Triple Espresso of Coffee Talk

Where's Mike Commodore when you really need him?!?

KennyBanyeah said:

This is kind of a conservative dog whistle though. History shows that Canadian debt is managed (or reduced) far more effectively by Liberal governments. Trudeau is running a deficit for sure and I'm not a fan for reasons above and beyond that. But his party has some recent history of taking care of our finances, all while being in the same ball park as decent people.

The conservatives offer none of that in recent years.

Canadian Federal Debt by Ruling Party

Obviously outside economic drivers play a role in this and correlation doesn't always equal causation but the fact remains that our money HAS been in better hands under Liberal watch than it has under Conservative.

I wish either one could step up and just be generally better but I think most Canadians see which one is more harmful.

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I mean, if we're going by party history comparing the only real debt-reduction effort on that chart, which was by the Chretien Liberals, to the current Liberal party is like comparing the US GOP of today to the Teddy Roosevelt-era party lol. I don't think anybody in the modern iteration of the LPC really gets to ride those coattails.

And though you hinted at it I think it bears more explanation noting that Mulroney took over during both a recession and an oil glut in the 80s, a double whammy that could've led to depression conditions in Canada, and while he definitely earned a lot of responsibility for the late 80s-early 90s recession he did take measures like instituting the GST which sure as shit helped Chretien & Martin balance the books by 2000.

While hardly Harper's biggest fan it does need to be said that a lot of his spending was a direct result of needing opposition support for his budgets to win confidence motions and that was also happening just as the global economy started to spiral downward. While not doing anything particularly helpful for the economy I don't think anybody can say with a straight face he did anything to harm it. Trudeau took office in a steady economy despite declining oil prices and with at worst a nearly-balanced budget. The economy has grown steadily but so has spending. If things go sour we could be looking at stimulus spending of $30-50 billion tacked on to the deficit and a party in charge who won't make cuts. What's the alternative here other than tax hikes like I described?

dash said:

Where's Mike Commodore when you really need him?!?

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pack her shit up in boxes over the weekend and leave it in the hallway. change the lock.
actually, forget the boxes. one big pile outside the door.

Bloody Brian Burke said:

I mean, if we're going by party history comparing the only real debt-reduction effort on that chart, which was by the Chretien Liberals, to the current Liberal party is like comparing the US GOP of today to the Teddy Roosevelt-era party lol. I don't think anybody in the modern iteration of the LPC really gets to ride those coattails.

And though you hinted at it I think it bears more explanation noting that Mulroney took over during both a recession and an oil glut in the 80s, a double whammy that could've led to depression conditions in Canada, and while he definitely earned a lot of responsibility for the late 80s-early 90s recession he did take measures like instituting the GST which sure as shit helped Chretien & Martin balance the books by 2000.

While hardly Harper's biggest fan it does need to be said that a lot of his spending was a direct result of needing opposition support for his budgets to win confidence motions and that was also happening just as the global economy started to spiral downward. While not doing anything particularly helpful for the economy I don't think anybody can say with a straight face he did anything to harm it. Trudeau took office in a steady economy despite declining oil prices and with at worst a nearly-balanced budget. The economy has grown steadily but so has spending. If things go sour we could be looking at stimulus spending of $30-50 billion tacked on to the deficit and a party in charge who won't make cuts. What's the alternative here other than tax hikes like I described?

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There is a lot of excuse-making here but OK. Bad things have happened during liberal tenures as well.

I can agree with Mulroney. He was alright. Basically the last Con candidate that that can be said for, IMO. He tried something new and it was great for the country. Do you honestly see the current CPC behaving anything like that though? They continue to go back to failed policies on a purely ideological basis. It's maddening.

I'd say Junior's liberals have WAY more in common with the Chretien era Libs than anybody paraded out in blue these days has with Mulroney.

But all this highlights why it's ridiculous to blindly follow one party. Right now the CPC is the worst (IMO) when it comes to the sheep mentality, just based on their disregard for progress and critical thinking. That could change. Hopefully it does. The country needs more good candidates and I couldn't care less which party they come from.

Looks like Anglo-Trump is on his way to a landslide win.



U.K. General Election 2019: Conservatives Headed for a Majority, Exit Poll Shows

KennyBanyeah said:

Looks like Anglo-Trump is on his way to a landslide win.



U.K. General Election 2019: Conservatives Headed for a Majority, Exit Poll Shows

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Everybody is looking to circle the wagons
What could possibly go wrong

KennyBanyeah said:

There is a lot of excuse-making here but OK. Bad things have happened during liberal tenures as well.

I can agree with Mulroney. He was alright. Basically the last Con candidate that that can be said for, IMO. He tried something new and it was great for the country. Do you honestly see the current CPC behaving anything like that though? They continue to go back to failed policies on a purely ideological basis. It's maddening.

I'd say Junior's liberals have WAY more in common with the Chretien era Libs than anybody paraded out in blue these days has with Mulroney.

