10 Reasons why an Appeal Overturns TB12 Suspension

[NEPatsfan]

They say the simplest answer is normally the right one. The simplest answer here is Brady likes his balls a little under the acceptable level and has been having them reduced over some time.

The more complicated is the report is flawed on this point because of not documenting which gauge was used where, people were just joking on some parts of the texts that meet our needs and were serious on others, again as we see fit, and more than one other team was lying when they made claims of balls being noticeably flatter than expected.

I'll stick with the more likely answers until proven otherwise. Nothing proposed is yet proof. Simply attempts to provide possibilities. Prove it and I'll be on board.

Shorter version, "I will just ignore anything that may prove my built in narrative wrong"

Amirite? Huh, huh?


As for the science, one side has a Nobel Laurete, and the other has a company notorious for rigging testing to reach a desired outcome.

 

[WizardHawk]

If your side would provide proof instead of possibilities I'd be more than happy to listen.

Your nobel laurete only said there was flaws in the report because of the gauges and failure to list levels etc, same 'possible' rooms for error, not proof of anything. He didn't say the science shows weather changed those balls, he said the flaws were in the procedures which means there COULD be room for it. That's not proof nor a solid conclusion. He also 'assumed' the balls tested at half time were a different temperature. So on the one hand he criticizes the refs and report for their findings in their assumptions and then makes his own. Read what he actually said before making claims about it. Might help you not look this bad next time. Just trying to help you here.

And of course that only covers one small piece of the puzzle. The simple answer still holds.

Funny that you keep using narrative when that's exactly what your side keeps posing as proof of innocence. You really need to look up that word before you keep embarrassing yourself with its misuse. No amount of rhetoric over your narrative will change the facts of this case.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

The REFEREES took air out of the Patriots' footballs!!!!!

Now, they did so as part of a normal process, which was to overinflate them and let air back out. Jastremski did the same thing. That's just how the equipment works!! By your logic, EVERY quarterback in the league should be suspended, along with every equipment guy, and the refs should be punished as well.

IDK anything about the "normal process"...but if you're telling me that the Refs caused deflategate...please expand on that and tell me why is Brady in all of the mess.

 

[Fencer]

IDK anything about the "normal process"...but if you're telling me that the Refs caused deflategate...please expand on that and tell me why is Brady in all of the mess.

That's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that the Patriots routinely deflate and reinflate the footballs at least twice during the ball prep process.

I'm further referencing -- as illustration that this makes sense rather than being some sleazy trick -- the bit in the Wells report that says that the refs themselves, as part of adjusting the pressure of the balls at halftime, both inflated and deflated them.

 

[Fencer]

They say the simplest answer is normally the right one. The simplest answer here is Brady likes his balls a little under the acceptable level and has been having them reduced over some time.

The more complicated is the report is flawed on this point because of not documenting which gauge was used where, people were just joking on some parts of the texts that meet our needs and were serious on others, again as we see fit, and more than one other team was lying when they made claims of balls being noticeably flatter than expected.

I'll stick with the more likely answers until proven otherwise. Nothing proposed is yet proof. Simply attempts to provide possibilities. Prove it and I'll be on board.

No. The simplest answer is that the balls obeyed the laws of physics and, by the way, no measurements were ever taken that demonstrate otherwise.

Similarly, there is exactly zero evidence of Brady requesting the pressure being illegally low, anybody else testifying (even waiving any concerns about hearsay) that Brady ever requested the pressure be illegally low, etc. So the simplest answer is that he didn't make the request.

 

[WizardHawk]

No. The simplest answer is that the balls obeyed the laws of physics and, by the way, no measurements were ever taken that demonstrate otherwise.

Similarly, there is exactly zero evidence of Brady requesting the pressure being illegally low, anybody else testifying (even waiving any concerns about hearsay) that Brady ever requested the pressure be illegally low, etc. So the simplest answer is that he didn't make the request.

Negative ghostrider

You have to have a lot of coincidence and unlikely explanations for several different aspects of the case to come to this answer. That's not the simple answer. The simple one fits all of the evidnce without having to have deviant explanations.

I'm guessing you don't know what simple means?

 

[Fencer]

Negative ghostrider

You have to have a lot of coincidence and unlikely explanations for several different aspects of the case to come to this answer. That's not the simple answer. The simple one fits all of the evidnce without having to have deviant explanations.

I'm guessing you don't know what simple means?

I don't know you, but I'll guess that my understanding of the matter exceeds yours.

Positing conspiracies, gods, demons or other single causes for events that can be explained straightforwardly by science is not an exercise in "simplicity".

 

[bigred472]

And you are sadly mistaken on your belief then. It can in fact be both, every team does cheat, and not every accusation is true.

Saying the Patriots didn't commit this infraction isn't also stating they never commit infractions.

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Every team does cheat. But when one team s caught more than once they are going to be looked at more closely. The Pats are utter idiots if they think they weren't being watched more closely than other teams--it's called repeated infractions.

Back in the Madden era of the Raiders they were notoriously known for cheating. Yes, everyone did it but for some reason the Raiders were the only team that whined when they got caught. Same thing is happening now with the Pats. If you're going to cheat and get caught, face the music. Notice even NOW Brady didn't file a complaint about his suspension--he's hiding behind the union.

 

[WizardHawk]

I don't know you, but I'll guess that my understanding of the matter exceeds yours.

