Game Thread: Chicago Bears @ Seattle Seahawks

[flyerhawk]

Well they did draft him and were very excited with his abilities and they didn't pin there hopes on Flynn per say, they had Tavaris Jackson in a trade, drafted RW and signed Flynn as a free agent. Not easy hitting on a QB and they explored every avenue. If Pete wasn't so set at winning every game , maybe they could of drafted Luck ( as it turns out RW was the better QB, but just saying....)

We weren't close to drafting Luck. And the point is that PC was very fortunate that Russ turned out the way he did because he wasn't winning shit with Tavaris Jackson or Matt Flynn.

 

[flyerhawk]

No he's not in his prime anymore because his strongest ability ( break the pocket and extend plays) is gone and I doubt it's coming back.

Wow are you being a victim of recency bias. First 4 games this year. 9 TDs 0 Ints. 100+ passer rating.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

We weren't close to drafting Luck. And the point is that PC was very fortunate that Russ turned out the way he did because he wasn't winning shit with Tavaris Jackson or Matt Flynn.

Every head coach needs a good QB and every QB needs a good coach. It was fortunate for all involved it worked out.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Wow are you being a victim of recency bias. First 4 games this year. 9 TDs 0 Ints. 100+ passer rating.

Those were off the back off the long bombs once those got shutdown RW play suffered accordingly, same thing last year. RW has not adjusted to the defense and stubbornly keeps trying to go long even though his targets are double covered. He does have a pair of outstanding WRs in Lockett and Metcalf so I get the desire, but you got to use the entire field and involve the TEs ,RBs and the third WRs. I've seen him do so in 2 minute drills and in fact he makes them his first look in 2 minute drills, but the rest of the game he keeps looking long first then to leave the pocket second and he can't get away from the defenders anymore.

 

[flyerhawk]

Every head coach needs a good QB and every QB needs a good coach. It was fortunate for all involved it worked out.

Well sure. But that wasn't what you were saying earlier.

 

[flyerhawk]

Those were off the back off the long bombs once those got shutdown RW play suffered accordingly, same thing last year. RW has not adjusted to the defense and stubbornly keeps trying to go long even though his targets are double covered. He does have a pair of outstanding WRs in Lockett and Metcalf so I get the desire, but you got to use the entire field and involve the TEs ,RBs and the third WRs. I've seen him do so in 2 minute drills and in fact he makes them his first look in 2 minute drills, but the rest of the game he keeps looking long first then to leave the pocket second and he can't get away from the defenders anymore.

You think the problem is RW? He forgot how to throw intermediate balls? You don't think that maybe that is the gameplan? Or does Russ constantly go rogue and do whatever he likes?

 

[Judge Fudge]

@flyerhawk

We went 5-11. How can we improve this team. We can't. The ride is over.


So why not build something new so in 3-5 years we can be competing?

If it isn't Russ then who can we use to build a new foundation with the draft?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Well sure. But that wasn't what you were saying earlier.

Not exactly so. I was giving Pete the credit for the SB championship because he deserved it.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

You think the problem is RW? He forgot how to throw intermediate balls? You don't think that maybe that is the gameplan? Or does Russ constantly go rogue and do whatever he likes?

If you think any head coach is going to be upset because his QB hit a open intermediate pass and passed up a doubled covered WR down field further I don't know what to say. I've heard it said before that RW keeps throwing long because Pete wants that, but Pete wants completions and wants to avoid turnovers so it's a asinine take to blame Pete for RW desire for throwing long IMO.

 

[flyerhawk]

If you think any head coach is going to be upset because his QB hit a open intermediate pass and passed up a doubled covered WR down field further I don't know what to say. I've heard it said before that RW keeps throwing long because Pete wants that, but Pete wants completions and wants to avoid turnovers so it's a asinine take to blame Pete for RW desire for throwing long IMO.

And maybe Pete tells Russ that he would rather he throw the deep bomb rather than the intermediate pass because the risk is less? Even if we assume the risk of a pick is about the same on either throw, the fact that one is 30 yards further down the field makes it less risky.

IMO, coaches create the gameplan and the QBs carry it out.

