'14 AL Central Smack Talk Thread

[TrustMeIamRight]

While Dombrowski deserves credit for his work on these deals, it would be bad to overlook the flip side. That being the fact that he pretty well fleeced other stupid G.M's in the process.

That is the gamble you take when trading for "prospects". It is the reason I have problem at all with Detroit trading away "prospects", because you never know what you are going to get.

The best part about many of the deals he has made is -- he has traded for players who are under team control for so long. I believe Scherzer and Jackson were under team control for 6 years when we received them. Fister had 4 years of team control. So by trading for these players, they get them on the cheap for many years, while they are also MLB ready talent.

The only gamble in the trade was AJax, as he hadn't played in the MLB, but he has been a pleasant surprise for the Tigers, though his strikeouts are maddening at times. I think he could have a big year if Detroit moves Kinsler to lead off and move Jackson down to the 8 or 9 spot, as he won't have the pressure of batting at the top of the order anymore.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Now that I have 2 Royals fans here, has there ever been a time when the Royals went out and got the consensus #1 free agent avail?

NOT trying to be a smart ass, but I just can't think of them ever doing it.

Not in recent memory, nor does it matter, there were better options and the Royals still flubbed it. 4 years (last year being a mutual option) for a Vargas when the goal is to make the playoffs is absurd. Granted, things have to roll your way, to say, win a WS in the first place. But betting on so many different players to either develop or turn it around seems like quackery in my mind.

 

[da55bums]

Now that I have 2 Royals fans here, has there ever been a time when the Royals went out and got the consensus #1 free agent avail?

NOT trying to be a smart ass, but I just can't think of them ever doing it.

what Hal McCrae...lol...

hold it Mark Davis, right after he won the Cy Young from the Padres I think...he flat out BOMBED.

off my head thats it...maybe David Cone

 

[BigDDude]

what Hal McCrae...lol...

hold it Mark Davis, right after he won the Cy Young from the Padres I think...he flat out BOMBED.

off my head thats it...maybe David Cone

Thank you. Not their M.O. at all. And, I think it was Davis, and,....., no wonder they don't go that route anymore.

 

[BigDDude]

That is the gamble you take when trading for "prospects". It is the reason I have problem at all with Detroit trading away "prospects", because you never know what you are going to get.

The best part about many of the deals he has made is -- he has traded for players who are under team control for so long. I believe Scherzer and Jackson were under team control for 6 years when we received them. Fister had 4 years of team control. So by trading for these players, they get them on the cheap for many years, while they are also MLB ready talent.

The only gamble in the trade was AJax, as he hadn't played in the MLB, but he has been a pleasant surprise for the Tigers, though his strikeouts are maddening at times. I think he could have a big year if Detroit moves Kinsler to lead off and move Jackson down to the 8 or 9 spot, as he won't have the pressure of batting at the top of the order anymore.

In a way, this helps illustrate why it is not very smart to judge trades after just a year or so, especially when invloving prospects.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

If Vargas is an "effective" starter ( ERA remains low presumably due to defense, luck, and some skill mixed in there for fun) then I will eat crow, but I just don't see it despite having arguably the best defense in the league to go along with a park that is bloody murder on HR's.

 

[BigDDude]

Not in recent memory, nor does it matter, there were better options and the Royals still flubbed it. 4 years (last year being a mutual option) for a Vargas when the goal is to make the playoffs is absurd. Granted, things have to roll your way, to say, win a WS in the first place. But betting on so many different players to either develop or turn it around seems like quackery in my mind.

"Not in recent memory, nor does it matter"

Well, it WAS my question, so, the answer mattered to me.

"there were better options and the Royals still flubbed it. 4 years (last year being a mutual option) for a Vargas when the goal is to make the playoffs is absurd."

Maybe they should go and get one of these other better options then also? Or, am I being unreasonable and stupid?


"But betting on so many different players to either develop or turn it around seems like quackery in my mind"


Which is why you have to strike the balance of good vetran players (and, of course, be willing and able to pay their higher salaries), and promising rookies. Looking at the Royals for the last bunch of years, They just can't or won't spend the money to make a get a core group of vets. Until they do, they may be what they are, and for a good while.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Talk to Tigers fans (or just TrustMeImGuessing)....Miggy, Fielder, Hunter, VMart only get BETTER in their 30's...

Uhhh -- Torii Hunter's best 2 years BA wise is 2012 and 2013 at .313 and .304 at the age of 36 and 37. As a matter of fact -- he had zero .300 seasons prior to the last two years. He also added 36 homeruns and 172 RBIs hitting out of the 2 hole the majority of the time. He also has played at least 140 games in 7 of 8 years from the age of 30-37.

