Analyzing Jack Z's trades

[wazzu31]

i agree with you wazzu but at the same time we have a payroll of around 80 million and sorry but this team will never have a 200 million let alone a 150 million dollar team which in itself makes it a mid to low market team. having said that it doesnt mean we cant knock off the big boys and i believe we will and soon

Then that is flat out saying the ownership group blows and should sell the team to someone who actually cares about baseball fans, not just catering to people who only go for lame promotions. With new TV deal they can easily raise payroll, be wise, but easily have the ability. Just because some rich dude decides to live in a trailor park does not mean that guy is poor.

 

[unlvmariners]

If you could redo the Pineda and Montero trade...would you?

Not sure how Pineda's shoulder problems will affect his career moving forward...but this kid was so electric while he was with us. Imagine having a healthy Pineda in that rotation with Felix and Iwak and eventually Walker or Hultzen or Erasmo filling out the rest of the rotation

I do still have faith in Montero...I think Smoak is a good example of why we shouldn't give up on a player too early...Montero is still young...but what's more valuable...a dominant starting pitcher or a hitter that's most likely going to dh? I think when Montero came here as a catcher his value at that position was high but as a dh...I'd favor a healthy Pineda over Montero

That is a tough one. I don't really think either of them are going to end up as anything special at the major league level. I don't have the stats on Pineda but wasn't his first half much better than his second half? Right now I think this trade is a wash but could very well go either way in the future.

 

[NWinAZ]

1st Half: 8-6 with 3.03 ERA
2nd Half: 1-4 with 5.12 ERA

Good call.

 

[wazzu31]

That is a tough one. I don't really think either of them are going to end up as anything special at the major league level. I don't have the stats on Pineda but wasn't his first half much better than his second half? Right now I think this trade is a wash but could very well go either way in the future.

I still think it is a horrible trade regardless of his 2nd half stats. You do not trade a young pitcher who was electric and an all star in his rookie season for a highly touted prospect that no baseball person said can actually play a position.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Its going to be tough to come out of that trade a winner at this point. Smoak may finally be figuring it out at 1st. If anyone of Ibanez/Morales/Morse are back next year or two of them then that possibly takes a alot of DH Abs. Montero may not necessarily have a place here any more.
Plus he has the possible PED suspension looming. It will be tough for him to make his way back if things continue to stay the same

 

[SeattleCoug]

I think if they would have pulled the plug on the Montero catching experiment last year, he could have been farther along. We had Jaso and Olivo last year so there was more depth at C at the MLB level. It would have been ideal for Montero to spend time in the minors last year and could have been DHing this year.
However if that happened he may not have dealt for Morales I suppose.

 

[NWinAZ]

I would have agreed with this a decade ago, but I feel today that young bats are worth more than young arms. I had a hard time accepting that since I am old school where pitching means everything would it comes to trade chips, but today lack of good hitting turned it around. I mean KC got 2 starting MLB pitchers for a hitter who never played in the majors.

I have no problem with the trade even though Montero hasn't been what was advertised, but I think the risk was worth it. Remember pitching has its own risks involved (Pineda injured, Hultzen injured, Bundy injured, etc). I also don't have a problem not having a position because they didn't trade for a catcher they traded for a hitter. Like SeattleCoug said above, "I think if they would have pulled the plug on the Montero catching experiment last year, he could have been farther along".

 

[dude82]

I would have agreed with this a decade ago, but I feel today that young bats are worth more than young arms. I had a hard time accepting that since I am old school where pitching means everything would it comes to trade chips, but today lack of good hitting turned it around. I mean KC got 2 starting MLB pitchers for a hitter who never played in the majors.

I have no problem with the trade even though Montero hasn't been what was advertised, but I think the risk was worth it. Remember pitching has its own risks involved (Pineda injured, Hultzen injured, Bundy injured, etc). I also don't have a problem not having a position because they didn't trade for a catcher they traded for a hitter. Like SeattleCoug said above, "I think if they would have pulled the plug on the Montero catching experiment last year, he could have been farther along".

I've said a couple times this year that the Mariners' insistence on improving Montero's defense as a catcher (and his running... for some reason), when they got him for his bat, took his focus away from the one thing that made him appealing enough to trade a young, potential (or so we thought at the time) top of the rotation starter for, made absolutely no sense. His focus in the off-season should have been his hitting, but my guess is that the Mariners heard all the whispers (and the shouts) that he didn't have a future at catcher in the major leagues because of his defense and tried to prove those whispers were wrong. Unfortunately, that attempt had the effect of stifling the value that he did have.

Fortunately, Montero is still very young and as long as the organization remembers that his value is in his hitting, he could still be a productive major league hitter for a long time. Having said that, his current injury and the PED scandal that his name is attached to have delayed that process and could delay it even further if he receives a punishment for the PED thing.

