Series Thread: 1) Boston Celtics vs 8) Chicago Bulls

[WiggyRuss]

He's a monster when he wants to be. I'm just not used to saying great player and plays D when they feel like it. Didn't have to worry about that back when men played bball.

maybe he could "retire" for 3 years to recharge his battery.

 

[gordontrue]

180 and changing your tune. Nice. I guess he doesn't want to go down as one of the great defensive players of all time if it doesn't matter. He's not even close to what Kobe, MJ, Duncan, KG and Pippen achieved.

lol I've stayed exactly consistent on my tune.

 

[trojanfan12]

maybe he could "retire" for 3 years to recharge his battery.

He any good at beisbol?

 

[gordontrue]

Its funny to me how the #1 argument for Jordan > LeBron basically boils down to "Jordan was at his best when it mattered most". (Aka Finals record).

But now, when we talk about defense, the opposite is suddenly being leveraged. "LeBron only turns it on when it matters and doesn't perform his best in the regular season".

For the record, I have Jordan over LeBron, but this is an illustration of the fact that to some people, LeBron literally can't win.

 

[SJ76]

He any good at beisbol?

Lebron would be great at DH because he wouldn't have to play D.

 

[SJ76]

Its funny to me how the #1 argument for Jordan > LeBron basically boils down to "Jordan was at his best when it mattered most". (Aka Finals record).

But now, when we talk about defense, the opposite is suddenly being leveraged. "LeBron only turns it on when it matters and doesn't perform his best in the regular season".

For the record, I have Jordan over LeBron, but this is an illustration of the fact that to some people, LeBron literally can't win.

There is no argument. Jordan dominated on both sides of the court all season long every season he played. Never lost a finals. Never even got to a game 7.


They are not even in the same ballpark.

 

[gordontrue]

Haven't seen any kind of consistent effort out of him. Blocks, rebounds and steals are nice, but they are also easily padded "highlight stats."

What I don't see is Lebron going out and giving 100% effort vs. a lesser player and then taking over against the teams best player when necessary.

Fair or not, he's the Cavs leader and they follow what he does. Imo, if he were giving 100% on defense, the Cavs defense would be much better than what we have seen from them all season.

Case in point, the playoff series they just completed vs. the Pacers. Sure they swept them. But they also gave up 109 points per game and their average margin of victory was 4 points. This was against the #7 seed in a weak conference. If they played anything close to last years defense, they would have destroyed the Pacers and Lebron, Kyrie and Love would have spent 4th quarters on the bench rather than trying to hang on and win.

Compare that to their most likely opponent in the finals, the Warriors. The Warriors gave up an average of 101.5 points per game and their average margin of victory was 18 points. That was with their best player missing 2 of the games.

Is that 100% on Lebron? Of course not. But he is the leader and sets the tone. If he's giving 100% on defense, so will everyone else. He hasn't done that, so neither have they.

Yeah I completely agree. To me, it just doesn't have much affect on how I view LeBron in terms of whether he is "one of the best defensive players in the league". To others, I guess it does.

IMO, at the end of the day, he is one of the best in the league right now in terms of his ability to impact a series or a game or a moment on the defensive end.

Maybe its the fact that I want the Cavs to do well and I'm not only OK with LeBron conserving himself for the playoffs, I want him to.

 

[SJ76]

maybe he could "retire" for 3 years to recharge his battery.

It was actually 1.5 years bud but keep the dream alive. He missed all of 1993-94 and part of the next year.


But.. but..but Lebron has played more games and needs a rest.

 

[SJ76]

Haven't seen any kind of consistent effort out of him. Blocks, rebounds and steals are nice, but they are also easily padded "highlight stats."

But he is the leader and sets the tone. If he's giving 100% on defense, so will everyone else. He hasn't done that, so neither have they.

Bold = chicken dinner

 

[gordontrue]

There is no argument. Jordan dominated on both sides of the court all season long. Never lost a finals. Never even got to a game 7.


They are not even in the same ballpark.

But what matters most? How you perform all season long? Or how you perform when it really matters?

Jordan wasn't perfect at either. There are a number of first-round exits we could bring up. And, Jordan absolutely did play in some game 7s.

 

[trojanfan12]

But now, when we talk about defense, the opposite is suddenly being leveraged. "LeBron only turns it on when it matters and doesn't perform his best in the regular season".

Perhaps that's because part of being the best is being the best all of the time, not just when you "feel like it"?

