157.1

[clyde_carbon]

LOL

 

[ViperVisor]

What is laughable is your feeling that a QB that will gun it will open things up for an offense as if it puts some magical 3pt line on the field a defense has to defend.

That ability doesn't appear to of done a lot for Cutler.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Why would I want Smith to fail? And what do you mean I told you so? I never followed college football in 2004/05 and didn't really have a strong opinion about either Alex or Aaron. The only real reason I wanted Aaron was that he was a local guy, but I never held that against Alex. I even defended Alex for 3 or 4 years on the old ESPN boards. Unlike you, though, I've came to realize that - and this might be unfathomable to you - he's just not that good.

smith is somewhere in the 10-15 area when it comes to the top qb's in the league. that should count as 'good'.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Everything equal I'm taking the following QBs over Smith:

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Eli Manning
Matt Ryan
Matthew Stafford
Aaron Rodgers
Jay Cutler
Joe Flacco
RG3
Andrew Luck
Andy Dalton
Ben Roethlisberger
Matt Schaub
Philip Rivers

Maybe even Tony Romo.

That's AT LEAST 15 QBs. That's mediocre. Middle of the line starter.

 

[MHSL82]

smith is somewhere in the 10-15 area when it comes to the top qb's in the league. that should count as 'good'.

Rating is a flawed statistic and statistics don't tell the whole story, but this can be used as a reference if you'd like. For QBs who've passed at least 200 times since the start of 2011, here are the ratings:

1. Aaron Rodgers 117.1
2. Peyton Manning 109.0
3. Drew Brees 104.9
4. Tom Brady 103.9
5. Robert Griffin III 97.3
6. Matt Ryan 95.6
7. Matt Schaub 95.2
8. Alex Smith 94.4
9. Tony Romo 94.2
10. Ben Roethlisberger 93.97
11. Matthew Stafford 92.4
12. Eli Manning 91.6
13. Phillip Rivers 88.0
14. Matt Moore 87.6
15. Kevin Kolb 83.2
16. Jay Cutler 82.9
17. Carson Palmer 82.9
18. Andy Dalton 82.7
19. Matt Hasselbeck 82.7
20. Michael Vick 82.4
21. Russell Wilson 82.4
22. Joe Flacco 81.9
23. Cam Newton 81.8
24. Ryan Fitzpatrick 81.0
25. Josh Freeman 79.99
26. Tarvaris Jackson 79.2
27. Kyle Orton 77.8
28. Christian Ponder 77.6
29. Mark Sanchez 76.4
30. Ryan Tannehill 75.8
31. Sam Bradford 75.4
32. Colt McCoy 74.6
33. Andrew Luck 74.6
34. Matt Cassell 73.0
35. Tim Tebow 72.95
36. Rex Grossman 72.4
37. Brandon Weeden 70.8
38. Blaine Gabbert 69.6
39. John Skelton 67.5
40. Curtis Painter 66.6

 

[Flyingiguana]

Everything equal I'm taking the following QBs over Smith:

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Eli Manning
Matt Ryan
Matthew Stafford
Aaron Rodgers
Jay Cutler
Joe Flacco
RG3
Andrew Luck
Andy Dalton
Ben Roethlisberger
Matt Schaub
Philip Rivers

Maybe even Tony Romo.

That's AT LEAST 15 QBs. That's mediocre. Middle of the line starter.

smith is outplaying cutler, dalton and flacco by a mile. rivers forgot how to play qb the last 2 seasons. so now we're closer to 10.

 

[ViperVisor]

Things aren't equal. We are talking the NFL right now in 2012 and you are taking rookies?

Griffin you could argue cause he is preforming.

Luck has the look and it shows clearly sometimes but is 8-8 in td and int while tied with Gabbert in comp%. Had 2 INTs dropped for him just last week.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Things aren't equal. We are talking the NFL right now in 2012 and you are taking rookies?

Griffin you could argue cause he is preforming.

Luck has the look and it shows clearly sometimes but is 8-8 in td and int while tied with Gabbert in comp%. Had 2 INTs dropped for him just last week.

he just had to fill out the 15..

 

[ViperVisor]

I'd for sure take 6 guys
Then a mix of 5 others guys + Smith. Don't have the info or experience to clearly sort who is better or worse.
If I put Smith in the middle of that pack, he is 10th

Seems about right to me.

Why be ridiculous and claim "AT LEAST 15" as if you could maybe get to 20 or so?

If the 10th-ish best QB is no better than a 10% shot to win a Super Bowl with this team we got, go with that. Say having the 5th best QB would double our chances.

You could be right but so what.
How do you put the toothpaste back in the tube?

Go back to 2009 and make sure Alex Smith plays like the non NFL starter QB you say he is? How do we manage to get a pick higher than the 1 loss Rams?

How in your mind do you Michael J. Fox us out of where we are today?

Kaep? A huge maybe, see Cam Newton or Andrew Luck to show young QB Up and Downs.

Andy Dalton? You were damn sure to point out the WRs doing their share of the work Monday. What the hell do you think AJ Green does? That dude is a BALLER.

Whoever else? Draw something up for us.

 

[-AC-]

Ask yourself this- Out of the players that Clyde listed, how many of those teams would trade their current QB for Alex Smith?

To add to that, how much action did Smith get as a free agent this last off-season?

We all hope Smith can get it done during the playoffs, and want him to do well. But if you're trying to elevate his status by finding falts with other QB's to make your arument, well you're just reaching. Every QB has different surrounding's. And Smith's surrounding's doesn't get much better. So atleast consider that when you try to play every angle to get Smith close to the top 10 (in your own minds)...