 

[broncosmitty]

Is Chance Ruffin in the Ms future plans? I know Furbush has, atleast at times, had success with you guys. Casper Wells didn't pan out, and Fransisco Martinez is back in the Tigers organization. Not that it was a blockbuster, but Fister has been a big part of the Tigers success the last two seasons. Wondering what you Seattle fans felt about that deal...

 

[dude82]

Is Chance Ruffin in the Ms future plans? I know Furbush has, atleast at times, had success with you guys. Casper Wells didn't pan out, and Fransisco Martinez is back in the Tigers organization. Not that it was a blockbuster, but Fister has been a big part of the Tigers success the last two seasons. Wondering what you Seattle fans felt about that deal...

Most people hated/hate the deal because of how well Fister is doing in Detroit and how little the Mariners received in return. Needless to say, it wasn't one of Zduriencik's better deals. As to your question about Ruffin... he is being converted into a starter down in the minors, but who knows what the M's plan to do with him after that. There will be a lot of competition for a spot in the rotation next year and I don't think most fans see him making it and if he did make it, that would mean that something happened to the guys everyone figured would make it first, so they may be converting him in an attempt to draw some offers from other teams.

That's my take, anyway.

 

[broncosmitty]

Thanks for the reply dude. As much as Fister has materred to the Tigers, Furbush would be big factor in Detroits bullpen. Smyly has been the only lefty worth anything. That was part of my wondering on Ruffins future. There's a hole in the staff, partly because that trade depleted the depth. And partly because the current Tigers relievers stink. Interesting that Chance is being moved to a starter. I'm not sure if he closed his entire time at Texas or not.

 

[cezero]

Thanks for the reply dude. As much as Fister has materred to the Tigers, Furbush would be big factor in Detroits bullpen. Smyly has been the only lefty worth anything. That was part of my wondering on Ruffins future. There's a hole in the staff, partly because that trade depleted the depth. And partly because the current Tigers relievers stink. Interesting that Chance is being moved to a starter. I'm not sure if he closed his entire time at Texas or not.

Oh god, mikenbig found this forum.

Fuck.

 

[broncosmitty]

Who the fuck is milkenbig?

 

[cezero]

for cbs people, make sure to avoid mikenbig (aka jakegibbs19) at all costs.

 

[broncosmitty]

Does he wonder if Chance Ruffin ever started for the Longhorns?

 

[blstoker]

Oh god, mikenbig found this forum.

Fuck.

Alright, people need to knock this crap off. Who cares who someone is or was on another forum. There have been way too many accusations on this site about people's alter-egos on other sites, and it has absolutely zero to do with the topics at hand. Base your opinion of someone's identity on what they say on this site. If you don't like it ignore them, but please stop the random calling out of people based on whether you liked/disliked who you thought they were on another site.

 

[blstoker]

Thanks for the reply dude. As much as Fister has materred to the Tigers, Furbush would be big factor in Detroits bullpen. Smyly has been the only lefty worth anything. That was part of my wondering on Ruffins future. There's a hole in the staff, partly because that trade depleted the depth. And partly because the current Tigers relievers stink. Interesting that Chance is being moved to a starter. I'm not sure if he closed his entire time at Texas or not.

The answer to the question about whether Ruffin started in Texas is yes. He made 28 starts for the Longhorns in '08-'09. Though I have no game logs, so can't say for sure how he did during those starts, but he was 18-5 in those seasons.

Chance Ruffin Baseball Statistics (2008-2013)

 

[unlvmariners]

Thanks for the reply dude. As much as Fister has materred to the Tigers, Furbush would be big factor in Detroits bullpen. Smyly has been the only lefty worth anything. That was part of my wondering on Ruffins future. There's a hole in the staff, partly because that trade depleted the depth. And partly because the current Tigers relievers stink. Interesting that Chance is being moved to a starter. I'm not sure if he closed his entire time at Texas or not.

I honestly don't think Chance Ruffin will ever be much of a factor for the Mariners unless it is a last resort situation because he happens to be on the 40 man roster. He is reaching a point in his career where he will start to get fazed out in place of others unless he proves himself the remainder of this season and next.

 

[broncosmitty]

Thanks stoker.

 

[cezero]

Alright, people need to knock this crap off. Who cares who someone is or was on another forum. There have been way too many accusations on this site about people's alter-egos on other sites, and it has absolutely zero to do with the topics at hand. Base your opinion of someone's identity on what they say on this site. If you don't like it ignore them, but please stop the random calling out of people based on whether you liked/disliked who you thought they were on another site.

It's true.

Little girls ARE emotional.

Hope you feel better now, sweetie.

Anyway, beware of Tigers trolls in particular. Mikenbig is the worst, but there are many of them.

The Tigers got the better end of the deal, obviously. That's fine. That's the way things go sometimes.