Why is this team so bad at screens? Because Russ can't throw a 5 yard pass?

 

[flyerhawk]

@flyerhawk

We went 5-11. How can we improve this team. We can't. The ride is over.


So why not build something new so in 3-5 years we can be competing?

If it isn't Russ then who can we use to build a new foundation with the draft?

You think that there is no way to improve this team without getting rid of Russ?

 

[MrS]

It's amazing how, no matter where everyone else is, you ALWAYS are pushing for the more extreme option. And when we are 2-14 in 2 years you'll be calling for a new GM and new coach and new QB. And then 2 years after that. And so on and so on.

even at our worst with mora we werent 2-14. as it is RIGHT NOW, we are a 5 win team I dont know why we are ok with this.

The good teams don't blow everything up and just hope for the best. The Steelers aren't going to get rid of Big Ben, Tomlin and Colbert this offseason.

maybe not, but what have they done lately? maybe they should

Our projected cap space for 2022 is 52 million dollars right now. They have 6 draft picks next year. How bout knock off the hyperbole?

have you looked at our FAs? basically our entire OL. 52 right now might as well be 0. you are right about the draft picks, I was thinking of last year and our 3 picks.

Well blowing it all up, closing our eyes and wishing for the best is gonna guarantee a lot more than a couple of losing seasons.

we are guaranteed at least two, including this year.

You have that backwards. The team was terrible for YEARS. Behring didn't start trying to move the team until 95. And he certainly wasn't the reason we drafted Dan McGwire or Rick Mirer or Kelly Stouffer.

I remember reading that the mcgwire pick came from the top, maybe im wrong on that one. regardless ken behring was an awful owner and I 100% believe his intent was to move the team from day 1.

Yeah that makes sense. Maybe he should pay the Seahawks for the privilege of playing with them.

hes not worth a 37-40m cap hit

Wilson plays within the system that Pete wants him to play in.

he is the one throwing deep on 3rd and 4 consistently

 

[Judge Fudge]

You think that there is no way to improve this team without getting rid of Russ?

There could be....

Jags are my team 2. I was watching their game yesterday and James Lofton was talking about how they need to pay for a #1.

Maybe Metcalf+ for the 1st

Or

Metcalf for a 2nd

 

[HaroldSeattle]

And maybe Pete tells Russ that he would rather he throw the deep bomb rather than the intermediate pass because the risk is less? Even if we assume the risk of a pick is about the same on either throw, the fact that one is 30 yards further down the field makes it less risky.

IMO, coaches create the gameplan and the QBs carry it out.

Why is this team so bad at screens? Because Russ can't throw a 5 yard pass?

The long ball has been double covered since mid season last year and I'm not buying that RW is getting told to keep throwing them any how. He throws them because he loves hitting on those bombs. As for the rest, things always work better if the ground game is clicking, it's been unfortunate that the better RBs on the team are rarely healthy.

 

[MrS]

I could see a scenerio where we trade DK. They don't use him as they should, with Lockett being RW's clear #1 option, and he can obviously be an issue with his attitude (and I can't really blame him). WRs can be replaced. Even a physical freak like DK isn't irreplaceable, while, as Seahawk's history has proven, a franchise QB is.

We should trade metcalf, great player but he obviously does not want to be here and does not like wilson and I dont blame him one bit. he is way under utilized.

Well of course. I don't think anyone expects Russ to be a MVP candidate in his late 30s. But RIGHT NOW he's still in his prime.

he is in his prime age wise, but past his prime as a player. his #1 strength is gone and so far he hasnt shown that he will make up for it by being a better passer.

And Rodgers might be the greatest QB to ever play.

Russ is a unicorn in that he's a mobile QB that rarely gets hurt and was always a pass first QB. His body hasn't taken the beating that a lot of mobile QBs has because he was always smart about the hits he took.

not mobile, and now he has an injury history.

You think that there is no way to improve this team without getting rid of Russ?

his salary is too big and by the time we rebuild he will be too old. strike while the iron is hot, give him a chance to succeed and win a SB with another team because it isnt happening here.

There could be....

Jags are my team 2. I was watching their game yesterday and James Lofton was talking about how they need to pay for a #1.

