Horace Grant says LeBron James Miami Heat no match for Michael Jordan's Bulls

[Hornsstampede2.0]

All nostalgia aside, If a team has a truly dominant low post power guy, they would beat the HEAT.


That is their biggest weakness.
It might be Miami's only weakness.
And that is a credit to Miami's greatness as well. They don't have many weaknesses.


As great as the Bulls were in the 1990s, they never had the dominant post player.
I think Lebron could hang with MJ's teams..


Under no circumstances could Lebron's Heat hang with Shaquille ONeal's Lakers.
Matchups are more important than overall greatness.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

All nostalgia aside, If a team has a truly dominant low post power guy, they would beat the HEAT.


That is their biggest weakness.
It might be Miami's only weakness.
And that is a credit to Miami's greatness as well. They don't have many weaknesses.


As great as the Bulls were in the 1990s, they never had the dominant post player.
I think Lebron could hang with MJ's teams..


Under no circumstances could Lebron's Heat hang with Shaquille ONeal's Lakers.
Matchups are more important than overall greatness.

Except, the Bulls went through teams with dominate low post players...

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

The second 3peat is ridiculously stacked, I think you would be better off trying to make a case for the 1st 3 peat team. That's just me and you can do what you want.

So we are comparing the teams aside from MJ and LBJ. It will be a bit odd because they play different positions and that will leave another position mismatch in the comparo. But I will get on it.

Oh and just playoff numbers or season totals?

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

The second 3peat is ridiculously stacked, I think you would be better off trying to make a case for the 1st 3 peat team. That's just me and you can do what you want.

Just a quick look at the starting 5 outside of LBJ and MJ. Heat 2012-13, Bulls 1995-96

The metric I looked at was win shares per 48. It is the easiest way to compare players quickly. (league ave. is .100)

PG
Chalmers season ws/48 - .120 playoff ws/48 - .076
Kerr season ws/48 - .208 playoff ws/48 - .184

Adv. Bulls

PF
Bosh season ws/48 - .175 playoff ws/48 - .140
Rodman season ws/48 - .143 playoff ws/48 - .149

Adv. Regular season, Heat Playoffs, Bulls

C
Haslem season ws/48 - .108 playoff ws/48 - .142
Longley season ws/48 - .101 playoff ws/48 - .091

Adv. Heat

Wade season ws/48 - .192 playoff ws/48 - .108
Pippen season ws/48 - .209 playoff ws/48 - .195

Adv. Bulls



Totals

season

Heat ws/48 of "other starting 4" - .595
Bulls ws/48 of "other starting 4" - .661

Adv. Bulls

Playoffs

Heat ws/48 of "other starting 4" - .466
Bulls ws/48 of "other starting 4" - .619

Adv. Bulls

So by the looks of things, the Bulls "other starting 4" are better than the "other starting 4" of the Heat both in the regular season and playoffs.

I have to run but I will look at the benches later. It should be interesting because I did look at MJ's and LBJ's ws/48. LBJ's was higher than MJ's during the regular season (+.005) but MJ's was higher in the playoffs (+.046). So taking into consideration all these numbers, I suspect that Miami's bench is better due to the fact that not only does the "other starting 4's" ws/48 really dip from regular season to playoffs (-.129) for Miami (Bulls -.042) but LBJ's dips more significantly than Jordan's (LBJ -.062, MJ -.011).

Stay tuned.

 

[Sportsman]

Just a quick look at the starting 5 outside of LBJ and MJ. Heat 2012-13, Bulls 1995-96

The metric I looked at was win shares per 48. It is the easiest way to compare players quickly. (league ave. is .100)

PG
Chalmers season ws/48 - .120 playoff ws/48 - .076
Kerr season ws/48 - .208 playoff ws/48 - .184

Adv. Bulls

PF
Bosh season ws/48 - .175 playoff ws/48 - .140
Rodman season ws/48 - .143 playoff ws/48 - .149

Adv. Regular season, Heat Playoffs, Bulls

C
Haslem season ws/48 - .108 playoff ws/48 - .142
Longley season ws/48 - .101 playoff ws/48 - .091