VMart has hit .330 and .301 with Detroit at the age of 32 and 34. The .301 is truly amazing as he struggled mightily after missing a season tearing his ACL training in the off season. At 34 years old -- he hit .361 after the AS break and played 159 games. In 2 years with Detroit -- he has 26 homeruns and 186 RBI's.

Cabrera has had one year where he was 30. He only won the MVP for the 2nd year in a row.

Seeing as how Fielder isn't 30 -- he isn't part of the discussion. It was a nice attempt at trying to be a troll, but you just showed off your ignorance again, as none of the players you named in their "30's" has slowed down in the least bit.

 

[BigDDude]

If Vargas is an "effective" starter ( ERA remains low presumably due to defense, luck, and some skill mixed in there for fun) then I will eat crow, but I just don't see it despite having arguably the best defense in the league to go along with a park that is bloody murder on HR's.

I already thought this, but, by stating your willingness to admit you are wrong is a big sign that you are good people in my book. And, if you are like me, it is very easy to do, as long as it ends up being better for your fav team in the long run.

 

[da55bums]

Uhhh -- Torii Hunter's best 2 years BA wise is 2012 and 2013 at .313 and .304 at the age of 36 and 37. As a matter of fact -- he had zero .300 seasons prior to the last two years. He also added 36 homeruns and 172 RBIs hitting out of the 2 hole the majority of the time. He also has played at least 140 games in 7 of 8 years from the age of 30-37.

VMart has hit .330 and .301 with Detroit at the age of 32 and 34. The .301 is truly amazing as he struggled mightily after missing a season tearing his ACL training in the off season. At 34 years old -- he hit .361 after the AS break and played 159 games. In 2 years with Detroit -- he has 26 homeruns and 186 RBI's.

Cabrera has had one year where he was 30. He only won the MVP for the 2nd year in a row.

Seeing as how Fielder isn't 30 -- he isn't part of the discussion. It was a nice attempt at trying to be a troll, but you just showed off your ignorance again, as none of the players you named in their "30's" has slowed down in the least bit.

lol, you know what I was talking about...or should I refresh it....Miggy's 30's years and what he may do......injuries took out Vmart? and Miggy and Fielder are just hitting the injury years...anyway...it was sarcasm/joke...jarhead.

Will give you Tori is a freak of nature the games he has played in his 30's and the level he has...him and Ichiro....have to be on PED's (the last 5 words was a joke, dont go all name calling on me)
I really don't want to go down the path for the 3rd time...

your panties should be wet and less jammed up there after that very good deal by the Tigers...loosen up, the Tigers could actually win this year...have fun, enjoy the ride.

 

[da55bums]

If Vargas is an "effective" starter ( ERA remains low presumably due to defense, luck, and some skill mixed in there for fun) then I will eat crow, but I just don't see it despite having arguably the best defense in the league to go along with a park that is bloody murder on HR's.

the only way would also be to know what Hughes wanted money wise....its not a better risk if Hughes want 4 to 6 years and 12 mil a year..or whatever.

 

[Nosferatu]

Talk to Tigers fans (or just TrustMeImGuessing)....Miggy, Fielder, Hunter, VMart only get BETTER in their 30's...

Thinking maybe you can add Kinsler to that list... All are sure to have career years in '14. May as well start talking about 2015 because the Tigers got it wrapped up in '14.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

"Well, it WAS my question, so, the answer mattered to me."

Fair enough, I was rather rude in that response.

"Maybe they should go and get one of these other better options then also? Or, am I being unreasonable and stupid?"

My beef is strictly with what I feel is incompetence by the Royals FO to field a contender which they seem so certain to have (or at the very least, in Dayton's mind). In this case, even with payroll limitations, I am of the belief that Hughes is a superior FA target to Vargas and is in the same Pay grade roughly. Obviously the Royals can't sign the Cano's of the world, but I would still like to see some controlled aggression in FA where it is merited.

"Which is why you have to strike the balance of good vetran players (and, of course, be willing and able to pay their higher salaries), and promising rookies. Looking at the Royals for the last bunch of years, They just can't or won't spend the money to make a get a core group of vets. Until they do, they may be what they are, and for a good while."

Aye, ultimately, I don't think it matters either way probably if Hughes is signed compared to Vargas ( Hughes would be one of those players to develop or turn it around) it is all just incredibly frustrating to watch a team flounder endlessly into Baseball purgatory. I would rather miss the playoffs swinging instead of passively watching the opportunities pass by.

