Actuallly....Sam Darnold

[chillerdab]

Of course there should be. You cant just give up on the guy at his age and talent level. a 2nd or 3rd round pick is not an overpay. Considering the QB trades in the past, not even close.

Teams give up on quarterbacks all the time, despite their talent level.

Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler, JaMarcus Russel, Dwayne Haskins, Josh Rosen are just a few of the first round qb's that were given up by their original teams based on a faulty evaluation of their talent level.

In fact, there was a tweet floating around from "Field Yates" that stated that every single quarterback drafted in the first round from 2009-2016 - all 22 of them - were not on the team that drafted them.

Minshew on the 1-15 Jags outplayed Darnold. So did Mike Glennon - a career backup.

Tannenhill was traded WITH a sixth round pick for a 4th and a 7th, AFTER he had two relatively promising seasons in miami.

QB Index: Ranking the 59 starting quarterbacks of the 2020 NFL season

www.nfl.com

According the website Stymie found, listed above, Darnold rated worse than pretty much every other possibly available qb this offseason:
Garropolo, Cam Newton, Wentz, Trubisky, Bridgewater, and even Alex Smith. Gardner Minshew rated better than he did.

Backups Taysom Hill and Andy Dalton rated better than Darnold. So did Fitzmagic.

It's clear, especially after looking at Stymie's qb comparison, that you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[chillerdab]

Golden Nuggets: Sam Darnold is reportedly available for a second round pick

Your daily San Francisco 49ers links for Saturday, February 20, 2021

www.ninersnation.com

From the article:

"It would be stunning if a team — Washington or otherwise — offered anything more than a second round pick for Darnold."

The Jets want a second round pick. I wouldn't even do it for a third, but there's no way you do it for a second roudner. That's insane.

Low Risk, High Reward or No Reward?

Considering what quarterback Carson Wentz went for despite his past success, the thought of giving up value for someone who has done what Sam Darnold has with the New York Jets would be a real gamble by the Chicago Bears.

www.si.com

From the article above:

"Darnold has shown very little ability like a first-round pick should have since coming to the New York Jets with the third pick overall in 2018.

Various scouting reports and web analysis has turned up several flaws and one repeated over and over is how his footwork and throwing fundamentals appear off. He's also cited repeatedly for making unwise decisions ending in risky throws into coverage."

"Pro Football Focus' assessment of Darnold's performance is scathing. Sam Monson of PFF wrote "...since entering the league at the No. 3 pick back in 2018, Darnold ranks second-to-last in passing grade, second-to-last in uncatchable pass rate on passes thrown beyond the line of scrimmage, fifth-to-last in turnover-worthy play rate and third-to-last in big-time throw rate."

Benjamin Solak of the Draft Network described him gunshy after being hammered numerous times behind poor pass blocking.

Not that passer rating means everything, but for three seasons Darnold has been about at a level Trubisky was as a rookie. He had ratings of 77.6, 84.3 and 72.7. that's Blake Bortles bad. That's Christian Ponder bad.
onsidering what the Eagles got for a quarterback once perceived as an MVP candidate for a Super Bowl champion, and how Darnold has produced nothing, anything greater than one third-round pick would be too rich and risky for the Bears."

 

[deanpet21]

Teams give up on quarterbacks all the time, despite their talent level.

Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler, JaMarcus Russel, Dwayne Haskins, Josh Rosen are just a few of the first round qb's that were given up by their original teams based on a faulty evaluation of their talent level.

In fact, there was a tweet floating around from "Field Yates" that stated that every single quarterback drafted in the first round from 2009-2016 - all 22 of them - were not on the team that drafted them.

Minshew on the 1-15 Jags outplayed Darnold. So did Mike Glennon - a career backup.

Tannenhill was traded WITH a sixth round pick for a 4th and a 7th, AFTER he had two relatively promising seasons in miami.

QB Index: Ranking the 59 starting quarterbacks of the 2020 NFL season

www.nfl.com

According the website Stymie found, listed above, Darnold rated worse than pretty much every other possibly available qb this offseason:
Garropolo, Cam Newton, Wentz, Trubisky, Bridgewater, and even Alex Smith. Gardner Minshew rated better than he did.

Backups Taysom Hill and Andy Dalton rated better than Darnold. So did Fitzmagic.

It's clear, especially after looking at Stymie's qb comparison, that you don't know what you are talking about.

lol. I dont know what im talking about? The argument is that you dont think Darnold is worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick. So why did Rosen get
Rosen was traded to Miami during draft weekend in April 2019 for a 2019 second-round pick and a 2020 fifth-round pick.