Adv. Heat

Wade season ws/48 - .192 playoff ws/48 - .108
Pippen season ws/48 - .209 playoff ws/48 - .195

Adv. Bulls



Totals

season

Heat ws/48 of "other starting 4" - .595
Bulls ws/48 of "other starting 4" - .661

Adv. Bulls

Playoffs

Heat ws/48 of "other starting 4" - .466
Bulls ws/48 of "other starting 4" - .619

Adv. Bulls

So by the looks of things, the Bulls "other starting 4" are better than the "other starting 4" of the Heat both in the regular season and playoffs.

I have to run but I will look at the benches later. It should be interesting because I did look at MJ's and LBJ's ws/48. LBJ's was higher than MJ's during the regular season (+.005) but MJ's was higher in the playoffs (+.046). So taking into consideration all these numbers, I suspect that Miami's bench is better due to the fact that not only does the "other starting 4's" ws/48 really dip from regular season to playoffs (-.129) for Miami (Bulls -.042) but LBJ's dips more significantly than Jordan's (LBJ -.062, MJ -.011).

Stay tuned.

hmmm.. win shares??? Are you going to weight the win share or just say that player A is better than player B because his WS was 1% better? Not really an accurate assessment of their value if one gets the nod over the other when they are essentially as valuable. Let's look at the current WS of different players. According to WS Kyle Lowry was more valuable that Mike Conley this year.

Anyway, all I need to know is when MJ went to play baseball that the bulls had only a few less wins then when MJ was on the team and almost went to the ECF's without him. Do you really think if you took Lebron off the Heat that the Heat would lose a few less games next year?

 

[Shanemansj13]

Willing to bet $100 you never watched any NBA ball before 2006, right?

I used to go to Cavs game when I was little when they had Kemp and Andre Miller. Anyone remember Terrell Brandon??? He was a bad ass. But yah, I know my bball.

 

[Shanemansj13]

If MJ and Lebron played 1-on-1 10 times MJ would win all 10. MJ is the ultimate 1-on-1 player.
- Magic Johnson

Magic is mad!!!

 

[Sportsman]

Just a quick look at the starting 5 outside of LBJ and MJ. Heat 2012-13, Bulls 1995-96

The metric I looked at was win shares per 48. It is the easiest way to compare players quickly. (league ave. is .100)

PG
Chalmers season ws/48 - .120 playoff ws/48 - .076
Kerr season ws/48 - .208 playoff ws/48 - .184

Adv. Bulls

PF
Bosh season ws/48 - .175 playoff ws/48 - .140
Rodman season ws/48 - .143 playoff ws/48 - .149

Adv. Regular season, Heat Playoffs, Bulls

C
Haslem season ws/48 - .108 playoff ws/48 - .142
Longley season ws/48 - .101 playoff ws/48 - .091

Adv. Heat

Wade season ws/48 - .192 playoff ws/48 - .108
Pippen season ws/48 - .209 playoff ws/48 - .195

Adv. Bulls



Totals

season

Heat ws/48 of "other starting 4" - .595
Bulls ws/48 of "other starting 4" - .661

Adv. Bulls

Playoffs

Heat ws/48 of "other starting 4" - .466
Bulls ws/48 of "other starting 4" - .619

Adv. Bulls

So by the looks of things, the Bulls "other starting 4" are better than the "other starting 4" of the Heat both in the regular season and playoffs.

I have to run but I will look at the benches later. It should be interesting because I did look at MJ's and LBJ's ws/48. LBJ's was higher than MJ's during the regular season (+.005) but MJ's was higher in the playoffs (+.046). So taking into consideration all these numbers, I suspect that Miami's bench is better due to the fact that not only does the "other starting 4's" ws/48 really dip from regular season to playoffs (-.129) for Miami (Bulls -.042) but LBJ's dips more significantly than Jordan's (LBJ -.062, MJ -.011).

Stay tuned.

I thought we were doing the 1st three peat.