 

[da55bums]

Thinking maybe you can add Kinsler to that list... All are sure to have career years in '14. May as well start talking about 2015 because the Tigers got it wrapped up in '14.

I agree, if they get a new bullpen (they have to not make that mistake again, right?)....it could be the biggest disaster since the NYY not winning with those type of odds they will have.

 

[da55bums]

Would Choo in CF and Cain in right help you out? Maybe they might take a risk with the sticks...who knows.

lol...it would be the shocker of the last decade if Glass said, "screw this, tired of being called cheap, get that Cano kid!"......it would be one of those days you would know right where you were standing and doing...lol

 

[BigDDude]

"Well, it WAS my question, so, the answer mattered to me."

Fair enough, I was rather rude in that response.

"Maybe they should go and get one of these other better options then also? Or, am I being unreasonable and stupid?"

My beef is strictly with what I feel is incompetence by the Royals FO to field a contender which they seem so certain to have (or at the very least, in Dayton's mind). In this case, even with payroll limitations, I am of the belief that Hughes is a superior FA target to Vargas and is in the same Pay grade roughly. Obviously the Royals can't sign the Cano's of the world, but I would still like to see some controlled aggression in FA where it is merited.

"Which is why you have to strike the balance of good vetran players (and, of course, be willing and able to pay their higher salaries), and promising rookies. Looking at the Royals for the last bunch of years, They just can't or won't spend the money to make a get a core group of vets. Until they do, they may be what they are, and for a good while."

Aye, ultimately, I don't think it matters either way probably if Hughes is signed compared to Vargas ( Hughes would be one of those players to develop or turn it around) it is all just incredibly frustrating to watch a team flounder endlessly into Baseball purgatory. I would rather miss the playoffs swinging instead of passively watching the opportunities pass by.

Only a REAL fan feels this way, and still sticks around after seeing this year after year. And, just like I felt for several years until last year, I think it may be time for a more monied owner to take over in K.C.

Not that I was going to but, as I see I am at the end of my workday, I will spare how I feel that MLB needs to do and new and different vetting process to become an MLB owner, and, how the game would be better from a fan's perspective if MLB had both a salary ceiling AND floor.

Never gonna happen though.


hasta manana gents.

 

[BigDDude]

Would Choo in CF and Cain in right help you out? Maybe they might take a risk with the sticks...who knows.

Choo is a better fit in right, IMO

lol...it would be the shocker of the last decade if Glass said, "screw this, tired of being called cheap, get that Cano kid!"......it would be one of those days you would know right where you were standing and doing...lol

Just like I have been talking about. REALITY BE DAMNED!!!!!!

 

[da55bums]

Just like I have been talking about. REALITY BE DAMNED!!!!!!

"I have a dream, one day, all teams will be equal"

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

injuries took out Vmart?

Let me guess -- VMart is breaking down now, because he tore his ACL during an off season non-baseball related workout.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

In a way, this helps illustrate why it is not very smart to judge trades after just a year or so, especially when invloving prospects.

agree 100% -- detroit has been lucky up to this point, that none of the 'can't miss' prospects like Cameron Maybin (who they were calling a RH hitting Ken Griffey Jr.) and Andrew Miller (who they were calling a Randy Johnson clone). Both were top 10 prospects we traded away for Cabrera, but neither lived up to their ranking or hype.

The Fister deal -- Detroit gave up a ton of prospects -- including Francisco Martinez and Chance Ruffin, who were two of the better prospects in the Tigers organization. They also gave Seattle two players that were on the Tigers roster at times in Casper Wells and Charlie Furbush. Everyone thought it was too much to give up, but the main piece of the trade Francisco Martinez floundered with Seattle and was actually traded back to Detroit. So they basically got Fister for nothing.

Even the Infante/Anibal Sanchez deal, where Detroit gave up another top 20 prospect in Justin Turner and their top catching prospect in Rob Brantley -- neither has been overly impressive, though I think Turner will be good if he can get his control to improve.

I guess that is why Detroit fans are always happy with whatever deal Dombrowski makes, as he has shown over time that he is very good at making deals to improve the team. I don't think there is a loser in the Fielder/Kinsler trade. I don't expect Kinsler to set the world on fire, nor do I think he will replace Fielder's presence in the lineup. It just gives the Tigers a ton of flexibility, which is what they needed to make upgrades elsewhere on the team.