't another player like him. Maybe Drummond in detroit if he continues to do what he's done so far this season.

Drummond is nothing like Rodman.

Do you really think that the Warriors offense would not be impacted by replacing Bogut for Rodman? Because a player "used for defense and rebounding only", that does not mean that his presence won't hurt the offense.

But honestly, if you can't see why that is true, then I am wasting my time with this conversation. You may follow the game and have statistical knowledge, but that is not the same as understanding how it works.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

The Warriors will have to win a title this year before you even compare those teams.

 

[SJ76]

I think blaming Europe is a cop out.

I think it's more the natural evolution of the game. Players now a days have becomes very highly skilled that versatility is valued. Teams now a days are more enamored with the Jack of All Trades rather than master of 1. It really has to do more with the sophistication of offenses now.

I was just being sarcastic man. Not blaming Europe

 

[SJ76]

Totally and completely false.

Their offense would be MUCH easier to guard. They have the best offense in the modern NBA because they have two great shooters, two great playmakers and nobody you can help off of. Put a player like Rodman in that offense and the entire dynamic changes, and not for the better.

I agree that Rodman fit the Bulls to perfection, but that does not mean he would fit other teams. Look at what happened in San Antonio and Dallas. The Bulls had the perfect situation to maximize Rodman's talents and perhaps the only coach who was capable of utilizing Rodman without allowing all the antics to be a distraction.

Rodman's career in Detroit cannot and should not be considered here. He was a completely different person at that point in his career.

Bullshit.. If you throw in Rodman on Golden St right now they would be fine on offense. You telling me that GS state doesn't have enough offense to win without Draymond? That team is stacked on offense. Adding Rodman only helps the defense and rebounding. GS would still find ways to score.

Do you understand how getting stops creates offense? Goes on runs?

This is about as stupid as you saying "it was easier for Rodman to play D back then because he could get more physical"... Against Shaq? Shaun Kemp? Barkley? Karl Malone? Yeah that was easy I'm sure.

And you continue to spew Bullshit that Rodman wasn't as good on the Bulls as he was on the Pistons. Go look at who has the Finals record for offensive boards in a game and when. Go look at who Rodman guarded in the '96 & '98 Finals. Those type of players are not even in the NBA anymore.

 

[SJ76]

Are you sure?

It was more of who he guarded. He guarded Shaq. Put Rodman at the 4 or 5, it doesn't matter. His role is still the same. He's not an option on offense unless he's wide open under the basket.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

So what are the metrics that are being used to determine that Green >= Rodman? It can't be rebounding.

 

[SJ76]

Ok so looking at GS stat sheet, I see how valuable Draymond is. He plays the most minutes of anyone on the team and GS really doesn't even have another option at PF. Didn't realize he was averaging 7+ assists too - So I would have to take back my rant and say replacing Rodman with Draymond ain't gonna be good for GS. They do have a lot of scorers around them, but he's pretty crucial to their team.

Now he's definitely not a better rebounder lb for lb than Rodman, because honestly no one ever in the history of the NBA is... Better defensive player? That has yet to be determined. Rodman has plenty of trophies to back up his cause and Draymond plays in a different style of bball and doesn't guard the caliber of players that Rodman did..

 

[SJ76]

So what are the metrics that are being used to determine that Green >= Rodman? It can't be rebounding.

It's so hard to compare different eras really. I think defensively they can be compared somewhat, but in every other category they are pretty different.

 

[LAD]

No. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Rodman was deserving, but you can't say that Rodman is a better defender because he has more awards. Awards are subjective and Draymond is deserving too.

I can agree they are subjective when we're talking about one, maybe two. But but when a person has more than 10-all in the same category-hard to say those are subjective.

 

[LAD]

Drummond is nothing like Rodman.

Do you really think that the Warriors offense would not be impacted by replacing Bogut for Rodman? Because a player "used for defense and rebounding only", that does not mean that his presence won't hurt the offense.

But honestly, if you can't see why that is true, then I am wasting my time with this conversation. You may follow the game and have statistical knowledge, but that is not the same as understanding how it works.

