1996 Bulls and the 2016 GSW

[LAD]

Golden State only needs to go 31-5 the rest of the way to break the Bulls the record. They appear to want to do this. I don't see them slowing down towards the end of the season to preserve themselves for the playoffs.

And during the months of March & April only have a handful of road games. Majority of the games are at home for them.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Everyone references the hand-check rule to show why Jordan would score 50 points a game today.

But everyone forgets that Zone Defense is now legal, whereas it wasn't years ago. Today it makes it much easier to have a big or an additional player hedge from the weakside to double. The defense today allows no hand-checks, but it allows easier access for double teams and defensive rotations, without getting called for illegal defense.

I guarantee if Jordan got the ball in the post, he would be instantly doubled or at the very least have an additional defender sag in his area.

No offense Bro, but are you saying a ZONE would stop Jordan??
"Jordan would be doubled.....", yeah, he's never been double teamed, or triple teamed lol. That's why the Bulls always had someone like Kerr or Paxson, a good little shooter who would get constant WIDE ASS OPEN looks. Come on lol

 

[UK Cowboy]

An even greater destruction of the Warriors(don't get me wrong, they are a heck of a team), would be the Showtime Lakers. Who's checking Magic, Steph or Klay? The Lakers would slap Cooper on Steph. Iggy gonna check Worthy? Yeah right......oh, and they had a decent center right, what was his name? Seriously, double, triple, Hell, put Steph on Bogut's shoulders and KAJ still might top Wilt's 100. kidding.... well, sort of

 

[CitySushi]

No offense Bro, but are you saying a ZONE would stop Jordan??
"Jordan would be doubled.....", yeah, he's never been double teamed, or triple teamed lol. That's why the Bulls always had someone like Kerr or Paxson, a good little shooter who would get constant WIDE ASS OPEN looks. Come on lol

Zone principles. Zone principles don't always include a double team but a hedge from the weakside, normally the center position. With the NBA back then, the double team always had to come hard otherwise if they were caught in the middle it was illegal defense. Now a days a center can play 5 feet away from the person their guard to hedge towards a double as long as they don't occupy the paint for more than 3 seconds. It doesn't negate Jordan's effectiveness, it just gives cause for him to think about what to do. That's really all you can do to slow down the greatest player ever.

The hard double is what gave the Kerr and Paxson so many open looks. You can effectively now create the illusion of a double without committing an extra defender. Jordan will have as many turn around jumpers as he wants. You'll live with that.

But what you also forget is that 2 positions on the court, C and PF, weren't very effective offensively. You then have Pippen who is a career 32% 3 point shooter and you'll live with giving him wide open looks from 3 over Kerr or Paxson.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Zone principles. Zone principles don't always include a double team but a hedge from the weakside, normally the center position. With the NBA back then, the double team always had to come hard otherwise if they were caught in the middle it was illegal defense. Now a days a center can play 5 feet away from the person their guard to hedge towards a double as long as they don't occupy the paint for more than 3 seconds. It doesn't negate Jordan's effectiveness, it just gives cause for him to think about what to do. That's really all you can do to slow down the greatest player ever.

The hard double is what gave the Kerr and Paxson so many open looks. You can effectively now create the illusion of a double without committing an extra defender. Jordan will have as many turn around jumpers as he wants. You'll live with that.

But what you also forget is that 2 positions on the court, C and PF, weren't very effective offensively. You then have Pippen who is a career 32% 3 point shooter and you'll live with giving him wide open looks from 3 over Kerr or Paxson.

Just a guess....you're under 40?

 

[Hambombs]

Didn't matter if Jordan was tripled or doubled he would still score

 

[CitySushi]

Just a guess....you're under 40?

Yes. But I also watched Jordan play in his prime and still revere him as the greatest player to ever play. Does that negate any of my points?

 

[UK Cowboy]

Yes. But I also watched Jordan play in his prime and still revere him as the greatest player to ever play. Does that negate any of my points?

Not at all, I just figured that if you saw him play, you'd know the thought of a zone stopping him is absurd

 

[CitySushi]

Not at all, I just figured that if you saw him play, you'd know the thought of a zone stopping him is absurd

I mean if your argument is basically "LOL Jordan would just kill them", I mean, I can't really argue against that.

I saw Jordan play and he was unstoppable force. I haven't said otherwise. What I said is that you can only try to change it up and give him looks, which is now allowable in today's NBA, which wasn't allowed in Jordan's era.

Also you're hung up on the Zone defense, when in fact I'm not referring to a zone defense. It's the zone principles, in being able to defend in space without having to be simultaneously guarding another player.

I agree, there is no way a zone defense could stop him. But I'm not talking about a zone defense..

 

[lakersrule]

I mean if your argument is basically "LOL Jordan would just kill them", I mean, I can't really argue against that.

I saw Jordan play and he was unstoppable force. I haven't said otherwise. What I said is that you can only try to change it up and give him looks, which is now allowable in today's NBA, which wasn't allowed in Jordan's era.