 

[Bemular]

smith is outplaying cutler, dalton and flacco by a mile. rivers forgot how to play qb the last 2 seasons. so now we're closer to 10.

All four of those QB's are struggling because of injuries but are absolutely better than Alex - Now we are back to 15. Furthermore, as soon as about 3-7 other QB's have healed they will be better than Smith as well.

 

[NinerSickness]

rivers forgot how to play qb the last 2 seasons. so now we're closer to 10.

Rivers did not forget how to play QB. His offense is simply a disaster. He's in a similar position as Cutler. Crappy OL (Cutler moreso), bad WRs, a shell-of-his-former-self TE and a bad running game (tied for 19th in YPA). He's trying to make chicken soup out of chicken poop, and it's not working. They need an offensive overhaul just like Arizona, Chicago (mostly OL), St. Louis, NYJ (who also need to get healthy), Jacksonville & a few others.

 

[Bemular]

The QB rating is a flawed statistic and statistics don't tell the whole story

While the QBr is an imperfect measurement it is equally imperfect for all QB's. Its biggest flaw is how some F'tards use it to imply QB skill and ability.

 

[MHSL82]

While the QBr is an imperfect measurement it is equally imperfect for all QB's. Its biggest flaw is how some F'tards use it to imply QB skill and ability.

I have used a QB rating calculator before and found certain things counter-intuitive that show its problems. I find that just by watching QBs, you get a better idea who is better than the others and I think seeing statistics like third down conversions, red zone conversion rate, etc. are much more helpful in determining a QBs effect on the game/team. The traditional QB rating is familiar and accessible more than others, so I do look at them.

What do you think about ESPN's QBR compared to and independant of the traditional QB rating?

 

[NinerSickness]

What do you think about ESPN's QBR compared to and independant of the traditional QB rating?

BSPN's QBR is the stupidest idea since the carpool lane.

 

[Kinzu]

Rivers did not forget how to play QB. His offense is simply a disaster. He's in a similar position as Cutler. Crappy OL (Cutler moreso), bad WRs, a shell-of-his-former-self TE and a bad running game (tied for 19th in YPA). He's trying to make chicken soup out of chicken poop, and it's not working. They need an offensive overhaul just like Arizona, Chicago (mostly OL), St. Louis, NYJ (who also need to get healthy), Jacksonville & a few others.

Here is the funny thing about this argument. You could say the same thing about Alex Smith and the majority of the 49er teams he was the Quarterback for after we drafted him.

Bad Offensive Line - check
No Playmakers - check
Horrible Receivers - check

The only saving grace was the emergence of Frank Gore in his 2nd season, but the Oline and Receivers were still crap. Vernon Davis was no stud his first few years either.

Everyone wants to point to how Alex is not elite because he couldn't turn scrubs into Pro-Bowlers, but then flip that around and say guys like Cutler and Rivers are elite it's just the scrubs around them. How does that make any sense? Sounds to me like all 3 of them needed the talent around them to be successful NFL Quarterbacks. Alex has the weapons and offensive line now and it's showing in his play. Rivers and Cutler do not have the same level of talent surrounding them as they did a few years ago and it's also showing.

I don't know sounds to me like first impressions carry a lot of weight. Alex sucked therefore he always sucks. Cutler and Rivers are elite therefore they are always elite. Yeah, that sounds like some flawed logic to me. All it takes is a look at their stat sheets over the last 2 years to see how bad that train of thought crashes.

 

[clyde_carbon]

smith is outplaying cutler, dalton and flacco by a mile. rivers forgot how to play qb the last 2 seasons. so now we're closer to 10.

Smith is playing with the best supporting cast in the league.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Things aren't equal. We are talking the NFL right now in 2012 and you are taking rookies?

Griffin you could argue cause he is preforming.

Luck has the look and it shows clearly sometimes but is 8-8 in td and int while tied with Gabbert in comp%. Had 2 INTs dropped for him just last week.

Of course things aren't equal. Jay Cutler is playing behind the worst OL in the league. Alex Smith if playing behind the best. I'm still taking Cutler over Smith.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Here is the funny thing about this argument. You could say the same thing about Alex Smith and the majority of the 49er teams he was the Quarterback for after we drafted him.

Bad Offensive Line - check
No Playmakers - check
Horrible Receivers - check

The only saving grace was the emergence of Frank Gore in his 2nd season, but the Oline and Receivers were still crap. Vernon Davis was no stud his first few years either.

Everyone wants to point to how Alex is not elite because he couldn't turn scrubs into Pro-Bowlers, but then flip that around and say guys like Cutler and Rivers are elite it's just the scrubs around them. How does that make any sense? Sounds to me like all 3 of them needed the talent around them to be successful NFL Quarterbacks. Alex has the weapons and offensive line now and it's showing in his play. Rivers and Cutler do not have the same level of talent surrounding them as they did a few years ago and it's also showing.

I don't know sounds to me like first impressions carry a lot of weight. Alex sucked therefore he always sucks. Cutler and Rivers are elite therefore they are always elite. Yeah, that sounds like some flawed logic to me. All it takes is a look at their stat sheets over the last 2 years to see how bad that train of thought crashes.

Alex Smith is not elite because he's very limited as a QB. A fucking simple eye-ball test can see that.

I have a strong feeling all you hypersensitive pussies will be putting your tails behind your legs by seasons end.

 

[Flyingiguana]

All four of those QB's are struggling because of injuries but are absolutely better than Alex - Now we are back to 15. Furthermore, as soon as about 3-7 other QB's have healed they will be better than Smith as well.

ok u give them a pass, but smith sprains his finger plays hurt for two games yet u use that against him...