Positing conspiracies, gods, demons or other single causes for events that can be explained straightforwardly by science is not an exercise in "simplicity".

Not shocking you are sticking to that one aspect of the broader pile of evidence and not one word on the rest of it as it entirely removes the idea of simplicity for you if you do.

So far all 'science' has given you is 'possible'. That's not proof. And to get to that 'possible' you must force the data to be confused by different gauges and other missteps and/or assumptions to get there. Entirely not the meaning of simple.

There is a reason this defense is the laughing stock of the entire sports nation right now.

 

[Fencer]

So far all 'science' has given you is 'possible'. That's not proof. And to get to that 'possible' you must force the data to be confused by different gauges and other missteps and/or assumptions to get there. Entirely not the meaning of simple.

The confusion is yours, and the Wells report's.

The pro-Pats version is simple -- if you believe everything the referees said, the Pats definitely didn't cheat. By way of contrast, the Wells report picked and chose what to believe and disbelieve from the refs, so as to paint a picture in which cheating seemed to have occurred.

 

[Fencer]

You have to have a lot of coincidence and unlikely explanations for several different aspects of the case to come to this answer. That's not the simple answer. The simple one fits all of the evidnce without having to have deviant explanations.

To go back to this post, and everything except the science (which you want to disregard because of how conclusively it is in the Pats' favor):

There is clear evidence that Jastremski, at Brady's direction, inflated and deflated footballs consistently with league rules.

The evidence that anything was done against league rules is, so far as I can tell, solely that McNally joked in a way that can be interpreted as him having been involved is such cheating. Big whoop. People jokingly claim to have done all sorts of stuff.

 

[WizardHawk]

There are no amount of words that will sway you or the rest of your clan. I guess most of us would suffer from the same blind homerism in your shoes. This argument will likely rage on for years.

I said all along I expected 4 games reduced to 2 and I'm still betting that is likely. That reduction won't change the minds of anyone on either side.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

That's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that the Patriots routinely deflate and reinflate the footballs at least twice during the ball prep process.

I'm further referencing -- as illustration that this makes sense rather than being some sleazy trick -- the bit in the Wells report that says that the refs themselves, as part of adjusting the pressure of the balls at halftime, both inflated and deflated them.

Okay...I understand.

Somewhere in this process...the wheels came off the tracks because apparently the game balls ended up being below the league limit...weather can have an effect on PSI...that much I know, but somebody (not something) took out more air than allowed...I don't think it was the Refs.

Bottom line...if RG, the Czar hears this appeal...I think Brady will serve a minimum of 2 games in street clothes.

 

[tabascojet]

"he had to piss....you must dismiss!!"

 

[NEPatsfan]

Okay...I understand.

Somewhere in this process...the wheels came off the tracks because apparently the game balls ended up being below the league limit...weather can have an effect on PSI...that much I know, but somebody (not something) took out more air than allowed...I don't think it was the Refs.

Bottom line...if RG, the Czar hears this appeal...I think Brady will serve a minimum of 2 games in street clothes.

The appeal has no meaning, it's simply a stepping stone to get it in front of the NLB, a place the league has a terrible track record in front of. There is a very real possibility the NLB will vacate the suspension.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

The appeal has no meaning, it's simply a stepping stone to get it in front of the NLB, a place the league has a terrible track record in front of. There is a very real possibility the NLB will vacate the suspension.

Possibility...possible.

FTR...I really don't "want" Brady to be guilty of this, (i.e. not a TB hater). I'm curious to find the validity of the Wells report...it appears to be merely a fact finding mission that assumes Brady at least knew air was being taken out.

Again...I expect this to be reduced to 2 games.

 

[Fencer]

.weather can have an effect on PSI...that much I know, but somebody (not something) took out more air than allowed

On what do you base that? According to the referees' measurements, the lowered air pressure was exactly in line with the predictions of physics.

 

[Fencer]

Again...I expect this to be reduced to 2 games.

I agree with that. The suspension won't be entirely vacated until after the Federal court case.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

On what do you base that? According to the referees' measurements, the lowered air pressure was exactly in line with the predictions of physics.

That's not a question for me really, but as a kid...I remember days when I left my basketball outside and the next day it would have more or less air in it than the day before...if it was left in the sun for several hours it would seem to have more air than normal...colder days it might have less...clearly the weather was having some effect on the PSI.

Could weather have played a part? Yes, but you would think the weather would effect more than just NE's footballs...people were involved here...the question that will never be answered...did TB know the balls were below league PSI?

 

[Fencer]

That's not a question for me really, but as a kid...I remember days when I left my basketball outside and the next day it would have more or less air in it than the day before...if it was left in the sun for several hours it would seem to have more air than normal...colder days it might have less...clearly the weather was having some effect on the PSI.

Could weather have played a part? Yes, but you would think the weather would effect more than just NE's footballs...people were involved here...the question that will never be answered...did TB know the balls were below league PSI?

1. What you're saying is, on a technicality, incorrect. Temperature changes the pressure without changing the amount of air inside.

2. The Colts' footballs were also affected. However, they started from a higher pressure, and also they spent much more time warming up before being tested than the Patriots' balls did.

As an example of why the latter matters -- when the balls from both teams were tested after the game, the pressure was ABOVE initial values ("initial" = pregame or halftime-adjusted as the case may be). Clearly, bringing the balls indoors raises the pressure pretty quickly.