Ongoing NHL thread - Part deux

[dash]

The Blues have extended a PTO to BizNasty2.0...

 

[DragonfromTO]

was there a bounty placed?

We could all land in the clinker for this!

[YOUTUBE]-HbehN1LET8[/YOUTUBE]

 

[jstewismybastardson]

The Blues have extended a PTO to BizNasty2.0...

i think i once saw this oddly phallic post in the back of a Hustler magazine once

 

[dash]

Some Red Wings updates:

Todd Bertuzzi has joined his former Wings teammates for the final informal practice at JLA before camp.

However, there's also this...

Bertuzzi has not been invited to camp on a tryout by the Wings, Ken Holland said.

 

[forty_three]

But let me ask you, do you think it's fair that Brandon Dubinsky make $1.5 million more than Ryan Johansen? Or Horton $1 million more? This is where RFA deals get shitty to me - guys who have talent and promise are told to prove it, and UFA guys who are known commodities and decent-but-unspectacular at that get to cash in on that because GM's can't help themselves.

I hate making it sound like I'm defending the agent's tactics, because he appears to be one of the more sleazy and deceptive ones out there but I think it says a lot about the unfairness of the system when a guy who might score 80 points next season and compete for the Selke, is valued that much less than a guy who will almost assuredly peak at 50 points and pester Crosby for a few games just because he hasn't played 3 more seasons.

If points are all you look at in valuing a player, it's not fair. But Nathan Horton, albeit an injury risk, has a cup and has a reputation for being a stand up teammate and having a work ethic second to none. Dubinsky gives heart and soul 100% of the time and is a locker room leader, and had just scored the biggest goal in team history (except Foligno one-upped him). Bottom line with those two is the organization stated very clearly what they wanted and those two delivered. And they got paid. Although with Horton it was very front ended, I admit. The team wanted him to lead and he did, he just did from a chair in the locker room more than on the ice. He just got his money up front.

Ryan Johansen is a year removed from being demoted to the AHL and then benched there. So yes, considering Dubinsky and Horton have done what the team wants from them and Johansen has not (not completely yet). The I am okay with paying those two more than him. For now.

And if Johansen wins a Selke (which I think he is capable of) and contributes 80+ points per season for the next two years, I am fine with him getting paid too. Like Bobrovsky, he took a bridge. He has a Vezina and a season where he carried the team on his back to the playoffs. He is going to get paid. PK got paid. I don't get why Johansen's agent seems to think Ryan isn't capable of that.

 

[DragonfromTO]

If points are all you look at in valuing a player, it's not fair. But Nathan Horton, albeit an injury risk, has a cup and has a reputation for being a stand up teammate and having a work ethic second to none. Dubinsky gives heart and soul 100% of the time and is a locker room leader, and had just scored the biggest goal in team history (except Foligno one-upped him). Bottom line with those two is the organization stated very clearly what they wanted and those two delivered. And they got paid. Although with Horton it was very front ended, I admit. The team wanted him to lead and he did, he just did from a chair in the locker room more than on the ice. He just got his money up front.

Ryan Johansen is a year removed from being demoted to the AHL and then benched there. So yes, considering Dubinsky and Horton have done what the team wants from them and Johansen has not (not completely yet). The I am okay with paying those two more than him. For now.

And if Johansen wins a Selke (which I think he is capable of) and contributes 80+ points per season for the next two years, I am fine with him getting paid too. Like Bobrovsky, he took a bridge. He has a Vezina and a season where he carried the team on his back to the playoffs. He is going to get paid. PK got paid. I don't get why Johansen's agent seems to think Ryan isn't capable of that.

So the Dave Bolland deal looks like a good one then? Because that sounds almost exactly like the case for it.

 

[DragonfromTO]

If points are all you look at in valuing a player, it's not fair. But Nathan Horton, albeit an injury risk, has a cup and has a reputation for being a stand up teammate and having a work ethic second to none. Dubinsky gives heart and soul 100% of the time and is a locker room leader, and had just scored the biggest goal in team history (except Foligno one-upped him). Bottom line with those two is the organization stated very clearly what they wanted and those two delivered. And they got paid. Although with Horton it was very front ended, I admit. The team wanted him to lead and he did, he just did from a chair in the locker room more than on the ice. He just got his money up front.

Ryan Johansen is a year removed from being demoted to the AHL and then benched there. So yes, considering Dubinsky and Horton have done what the team wants from them and Johansen has not (not completely yet). The I am okay with paying those two more than him. For now.

And if Johansen wins a Selke (which I think he is capable of) and contributes 80+ points per season for the next two years, I am fine with him getting paid too. Like Bobrovsky, he took a bridge. He has a Vezina and a season where he carried the team on his back to the playoffs. He is going to get paid. PK got paid. I don't get why Johansen's agent seems to think Ryan isn't capable of that.