That, imo, is part of what makes Lebron so polarizing. He wants to be considered the best of all time or at least be in the conversation. But he doesn't want to perform at his best at all times like those players did.

 

[SJ76]

But what matters most? How you perform all season long? Or how you perform when it really matters?

Jordan wasn't perfect at either. There are a number of first-round exits we could bring up. And, Jordan absolutely did play in some game 7s.

Both. It's called consistency


Domination is domination. It's whenever you lace those shoes up my man

Jordan played in a game 7 of the Finals when?

1st round exits in the early/mid 80s? You must not have watch the Celtics and Pistons back then. Jordan didn't jump ship to go join a team with superstars.

 

[gordontrue]

Perhaps that's because part of being the best is being the best all of the time, not just when you "feel like it"?

That, imo, is part of what makes Lebron so polarizing. He wants to be considered the best of all time or at least be in the conversation. But he doesn't want to perform at his best at all times like those players did.

This is just picking and chosing. "Consistency matters in this case". "Ultimate stage matters in this case".

I mean, If consistency were the only criteria for all-time greatness, LeBron would be the runaway GOAT.

Kareem and Malone are probably the only ones who could even come close in a contest of career consistency with LeBron... and LeBron is still going.

 

[SJ76]

Perhaps that's because part of being the best is being the best all of the time, not just when you "feel like it"?

That, imo, is part of what makes Lebron so polarizing. He wants to be considered the best of all time or at least be in the conversation. But he doesn't want to perform at his best at all times like those players did.

+1

Best talent the NBA has ever seen? It would be tough to argue against. Does he have the killer mentality that MJ or Kobe have 95% of the season or game? No


That's the difference

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah I completely agree. To me, it just doesn't have much affect on how I view LeBron in terms of whether he is "one of the best defensive players in the league". To others, I guess it does.

IMO, at the end of the day, he is one of the best in the league right now in terms of his ability to impact a series or a game or a moment on the defensive end.

Maybe its the fact that I want the Cavs to do well and I'm not only OK with LeBron conserving himself for the playoffs, I want him to.

The bold, imo, is the issue. He has the ability, but doesn't use it unless he feels like it. It's the very definition of being a prima donna.

As I've pointed out, there are plenty of ways for him to conserve himself and still give his best effort. Guys have done it for decades.

 

[gordontrue]

Both. It's called consistency


Domination is domination. It's whenever you lace those shoes up my man

Jordan played in a game 7 of the Finals when?

1st round exits in the early/mid 80s? You must not have watch the Celtics and Pistons back then. Jordan didn't jump ship to go join a team with superstars.

You're all over the place now. Your willingness to use anything and everything to defend Jordan and criticize LeBron is apparent.

But you're wasting your breath. I have Jordan ahead of LeBron. You don't have to convince me of that.

And a big fat LOL at trying to use consistency against LeBron. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[gordontrue]

The bold, imo, is the issue. He has the ability, but doesn't use it unless he feels like it. It's the very definition of being a prima donna.

As I've pointed out, there are plenty of ways for him to conserve himself and still give his best effort. Guys have done it for decades.

You see it as ego. I see it as smart.

I mean, yeah, LeBron has an ego. But I don't think that has anything to do with the fact that he paces himself in the regular season.

 

[SJ76]

You're all over the place now. Your willingness to use anything and everything to defend Jordan and criticize LeBron is apparent.

But you're wasting your breath. I have Jordan ahead of LeBron. You don't have to convince me of that.

And a big fat LOL at trying to use consistency against LeBron. You can't make this stuff up.

You smoke crack don't you.


Jordan was in a finals game 7 when? Pretty sure my comments are right on point with consistency in both the regular season and playoffs.

Tough to handle for you I'm sure

 

[SJ76]

The bold, imo, is the issue. He has the ability, but doesn't use it unless he feels like it. It's the very definition of being a prima donna.

As I've pointed out, there are plenty of ways for him to conserve himself and still give his best effort. Guys have done it for decades.

The Cavs homers will never get it

 

[gordontrue]

You smoke crack don't you.


Jordan was in a finals game 7 when? Pretty sure my comments are right on point with consistency in both the regular season and playoffs.

Tough to handle for you I'm sure

Your first statement was he had never played in a Game 7. You didn't have the "finals" qualifier on their at first. He did play in a number of Game 7s, but never in the Finals.

Your comments on consistency are humurous because LeBron is one of the most consistent NBA players of all time over the course of his career. Much more so than Jordan.