Also you're hung up on the Zone defense, when in fact I'm not referring to a zone defense. It's the zone principles, in being able to defend in space without having to be simultaneously guarding another player.

I agree, there is no way a zone defense could stop him. But I'm not talking about a zone defense..

The only recent team that I can think of that effectively used zone principles to neutralize an elite dominant player was the 07-08 Celtics. They effectively neutralized not only Lebron but Kobe on their way to the title. GS has a very good defense, but I don't think it is anywhere near as good as that Celtic's squad. That was something special.

 

[CitySushi]

The only recent team that I can think of that effectively used zone principles to neutralize an elite dominant player was the 07-08 Celtics. They effectively neutralized not only Lebron but Kobe on their way to the title. GS has a very good defense, but I don't think it is anywhere near as good as that Celtic's squad. That was something special.

The Mavericks also did this against Lebron when they won the Championship. The Warriors defense is far superior to the Mavs defense.

 

[lakersrule]

The Mavericks also did this against Lebron when they won the Championship. The Warriors defense is far superior to the Mavs defense.

Dallas played pretty good defense that season.

 

[CitySushi]

Dallas played pretty good defense that season.

Yeah my main point was that it's not a far fetched idea. I did have those two teams in my back pocket though as teams that employed some zone principles to stop certain players.

Jordan is the best player to ever play. You're not going to stop him. The best chance you have is to disrupt him as best you can or throw different looks at him defensively. What I was just trying to get across was in today's NBA, there's much more flexibility to do so.

 

[lakersrule]

Yeah my main point was that it's not a far fetched idea. I did have those two teams in my back pocket though as teams that employed some zone principles to stop certain players.

Jordan is the best player to ever play. You're not going to stop him. The best chance you have is to disrupt him as best you can or throw different looks at him defensively. What I was just trying to get across was in today's NBA, there's much more flexibility to do so.

 

[SJ76]

I'm not talking about offense I'm talking about defense. They just shut down Cleveland, bulls and spurs

They did. It's also January. Be interesting to see how this plays out come April or May. I know Jimmy Butler looked like dog shit in that game and Cleveland just got ran off the court. The effort was pathetic. Didn't see the Spurs game.

 

[gordontrue]

I think Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time.

But in a lot of ways his reputation today exceeds the reality. The dude was awesome but he wasn't perfect. Watch an old game - even one of his great games (I have every Bulls Finals Game on DVD) - and you're almost let down just because of how bloated the legend of Michael has become.

 

[SJ76]

Zone principles. Zone principles don't always include a double team but a hedge from the weakside, normally the center position. With the NBA back then, the double team always had to come hard otherwise if they were caught in the middle it was illegal defense. Now a days a center can play 5 feet away from the person their guard to hedge towards a double as long as they don't occupy the paint for more than 3 seconds. It doesn't negate Jordan's effectiveness, it just gives cause for him to think about what to do. That's really all you can do to slow down the greatest player ever.

The hard double is what gave the Kerr and Paxson so many open looks. You can effectively now create the illusion of a double without committing an extra defender. Jordan will have as many turn around jumpers as he wants. You'll live with that.

But what you also forget is that 2 positions on the court, C and PF, weren't very effective offensively. You then have Pippen who is a career 32% 3 point shooter and you'll live with giving him wide open looks from 3 over Kerr or Paxson.

If you zone the Bulls, they could eat you alive from the outside + Jordan knew how to penetrate the gap + Pippen knew how to slash. The triangle with those players would be just fine.

+ you hardly ever see anyone playing a zone against Lebron. NBA is too lazy and too much ISO

 

[SJ76]

I think Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time.

But in a lot of ways his reputation today exceeds the reality. The dude was awesome but he wasn't perfect. Watch an old game - even one of his great games (I have every Bulls Finals Game on DVD) - and you're almost let down just because of how bloated the legend of Michael has become.

Yet when is the last time you've see a player in the NBA Finals put up 35 in the first half?

View attachment 83529

 

[gordontrue]

Yet when is the last time you've see a player in the NBA Finals put up 35 in the first half?

View attachment 83529

Don't get me wrong. He's the best ever. That's not light praise. That means he did things that no else ever did. That means he did things that others did but did it better.

I just think the legend of Michael can get carried away a little bit sometimes. Maybe that's not even a bad thing, I don't know.

 

[CitySushi]

If you zone the Bulls, they could eat you alive from the outside + Jordan knew how to penetrate the gap + Pippen knew how to slash. The triangle with those players would be just fine.

+ you hardly ever see anyone playing a zone against Lebron. NBA is too lazy and too much ISO

You probably didn't read the thread. I didn't say a zone against him. I said Zone principles allow for different defensive looks you can throw at him that weren't available back then because of the illegal defense rules.

I spoke on this at length, but the gist of what I said is this:

1) Jordan is unstoppable
2) No more illegal defense means that additional defenders can hedge without committing to a double team.
3) Defense schemes are much more flexible under today's NBA rules.
4) Only way to slow down the greatest player off all time is to throw different looks at him.

At no point did I ever say a Zone Defense could stop Jordan. Zone Principles is completely different in terminology and purpose.