By not wanting to pay him and lock him up don't you think that the team is the one sending the (bad) message that they don't think he's capable of that?

 

[IPostedWhat]

 

[forty_three]

So the Dave Bolland deal looks like a good one then? Because that sounds almost exactly like the case for it.

Not exactly. And UFAs are a different beast than the RyJo situation. I was commenting on what the Jackets were looking for and why they paid Horton more than they offered Johansen. And in the UFA market you have to risk more to get "your guy". Sometimes you get burned. Sometimes you don't. Bolland's contract, and hindsight proves it conclusively, was a mistake. The Jackets are not saying that about Horton. It could well get there if he can't stay healthy, but so far he has given them everything they have asked of him, and the contract does not look like an albatross. The question was, am I okay with them paying Horton 1m more than they offered Johansen. Right now? Yes.

By not wanting to pay him and lock him up don't you think that the team is the one sending the (bad) message that they don't think he's capable of that?

The message is not they think he's incapable. They are saying they will take decent care of him until he proves that the AHL demotion and benching was the fluke. I don't feel that's a bad message. If they thought he was incapable, they would have sent hm to the Rangers. *cough* Brassard *cough*

 

[Cobiemonster]

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Very sweet deal for a player who will likely put up lots of points playing with Getzlaf & Perry.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

So the Dave Bolland deal looks like a good one then? Because that sounds almost exactly like the case for it.

You beat me to it.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Not exactly. And UFAs are a different beast than the RyJo situation. I was commenting on what the Jackets were looking for and why they paid Horton more than they offered Johansen. And in the UFA market you have to risk more to get "your guy". Sometimes you get burned. Sometimes you don't. Bolland's contract, and hindsight proves it conclusively, was a mistake. The Jackets are not saying that about Horton. It could well get there if he can't stay healthy, but so far he has given them everything they have asked of him, and the contract does not look like an albatross. The question was, am I okay with them paying Horton 1m more than they offered Johansen. Right now? Yes.



The message is not they think he's incapable. They are saying they will take decent care of him until he proves that the AHL demotion and benching was the fluke. I don't feel that's a bad message. If they thought he was incapable, they would have sent hm to the Rangers. *cough* Brassard *cough*

How about Landeskog as an example to follow? By all accounts his second season was shit. Avs looked past it, inked him to a 7 year deal with an AAV of $5.57 and how little do you think they regret that?

If the kid wants $5.5-6m AAV for 6 years, I think that's a steal.

 

[forty_three]

How about Landeskog as an example to follow? By all accounts his second season was shit. Avs looked past it, inked him to a 7 year deal with an AAV of $5.57 and how little do you think they regret that?

If the kid wants $5.5-6m AAV for 6 years, I think that's a steal.

But Landeskog, even with a bad second season, showed more to the organization than what was on the ice. He is their captain. The Avs knew they wouldn't regret it, even if he didn't regain the scoring touch of his rookie year. The Jackets aren't comfortable with that question because he Johansen a year removed from being benched in the minors. I don't think it's unreasonable of the team to ask him to show which season was the fluke before opening the taps.

And 2 years at 5m is an even bigger steal. He wants 2 at 6.5. More than Duchene got.

Let me be clear, I think they should pay him 5 or 5.5 for the 2 he's agreed to and move on. And after next season when he leads the team in scoring, give him his 6+ yr deal at market rate. But I am not the one with the checkbook and I am not inside that meeting room where its being discussed. All I can say is there is something about him that makes the team hesitate (and may be why no offer sheet came). I can only speculate that it's the work ethic question. But maybe they just hate that agent that much.

 

[Cobiemonster]

 

[Cobiemonster]

 

[forty_three]

Neat twist on the age old "have the players give out a few season tickets" thing most teams do. Well done, Ducks.

 

[pixburgher66]

Neat twist on the age old "have the players give out a few season tickets" thing most teams do. Well done, Ducks.

Well, first off: totally forgot Kesler was in Anaheim until just now. Second off: pretty neat change of pace. I love that teams do that, regardless of how it's done. Just a super classy way to thank the people who really invest in them. I had a relative of a friend who had Sid show up once, and my friend is still bitter to this day that they never told them a player was coming...but apparently the team likes them to keep it on the down low (obviously).

 

[IPostedWhat]

On one hand I'm bummed that the Sabres didn't even win a game at the Traverse Tournament, but on the other hand, it's going to be great once they draft McDavid.

 

[pixburgher66]

RE: Johansen

@NicholsOnHockey 2m
John Davidson says Johansen's agent has used Stamkos, Kane, Toews as negotiation comparables. #CBJ point toward Duchene, Stepan. (Dispatch)

Heh...ummmmmm....hmmmm. Yeah, no.