Ongoing NHL thread - Part deux

[esls79]

Has either team checked on the availability of Bertuzzi for the game yet?

 

[mattola]

Yes, but no disintegrations.

as you wish

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

For forty_three Blue Jackets: Kekalainen takes hard line in Johansen talks | BlueJackets Xtra

This is getting very ugly.

 

[forty_three]

For forty_three Blue Jackets: Kekalainen takes hard line in Johansen talks | BlueJackets Xtra

This is getting very ugly.

I don't know if I would say it's at the "ugly" stage yet, it's just a very stubborn GM who knows he holds all four aces in his hand drawing a line in the sand. But it's one public statement by Johansen or Overholdt from getting very, very ugly.

This was an excellent point:

The Blue Jackets have offered between $3 million and $3.5 million per season, citing Matt Duchene, who signed a two-year, $7 million contract with the Colorado Avalanche in 2012. Kekalainen said that is the largest two-year contract ever awarded to a player coming out of his entry-level contract, excluding those who have signed offer sheets.

I am sure Jarmo is hearing from every other GM in the league about setting a precedent. Makes a little more sense about the money they have offered. Adjusting for the salary increases since 2012, I am sure Jarmo has a hard limit of like 4.5 or less. 4.5m is a lot better than 900k, and its a damn sight better than sitting down getting nothing.

I also like the way he stated this, and this was directed squarely at Ryan (not the agent). Although he did open-handed slap the agent in the face.

“From their side, hopefully, this should be about Ryan Johansen and his future, his long-term future and his long-term future with the Blue Jackets,” Kekalainen said. “This shouldn’t be about setting a new standard or about an agent breaking records.”

Kekalainen said the Blue Jackets will pay Johansen like a franchise player when he puts forth more seasons like the last one.

“(Johansen’s) potential is great,” Kekalainen said. “But we’re not there yet, after one year, where we’re willing to invest franchise-type money into his future. Do it once or twice more. Make us pay. Go ahead and make us pay.

The only thing I worry is that Jarmo is putting too much faith in the kids. I think he expects Dano, Bjorkstrand and Wennberg to make a serious push to make this team and all three can play center. And in a few years, Wennberg can be close to where Johansen is. But not yet. Not by a long shot.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Has either team checked on the availability of Bertuzzi for the game yet?

there was actually some talk of a canucks pto for him yesterday

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I don't know if I would say it's at the "ugly" stage yet, it's just a very stubborn GM who knows he holds all four aces in his hand drawing a line in the sand. But it's one public statement by Johansen or Overholdt from getting very, very ugly.

This was an excellent point:


I am sure Jarmo is hearing from every other GM in the league about setting a precedent. Makes a little more sense about the money they have offered. Adjusting for the salary increases since 2012, I am sure Jarmo has a hard limit of like 4.5 or less. 4.5m is a lot better than 900k, and its a damn sight better than sitting down getting nothing.

I also like the way he stated this, and this was directed squarely at Ryan (not the agent). Although he did open-handed slap the agent in the face.




The only thing I worry is that Jarmo is putting too much faith in the kids. I think he expects Dano, Bjorkstrand and Wennberg to make a serious push to make this team and all three can play center. And in a few years, Wennberg can be close to where Johansen is. But not yet. Not by a long shot.

A GM saying "make us pay" is never a good thing.

I'm really surprised a team hasn't come in with an offer sheet yet, just like I was when Stamkos and TB were negotiating. High-ball the crap out of the player, make the GM match it and be hamstrung cap-wise for years. TB is $1.5 million over the cap right now; how screwed are they today if Stamkos were making $10 million? How much of a benefit is that to their division rivals?

The old boys club is filled with pussies, sometimes.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

there was actually some talk of a canucks pto for him yesterday

I can see a team doing it, but Vancouver would be mind-blowing.