 

[TBBishop]

I agree. I doubt the Heat win 1 game vs those Bulls teams. The only reason Jordan doesn't have 8 straight titles is because the 2 years in between he took off to play baseball.

I seriously doubt the Bulls would have won 8 straight. they may not have won 6 if Jordan hadn't taken those 2 years off. If Jordan is there, they may not end up with Steve Kerr.Toni Kukoc may have stayed over seas if Jordan were there. Maybe Ron Harper doesn't come if Jordan is there. Some of the moves the Bulls made were a reaction to losing Jordan. You never know how they are constructed if Jordan were there.

As far as the point of the thread, of couse HoGrant would say that. If he were on the Lakers title teams he would say the Lakers would have beat them or the Pistons or the Celtics or the Rockets. This isn't really news. But I think the Heat beat the Bulls teams with Grant one or two of the three years but get run out of the gym by the second 3-peaters. I don't know if anyone team would even challenge the 72-10 Bulls.

 

[podsox]

Kerr didn't start for the championship bulls teams.

 

[cwalke3408]

The Bulls would win but not because Jordan is better than Lebron, it's because Jordan had a superior supporting cast.

They're the greatest ever, of course the supporting cast is superior and so is Jordan over lebron.

 

[Steelboy84]

This isnt even debatable.

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

I thought we were doing the 1st three peat.

You said 2nd 3peat was stacked so I was giving you the best case scenario.

 

[Jims_Doors]

This isnt even debatable.

Thanks to your awesome reasons as to why....

 

[bksballer89]

They're the greatest ever, of course the supporting cast is superior and so is Jordan over lebron.

Let's compare the 1992-1993 Bulls to the 2012-2013 Heat in terms of supporting cast

Both teams had 4 players who avg double digits while the next bulls player avg 5.9 PPG & 5.6 PPG. As for Miami the next highest player avg 8.6 PPG followed by a player who avgs 6.6 PPG and the Heat were also the much better shooting team especially 3 point shooting as they had 7 players who shot 35% or better from 3 while the Bulls only had MJ who shot 35% with the next highest being Pippen at 23%.

It's a pretty even match-up

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

Magic is mad!!!

Think he knows more than you?

 

[HuskerCradle2Grave]

hmmm.. win shares??? Are you going to weight the win share or just say that player A is better than player B because his WS was 1% better? Not really an accurate assessment of their value if one gets the nod over the other when they are essentially as valuable. Let's look at the current WS of different players. According to WS Kyle Lowry was more valuable that Mike Conley this year.

Anyway, all I need to know is when MJ went to play baseball that the bulls had only a few less wins then when MJ was on the team and almost went to the ECF's without him. Do you really think if you took Lebron off the Heat that the Heat would lose a few less games next year?

No weighting of win shares. That is taken into consideration in the metric. It is an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player per 48 minutes...

So he was according to this metric.

Which metric would you prefer?

 

[Sportsman]

No weighting of win shares. That is taken into consideration in the metric. It is an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player per 48 minutes...

So he was according to this metric.

Which metric would you prefer?

Weighting was probably a bad word but if you are saying comparing each player and the one with the higher win share wins so in the end you have 5 players to 2 that have higher win shares, you think you have the better supporting cast when the win shares between the 2 players you are comparing are only 1% apart. If you are adding the total of win shares of all relevant players then I would probably still have a problem with that because that also has flaws.

Why don't you answer my question about the bulls having a similar record without MJ.


Also, are we talking about the 1st 3peat?

 

[Robotech]

Wow, what a surprise that people think that teams from the past would've beaten teams from today. I think Jesse Owens would outrun Usain Bolt. It wouldn't even be close. How about that? Even Carl Lewis would beat Bolt.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Think he knows more than you?

NBA players are usually bias to their generation and for the most part it will always be like that. As much as people would like to say Jordan would beat him every time it most likely isn't true. MJ wouldn't stop Lebron and the other way around. Lebron has longer strides and is just as quick as him at his size. Yah MJ has the jumpshot over Lebron but post up MJ and he can't stop Lebron.

Anyone can see that by just looking at how they play. Outweighs him by 50 pounds