Maybe Metcalf+ for the 1st

Or

Metcalf for a 2nd

id say a 2nd this year and their #1 next year plus maybe a 3rd.

 

[AceKeptic]

Not exactly so. I was giving Pete the credit for the SB championship because he deserved it.

True, there is that. The problem with Pete is that he couldn't change his game plan as the roster changed. He still thought he could get the same results after the Legion of Boom was dismantling

Going with Russ so soon after his finger surgery certainly didn't help matters much this year, either.

No, as much as I appreciate what he HAD done for us, it's time for him to step down.

 

[flyerhawk]

The long ball has been double covered since mid season last year and I'm not buying that RW is getting told to keep throwing them any how. He throws them because he loves hitting on those bombs. As for the rest, things always work better if the ground game is clicking, it's been unfortunate that the better RBs on the team are rarely healthy.

Well I'm not a mind reader but I suspect that what Russ cares most about is winning.

Either Russ forgot how to throw intermediate routes or our offense isn't structured to focus on those plays. If your receivers doing go routes, then they are obviously not doing curls or slants.

I want to be clear here. I think Russ is having his worst season as a pro. But I also think that the entire team is fundamentally broken.

Russ is the best play action passer in the league right now and yet we are a below league average. This offense is incapable of playing up tempo. And ultimately defenses find it too predictable.

Our offense has ALWAYS been built the same way. Run the ball and then make deep shots when the defense comes in. But I see no evidence that the team can adapt when they are being stymied.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I honestly don't blame Norton all that much. Pete runs this defense and his system has always been Cover-3/Man-Zone. And it worked incredible well when you had a corner that shut down one side of the field(Sherman), a FS that could cover the rest of the deep field(Thomas) and a SS that put the fear of god into players running crossers(Kam).

I think the defense has some talent. I've actually been pleasantly surprised by the DL performance this year. It's not elite certainly but Taylor and Robinson are legit impact players and I could see Taylor be a Pro Bowler. But our scheme allows QBs to get rid of the ball way too quickly. And that isn't going to change until Pete moves on.

Where I can’t stand about Norton is how he never makes adjustments when it’s not working, drives me bat @@$ crazy ! He’s the man with the headset on, blitz! Run man, mix it up … I doubt Pete is like Norton, run cover 3 and that’s it! You know Ken is calling some shots as the D coordinator he’s just not very innovative … I like the guy, I’m totally cool keeping him around is they decide that, just get someone in there that can read an offense and make adjustments when needed … I watched an interview where Pete said he lets his coordinators call the shots, he allows them to grow and be who they are as coaches….

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

People thought Rodgers was slowing down in McCarthy's final year. Change coach and scheme and he's back and looks even better. I don't want to dump Russ without giving him a chance with a young up coming coach with fresh eyes. Just look down the road and see what McVay did for Goff and Goff isn't very good.

Oh no doubt, coaches can make a difference, I’m just a little worried about Russ’s particular skill set not aging really well combined with his height throwing from the pocket… If we want something for him it’s now or never … Certain teams in league are gonna see Russ as making them a Super Bowl contender instantly …

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

The chances that the Seahawks would get a competent QB much less a Pro Bowl QB much less a Hall of Fame level QB with a single draft pick next year are close to nil. Let's take a look at the QBs drafted in the 1st round in the past few years. I'll skip the previous 3 years as it may be too early to tell with those guys...

2019 - Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins
2018 - Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson
2017 - Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson
2016 - Goff, Wentz, Paxton Lynch
2015 - Winston, Mariota
2014 - Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater

20 QBs selected in those drafts. One Hall of Fame talent(Mahomes), 4 Pro Bowl Talents(Watson, Allen, Jackson, Murray), 15 players that vary between pure bust and league average.

IMO, the chances of us getting a top flight coach are dramatically higher with Russ here than some schlub or prayer taken in the draft.

So, yeah, I agree. Bring in a new staff and see what they can do. It's the only shot we have of getting back to a title contender in the next 2-5 years.

I wouldn’t even take a QB with a first pick honestly, such a gamble … If we let Russ go we’re most likely gonna suck for a while…