But all this highlights why it's ridiculous to blindly follow one party. Right now the CPC is the worst (IMO) when it comes to the sheep mentality, just based on their disregard for progress and critical thinking. That could change. Hopefully it does. The country needs more good candidates and I couldn't care less which party they come from.

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Oh I would never deny that. 9/11 happened under a Liberal govt. They had to deal with a dead loonie and a very serious brain drain epidemic. Even Junior gets some sympathy from me for having to coincide with that unpredictable time bomb down south, even if he sometimes makes it harder than it has to be (ie: the NATO comments).

But I think to say these Liberals are any closer in ideology to their predecessors than their CPC counterparts is kind of misleading. And I agree that the CPC is definitely very different - by design, really, considering the current iteration isn’t a continuation but rather a merger of a centre-right “red Tory” party and a far-right movement that overtook it in popularity - but the Liberals completely shifted from what they were through to Paul Martin. And I don’t blame them for doing so, really - they were moribund, they went through three bad leaders each worse than the guy before him, and had sunk down to third party status. This was their last kick at relevancy and it worked great until his (completely predictable) flaws came to light.

And I think today actually showed that the Conservatives might not be as ideologically tight and unified in their hard-right ways as it seems - most of the commentary I heard this afternoon suggested that there’s a pretty hard split between people who wanted Scheer gone and people who were on board with him getting another go. There are a lot of smart people in that caucus who see the writing on the wall and aren’t exactly eager to go at Trudeau again in two or three years with the same playbook.

On the flip, we just witnessed a year where on at least two occasions Trudeau should’ve been turfed and he survived. I think that kinda shows where his party is with regards to him - there’s a loyalty there, a he-can-do-no-wrong attitude.

KennyBanyeah said:

Looks like Anglo-Trump is on his way to a landslide win.



U.K. General Election 2019: Conservatives Headed for a Majority, Exit Poll Shows

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Labour could’ve ran anyone, anyone more moderate and won. They stuck with an anti-Semitic nut job who kept screaming that the Americans were coming to steal their hospitals.

Reap what you sow. Get Brexit the hell over with and let’s never think of our colonial overlords again.

Oh that's definitely good, a juror taking his cues in a trial from the defense counsel.

Darkstone42 said:

Oh that's definitely good, a juror taking his cues in a trial from the defense counsel.

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Kind of a brilliant strategy. Get a mistrial declared.

It's not about truth. It's about winning.

forty_three said:

Kind of a brilliant strategy. Get a mistrial declared.

It's not about truth. It's about winning.

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Kind of like the old person that pulls out in front of you, cuts you off because they didn't see you. As long as they are looking the other way they didn't do anything wrong.

Bloody Brian Burke said:

On the flip, we just witnessed a year where on at least two occasions Trudeau should’ve been turfed and he survived. I think that kinda shows where his party is with regards to him - there’s a loyalty there, a he-can-do-no-wrong attitude.


Labour could’ve ran anyone, anyone more moderate and won. They stuck with an anti-Semitic nut job who kept screaming that the Americans were coming to steal their hospitals.

Reap what you sow. Get Brexit the hell over with and let’s never think of our colonial overlords again.

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I don't really agree on the part I cut out but it's a fair point of view. A little optimistic re: the CPC but hopefully they do get their shit together.

On the content I left in I completely agree. Trudeau should have been turfed by the Liberals but I'm guessing they deemed that too risky. PLus they might have looked across the aisle at Andrew Scheer and decided it really didn't matter much.

As for Corbyn he's trash. My facepalm was just at Boris in general, not the fact that he won. Boris and Jeremy make JT and Scheer look like Mandela (obviously this is JT) and Abraham Lincoln. I feel bad for the Brits.

The good news when the pound plummets in the next few years, I will probably be able to pick up a Bentley or Jag pretty cheap.

My dad passed away a little over three years ago (born and raised in Southampton, England and emigrated to Canada along with my mom and two oldest sisters in 1961) and although I miss him, part of me is relieved that he has been spared all of this political nonsense that has occurred since his passing in the US, Canada, and Great Britain.

dash said:

My dad passed away a little over three years ago (born and raised in Southampton, England and emigrated to Canada along with my mom and two oldest sisters in 1961) and although I miss him, part of me is relieved that he has been spared all of this political nonsense that has occurred since his passing in the US, Canada, and Great Britain.

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Well said. I could say the same about my grandfather who died in 2004. He immigrated to Canada with my mom's family in the 50s from England/Wales. He would have had some choice words about all of these muppets.

As an aside... how old would @dash 's dad have been. I'm no mathematician but even if he had kids early he MUST have been at least 150 at the time of his passing. Those are some solid genes!

LOL

KennyBanyeah said:

LOL

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Unfortunately, it's going to take more than "One Week" to fix it.

Man I didn’t realize it last night but Labour got absolutely murdered. I think it’s worth asking what made Boris so electable to the same people who didn’t find May worth a vote two years ago against the same opposition.

Also worth noting that for the first time ever Northern Ireland sent more Nationalist MP’s to Westminster than Unionists. Perfect timing as they get ready to stoke that fire again with that whole needing customs to cross from NI to GB thing.