157.1

[ViperVisor]

Tony is also almost 40 years old. He's still a reliable target, but if you think he's the mismatch that Vernon Davis is you're delusional.

He is not the mismatch, true. They are different types at this point.

40yo Jerry Rice wasn't nearly the mismatch that Ashley Lelie or Antonio Bryant were.
But Rice got the job done.

 

[clyde_carbon]

He is not the mismatch, true. They are different types at this point.

40yo Jerry Rice wasn't nearly the mismatch that Ashley Lelie or Antonio Bryant were.
But Rice got the job done.

I'm not arguing Tony G. doesn't get the job done. I'm arguing that Vernon Davis, today, is the better TE. How you are arguing against that is beyond me.

But you'll say and claim anything to pimp your boy.

 

[clyde_carbon]

FO gives Vernon Davis the highest DVOA of all TEs. Tony Gonzalez is 7th. PFF also ranks Vernon Davis as the second best TE in the league, behind only Gronk.

Leave it up to a blabbering idiot to take Tony G today over Vernon Davis today.

 

[ViperVisor]

I'm not arguing Tony G. doesn't get the job done. I'm arguing that Vernon Davis, today, is the better TE. How you are arguing against that is beyond me.

But you'll say and claim anything to pimp your boy.

You have argued for outlandish on the surface things yourself mate.

But look below the surface. Tony G. is still doing work.

The problem is not that I could be wrong and Vernon is actually better if we could cut him in half in count the rings. I might be, so what.

I never said I'd take Gonzales over Vernon today. And you didn't mention PFF has Gonzo as the other Pro Bowl TE in the NFC.

The problem is on Alex Smith you are an Extreme Outlier. You don't back off at letting Alex Smith have the label of Good. The approx 10th best QB in the NFL now is still too much for you.

 

[imac_21]

Reasonable stuff you happen to not like isn't crap.

Jumpman Vernon Davis is great. But he has his strengths and weaknesses.

Tony's long is 25 and only 2 total 20+ over 46 catches
Vernon has 9 of his 25 20+

But Tony is still the guy 2nd only to Rice in catches.
And is still that 6-5 target in the endzone.

See you have very little credibility to call other people's posts with no numbers or links backing it. Your chips were pushed out onto the board long ago.

So since Rice is first in catches, does that mean that he's as good as, say, Julio Jones?

 

[clyde_carbon]

You have argued for outlandish on the surface things yourself mate.

But look below the surface. Tony G. is still doing work.

The problem is not that I could be wrong and Vernon is actually better if we could cut him in half in count the rings. I might be, so what.

The problem is on Alex Smith you are an Extreme Outlier. You don't back off at letting Alex Smith have the label of Good. The approx 10th best QB in the NFL now is still too much for you.

Obviously you're still lost. No one is questioning whether Tony G is or isn't doing work. The original argument was that the 49ers have a better TE than the Falcons. That's not saying that Gonzalez is done or is terrible, it just saying that Vernon Davis, today, is better than Tony Gonzalez.

This ridiculous trend of downplaying Alex Smith's supporting cast is getting tiresome. It's obvious that you're just an Alex Smith fan, not a 49ers fan at this point.

 

[clyde_carbon]

The problem is on Alex Smith you are an Extreme Outlier. You don't back off at letting Alex Smith have the label of Good. The approx 10th best QB in the NFL now is still too much for you.

I'm not gonna apologize for not thinking Alex Smith is the 10th best QB in the league. I don't. QB rating means nothing to me. Inflated stats - and Alex's are inflated - mean nothing to me. I think he's a mediocre starting QB that's in absolutely the perfect situation for him both schematically and from a talent standpoint. I think the situation is making him look better, I don't think he's making the situation he's in better. It's as simple as that.

If you disagree with that fine. But I'm NOT changing my opinion. I still see a lot of the same flaws I've always seen from Alex, just that they are much better disguised by the coaching staff.

 

[ViperVisor]

This ridiculous trend of downplaying Alex Smith's supporting cast is getting tiresome. It's obvious that you're just an Alex Smith fan, not a 49ers fan at this point.

Look in the mirror. 'This ridiculous trend of downplaying Alex Smith is getting tiresome.'

The cast is better than it has been and Smith is playing better.
Who is saying Smith has dragged these bums along?

Smith is pretty much what he is. Familiarity of a playbook and broader system has helped and the extra game experience as well. You almost never change drastically after you had a full go round.

The not approx 10th best in the NFL stuff also mattered. We had Da U-universal solider Frank Gore but that was it. What the hell else was making even half the other teams jealous? Our WRs? Our O-Line? Our OC? Our HC?

Those things are all improved. The offense improved in '11 it has improved this year. If it hadn't you would really have something for teh Alex Smith suxorz hypothesis. But that hasn't been the case so far.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Look in the mirror. 'This ridiculous trend of downplaying Alex Smith is getting tiresome.'

The cast is better than it has been and Smith is playing better.
Who is saying Smith has dragged these bums along?

Smith is pretty much what he is. Familiarity of a playbook and broader system has helped and the extra game experience as well. You almost never change drastically after you had a full go round.

The not approx 10th best in the NFL stuff also mattered. We had Da U-universal solider Frank Gore but that was it. What the hell else was making even half the other teams jealous? Our WRs? Our O-Line? Our OC? Our HC?

Those things are all improved. The offense improved in '11 it has improved this year. If it hadn't you would really have something for teh Alex Smith suxorz hypothesis. But that hasn't been the case so far.

I don't think saying Alex Smith is a mediocre starter, around the 15th or so best starter, or a middle of the line QB is downplaying him. You and your circle jerk won't take anything less than "good" as an acceptable label on Alex.