 

[mattola]

there was actually some talk of a canucks pto for him yesterday

I can see a team doing it, but Vancouver would be mind-blowing.

with the law suit off his back he one would need a season to regain some cash and two could have some serious weight lifted off him, he may be worth the risk for one decent season (maybe 15 goals at $1.5M) I wouldnt dislike it. I mean I still have my Bertuzzi jersey lol

 

[jstewismybastardson]

with the law suit off his back he one would need a season to regain some cash and two could have some serious weight lifted off him, he may be worth the risk for one decent season (maybe 15 goals at $1.5M) I wouldnt dislike it. I mean I still have my Bertuzzi jersey lol

yah im not really buying him back to the canucks though ... not because of the lawsuit/Moore/history thing ... thats done

Im not sure what kind of relationship Tawwwwwwwwwwwwd had with Lord Linden ... I seem to recall him referring to Trevor as "coach" back when they played together and it wasnt a term of endearment

 

[forty_three]

A GM saying "make us pay" is never a good thing.

I'm really surprised a team hasn't come in with an offer sheet yet, just like I was when Stamkos and TB were negotiating. High-ball the crap out of the player, make the GM match it and be hamstrung cap-wise for years. TB is $1.5 million over the cap right now; how screwed are they today if Stamkos were making $10 million? How much of a benefit is that to their division rivals?

The old boys club is filled with pussies, sometimes.

Jarmo can be a loose cannon. If some team did that and he felt it was unreasonable - he'd let them have him. Then they'd be the one in cap trouble. He said they'd match any offer, but I know there's a line where he wouldn't.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Botchford was tweeting some insight on Overhardt yesterday ... how the gms hate him and therefore the players love him

what team is going to do the offer sheet when all it ends up helping is the agent and the player in the end ?

[ame="[MEDIA=twitter]511606566345510912[/MEDIA]"][/ame]

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Jarmo can be a loose cannon. If some team did that and he felt it was unreasonable - he'd let them have him. Then they'd be the one in cap trouble. He said they'd match any offer, but I know there's a line where he wouldn't.

I think he'd have to match it. The odds that the four picks he gets back are late-round are probably better than 50-50, depending on the team of course but also given how much of a boost a guy like Johansen would be to a team in the weak-as-shit east. Then you look like an asshat with 4 pick #'s 25-30 in exchange for one of the best two-way centres in the game, and ultimately the long-suffering BJ fans just add to their long list of managerial fuckups.

To me, the player and agent still have every card in the deck to play. It's not like the team is up against the cap, and it's not like the team is going to succeed without their best forward.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Botchford was tweeting some insight on Overhardt yesterday ... how the gms hate him and therefore the players love him

what team is going to do the offer sheet when all it ends up helping is the agent and the player in the end ?

It's like in soccer with Jorge Mendes - sure, you hate dealing with the greedy prick, but do you want to improve your team? Then you had better deal with him. Personal feelings should never interfere with business.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

It's like in soccer with Jorge Mendes - sure, you hate dealing with the greedy prick, but do you want to improve your team? Then you had better deal with him. Personal feelings should never interfere with business.

but at some point, the agent can become too good and after always getting mega dollars for scrub clients (*cough* Bobby Holik *cough*), the gms dont want to deal anymore ... and then you become a gm ... and then you get fat ... and then you lose all the weight when you get fired

 

[Nasty_Magician]

A GM saying "make us pay" is never a good thing.

I'm really surprised a team hasn't come in with an offer sheet yet, just like I was when Stamkos and TB were negotiating. High-ball the crap out of the player, make the GM match it and be hamstrung cap-wise for years. TB is $1.5 million over the cap right now; how screwed are they today if Stamkos were making $10 million? How much of a benefit is that to their division rivals?

The old boys club is filled with pussies, sometimes.