If Bogut were a DOMINATING center, like Shaq was for example, then you might have a point. But that isn't the case here. If you can't understand that then it might be you who's having a hard time understanding how it works.

 

[tlance]

Rodman is a much better rebounder. He is arguably the best rebounder of all time. Green is a very good rebounder though.

I am not saying Green is a better defensive player, but they are comparable on that end. I have not seen any advanced metrics from the Rodman era, so I have no idea how that would shake out. All I know is that Green is the best PF defender today (I think he is best overall in the NBA) and Rodman was the best PF defender in the 90s.

GS runs their entire offense through Green and Curry, so they would be much worse overall if they had Rodman instead of Green. They would still be a good offensive team, but they would not be the best in the league. Would Rodman generate enough extra possessions to make up for Green's offense? I find that highly unlikely.

Last thing I will say, Draymond is a legit MVP candidate this year. I expect him to finish top 5 in MVP voting (obviously he won't win). Rodman was never remotely close to being considered an MVP candidate.

 

[CitySushi]

Ok so looking at GS stat sheet, I see how valuable Draymond is. He plays the most minutes of anyone on the team and GS really doesn't even have another option at PF. Didn't realize he was averaging 7+ assists too - So I would have to take back my rant and say replacing Rodman with Draymond ain't gonna be good for GS. They do have a lot of scorers around them, but he's pretty crucial to their team.

Now he's definitely not a better rebounder lb for lb than Rodman, because honestly no one ever in the history of the NBA is... Better defensive player? That has yet to be determined. Rodman has plenty of trophies to back up his cause and Draymond plays in a different style of bball and doesn't guard the caliber of players that Rodman did..

100% agree with everything in there.

 

[tlance]

If Bogut were a DOMINATING center, like Shaq was for example, then you might have a point. But that isn't the case here. If you can't understand that then it might be you who's having a hard time understanding how it works.

They don't need a dominating center. Bogut is absolutely perfect for them, and you are trying to replace him for a specialist with a very specific skill set. Bogut plays great post defense, rebounds well, is one of the best passing bigs in the league and he offers a huge size advantage over Rodman. As great as Rodman was defensively, Bogut is pretty damn good too, and the ideal fit for what they need. Rodman would not have been because he does not have as diverse a skill set.

The '96 Bulls are widely considered the greatest team ever, and they had Luc Longley at center. Bogut is a lot better than Longley. You don't need hall of famers at every position to have a great team. Sometimes, less is more.

 

[LAD]

Ok so looking at GS stat sheet, I see how valuable Draymond is. He plays the most minutes of anyone on the team and GS really doesn't even have another option at PF. Didn't realize he was averaging 7+ assists too - So I would have to take back my rant and say replacing Rodman with Draymond ain't gonna be good for GS. They do have a lot of scorers around them, but he's pretty crucial to their team.

Now he's definitely not a better rebounder lb for lb than Rodman, because honestly no one ever in the history of the NBA is... Better defensive player? That has yet to be determined. Rodman has plenty of trophies to back up his cause and Draymond plays in a different style of bball and doesn't guard the caliber of players that Rodman did..

This is why i said if they had them BOTH that would be unfair to all the other teams in the league.

 

[LAD]

Rodman is a much better rebounder. He is arguably the best rebounder of all time. Green is a very good rebounder though.

I am not saying Green is a better defensive player, but they are comparable on that end. I have not seen any advanced metrics from the Rodman era, so I have no idea how that would shake out. All I know is that Green is the best PF defender today (I think he is best overall in the NBA) and Rodman was the best PF defender in the 90s.

GS runs their entire offense through Green and Curry, so they would be much worse overall if they had Rodman instead of Green. They would still be a good offensive team, but they would not be the best in the league. Would Rodman generate enough extra possessions to make up for Green's offense? I find that highly unlikely.

Last thing I will say, Draymond is a legit MVP candidate this year. I expect him to finish top 5 in MVP voting (obviously he won't win). Rodman was never remotely close to being considered an MVP candidate.

Who suggested Rodman to replace Green? I said Rodman AND Dray.