I don't believe he makes everyone around him better. He doesn't have outstanding pocket presence and tends to hold the ball longer than a lot of QBs, so he doesn't help the OL in that area. He's not a consistent threat to drive the ball down the field to push the safeties farther to help the running game. He's not an improvisor, and tends to fold when a play is not perfect or breaks down. Being 28th in the league in attempts isn't forcing opposing defensive coordinators to game plan around his abilities.

What exactly does Alex Smith do that makes people go, "You know, without him this player won't be as good or this play won't work"?

 

[ViperVisor]

Smith sack time 2009-2011 was a tick shorter than avg
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Under Pressure: Standard Sack Deviation

Did Rice make Joe and Steve better or was it the reverse?

Was it really just Bill Walsh and the West Coast offense that made the players look good?

 

[clyde_carbon]

Smith sack time in 2011 was a tick shorter than avg
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Under Pressure: Standard Sack Deviation

Did Rice make Joe and Steve better or was it the reverse?

Was it really just Bill Walsh and the West Coast offense that made the players look good?

I think the avg. is better because Alex Smith is a bit extreme when it comes to holding the ball too long, and not holding the ball long enough. When he holds it too late he's taking unnecessary sacks, but we've also see him throw it too quick to his first read or the easy read without actually taking the time to scan his progressions.

I asked you a question. Which play doesn't work without Alex Smith? Which player on our offense isn't the same player without Alex Smith? How many plays has Alex Smith made and you've said, "Wow, not many QBs can make that play"? Colin Kaepernick has already made a few plays where I thought that very few QBs in the league can make.

 

[Bemular]

I don't think saying Alex Smith is a mediocre starter, around the 15th or so best starter, or a middle of the line QB is downplaying him. You and your circle jerk won't take anything less than "good" as an acceptable label on Alex.

I don't believe he makes everyone around him better. He doesn't have outstanding pocket presence and tends to hold the ball longer than a lot of QBs, so he doesn't help the OL in that area. He's not a consistent threat to drive the ball down the field to push the safeties farther to help the running game. He's not an improvisor, and tends to fold when a play is not perfect or breaks down. Being 28th in the league in attempts isn't forcing opposing defensive coordinators to game plan around his abilities.

What exactly does Alex Smith do that makes people go, "You know, without him this player won't be as good or this play won't work"?

Your list is 1/2 as long as it could be - Last year Smith threw the second fewest passes of any other starting QB and this year it is the same story - We don't throw passes in our offense for a reason - our QB is our biggest offensive liability - not our biggest offensive threat as it should be.

This year we loaded up with a 275+ YPG corp of WR's and yet we still have a ~200 YPG QB – Awesome!

 

[clyde_carbon]

Your list is 1/2 as long as it could be - Last year Smith threw the second fewest passes of any other starting QB and this year it is the same story - We don't throw passes in our offense for a reason - our QB is our biggest offensive liability - not our biggest offensive threat as it should be.

This year we loaded up with a 275+ YPG corp of WR's and yet we still have a ~200 YPG QB – Awesome!

I think many people here have forgotten what good, consistent QB play looks like. A QB that creates something out of nothing, that elevates the play of his surrounding cast, and one that forces opposing DCs to game plan around him, not everybody else first.

Now obviously those types don't grow on trees, and as long as Alex Smith is winning he should start (this year), but people are delusional if they don't think Alex Smith is maxed out potential/ability wise.

 

[ViperVisor]

Last year it was all about 29th in yards. Yes, were also 31st in attempts.

This year Smith is 28th in attempts and 23rd in yards.

We have pretty well controlled 5 of the games from the start. Not a lot of passes needed. And our coach is Jim Harbaugh. Not exactly breaking news.

We got NO and NE coming up which had been killed by the pass. We'll see.

And I watched Miami's pass D and it was terrible today. They are coming up too.

 

[Bemular]

I think many people here have forgotten what good, consistent QB play looks like. A QB that creates something out of nothing, that elevates the play of his surrounding cast, and one that forces opposing DCs to game plan around him, not everybody else first.

Now obviously those types don't grow on trees, and as long as Alex Smith is winning he should start (this year), but people are delusional if they don't think Alex Smith is maxed out potential/ability wise.

Ex-actly! And as Smith is maxed out so is our entire passing offense; with the exception of course of unsustainable YAC numbers.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Last year it was all about 29th in yards. Yes, were also 31st in attempts.

This year Smith is 28th in attempts and 23rd in yards.

We have pretty well controlled 5 of the games from the start. Not a lot of passes needed. And our coach is Jim Harbaugh. Not exactly breaking news.

We got NO and NE coming up which had been killed by the pass. We'll see.

And I watched Miami's pass D and it was terrible today. They are coming up too.

The notion that we're not passing a lot because we've controlled most games, and not because of who our QB is absolute nonsense. It's also a testament to Alex's supporting cast, which you don't seem to think so highly of. Regardless, Alex Smith has struggled pretty much every time this season when the opposing team has had a lead.

 

[ViperVisor]

Ex-actly! And as Smith is maxed out so is our entire passing offense; with the exception of course of unsustainable YAC numbers.

YAC is 36% of our pass yards

last year it was 45%

 

[ViperVisor]

Alex Smith has struggled pretty much every time this season when the opposing team has had a lead.

That is the 2nd half against MIN and 3Q of Giants.

Last year his numbers were actually slightly better when trailing
Alex Smith Stats, Splits - San Francisco 49ers - ESPN

 

[clyde_carbon]

That is the 2nd half against MIN and 3Q of Giants.

Last year his numbers were actually slightly better when trailing
Alex Smith Stats, Splits - San Francisco 49ers - ESPN

Yes, it was the 2nd half of Minnesota and against the Giants. Very observant of you.

 

[huskers1217]

hmmm..no boobs here.

carry on