It's probably bad karma to start fucking with other GMs/owners. You're essentially blacklisting yourself, GMs won't want to deal with you or trust you. Down the line you will never get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

It's probably bad karma to start fucking with other GMs/owners. You're essentially blacklisting yourself, GMs won't want to deal with you or trust you. Down the line you will never get the benefit of the doubt.

Eh. People still make trades with Kevin Lowe.

I wish it were far more commonplace - it would make things so much more interesting.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

but at some point, the agent can become too good and after always getting mega dollars for scrub clients (*cough* Bobby Holik *cough*), the gms dont want to deal anymore ... and then you become a gm ... and then you get fat ... and then you lose all the weight when you get fired

Vicious cycle.

 

[forty_three]

I think he'd have to match it. The odds that the four picks he gets back are late-round are probably better than 50-50, depending on the team of course but also given how much of a boost a guy like Johansen would be to a team in the weak-as-shit east. Then you look like an asshat with 4 pick #'s 25-30 in exchange for one of the best two-way centres in the game, and ultimately the long-suffering BJ fans just add to their long list of managerial fuckups.

To me, the player and agent still have every card in the deck to play. It's not like the team is up against the cap, and it's not like the team is going to succeed without their best forward.

I would prefer they match it too, because they are better with him than without. But the way the Jackets are structured one guy isn't going to make the whole cart topple over as in years past. It's like an injury, if he was hurt, how would the team move on? Move Boone Jenner to center between Horton and Hartnell. Would it be better to not have to do that? Obviously. But the team is not dead in the water if he isn't there, like they would have been if, say Rick Nash had held out.

And the agent and player do have a lot of cards left to play. And all of them are misdirection and grandstanding. And the agent doesn't seem capable of understanding that the more he says, the more he pisses off every GM in the league. He has beaten the bricks to get an offer sheet and has failed. That was his only trump card. And he doesn't have it anymore. I would have thought that the relative ease and success of the Dubinsky negotiations would have shown him what the Jackets want in a player and how they will reward someone who gives it to them. But the guy is learning impaired.

Johansen has been here in town, skating with the team and hanging out with the guys. If he does not have a deal by Thursday, he will be told to clean out his locker and stay away from the team's facilities. He has to know if it comes to that it is going to be near impossible to come back and be one of the boys. He also can't be so stupid to think his success was all him. Matt Duchene, Bobrovsky and PK Subban bit the bullet, he can't think he's more important than those three guys.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

And the agent and player do have a lot of cards left to play. And all of them are misdirection and grandstanding. And the agent doesn't seem capable of understanding that the more he says, the more he pisses off every GM in the league. He has beaten the bricks to get an offer sheet and has failed. That was his only trump card. And he doesn't have it anymore. I would have thought that the relative ease and success of the Dubinsky negotiations would have shown him what the Jackets want in a player and how they will reward someone who gives it to them. But the guy is learning impaired.

Johansen has been here in town, skating with the team and hanging out with the guys. If he does not have a deal by Thursday, he will be told to clean out his locker and stay away from the team's facilities. He has to know if it comes to that it is going to be near impossible to come back and be one of the boys. He also can't be so stupid to think his success was all him. Matt Duchene, Bobrovsky and PK Subban bit the bullet, he can't think he's more important than those three guys.

But let me ask you, do you think it's fair that Brandon Dubinsky make $1.5 million more than Ryan Johansen? Or Horton $1 million more? This is where RFA deals get shitty to me - guys who have talent and promise are told to prove it, and UFA guys who are known commodities and decent-but-unspectacular at that get to cash in on that because GM's can't help themselves.

I hate making it sound like I'm defending the agent's tactics, because he appears to be one of the more sleazy and deceptive ones out there but I think it says a lot about the unfairness of the system when a guy who might score 80 points next season and compete for the Selke, is valued that much less than a guy who will almost assuredly peak at 50 points and pester Crosby for a few games just because he hasn't played 3 more seasons.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Also, the note about the players not welcoming a holdout guy back is BS. There's a perfect example of it working out well in Colorado.