So how isn't Darnold worth a 2nd or 3rd????? You dont know what you are talking about when it comes to draft compensation. If Rosen got a 2nd an 5th Darnlod should get the same thing. Why is that so hard to understand? You are entitled to your opinion if you dont like Darnold the QB but it doesnt matter, that is what his trade value is worth hence the Rosen trade. Do you want to make a friendly bet Darnold fetches a 2nd or 3rd if the Jets deal him?

 

[Stymietee]

Golden Nuggets: Sam Darnold is reportedly available for a second round pick

Your daily San Francisco 49ers links for Saturday, February 20, 2021

www.ninersnation.com

From the article:

"It would be stunning if a team — Washington or otherwise — offered anything more than a second round pick for Darnold."

The Jets want a second round pick. I wouldn't even do it for a third, but there's no way you do it for a second roudner. That's insane.

Low Risk, High Reward or No Reward?

Considering what quarterback Carson Wentz went for despite his past success, the thought of giving up value for someone who has done what Sam Darnold has with the New York Jets would be a real gamble by the Chicago Bears.

www.si.com

From the article above:

"Darnold has shown very little ability like a first-round pick should have since coming to the New York Jets with the third pick overall in 2018.

Various scouting reports and web analysis has turned up several flaws and one repeated over and over is how his footwork and throwing fundamentals appear off. He's also cited repeatedly for making unwise decisions ending in risky throws into coverage."

"Pro Football Focus' assessment of Darnold's performance is scathing. Sam Monson of PFF wrote "...since entering the league at the No. 3 pick back in 2018, Darnold ranks second-to-last in passing grade, second-to-last in uncatchable pass rate on passes thrown beyond the line of scrimmage, fifth-to-last in turnover-worthy play rate and third-to-last in big-time throw rate."

Benjamin Solak of the Draft Network described him gunshy after being hammered numerous times behind poor pass blocking.

Not that passer rating means everything, but for three seasons Darnold has been about at a level Trubisky was as a rookie. He had ratings of 77.6, 84.3 and 72.7. that's Blake Bortles bad. That's Christian Ponder bad.
onsidering what the Eagles got for a quarterback once perceived as an MVP candidate for a Super Bowl champion, and how Darnold has produced nothing, anything greater than one third-round pick would be too rich and risky for the Bears."

When his name was originally mentioned as a possibility, I stated then and stick with that original statement about Darnold. To paraphrase, "If Washington has any interest in Sam Darnold then their best bet to get him comes in waiting for the Jets to decide upon what they are going to do at QB."
If they release him then it's a matter of money, if they keep him then he's not an option.

 

[deanpet21]

When his name was originally mentioned as a possibility, I stated then and stick with that original statement about Darnold. To paraphrase, "If Washington has any interest in Sam Darnold then their best bet to get him comes in waiting for the Jets to decide upon what they are going to do at QB."
If they release him then it's a matter of money, if they keep him then he's not an option.

stym, The Jets are going to trade Darnold before the draft.

 

[skinsdad62]

Skinsdad, would you feel some type of way, if the website decided to make the JETS moderator , the new Skins moderator of this forum.
And half of us were like, well THAT dude will DEFINITELY do a better job than Skinsdad?
I kinda feel that way with Darnold

i think only half will like most available qbs not counting DW or RW

 

[Stymietee]

lol. I dont know what im talking about? The argument is that you dont think Darnold is worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick. So why did Rosen get
Rosen was traded to Miami during draft weekend in April 2019 for a 2019 second-round pick and a 2020 fifth-round pick.

So how isn't Darnold worth a 2nd or 3rd????? You dont know what you are talking about when it comes to draft compensation. If Rosen got a 2nd an 5th Darnlod should get the same thing. Why is that so hard to understand? You are entitled to your opinion if you dont like Darnold the QB but it doesnt matter, that is what his trade value is worth hence the Rosen trade. Do you want to make a friendly bet Darnold fetches a 2nd or 3rd if the Jets deal him?

@Dean, I give you great props for standing strong on your POV's, but using Josh Rosen as a relative comparison doesn't help you. Do you have another QB to use in support of your reason to get Darnold? Rosen was the overall 10th pick in the 2018 draft, thus far he's hasn't panned out, or to be fair, wasn't given much opportunity in the stops that he's had. Darnold was selected by the Jets and given time to prove himself more than what he has albeit on a very bad team with horrific head coaches. These are the places where Rosen had stops.

NFL Draft

2018 / Round: 1 / Pick: 10

Career history

2018 – 2018 : Arizona Cardinals
2019 – 2019 : Miami Dolphins
2020 – 2020 : Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2020 – present : San Francisco 49ers


QB Josh Rosen signs one-year deal with 49ers
Rosen was part of the Buccaneers' practice squad when San Francisco found itself in need of quarterback depth late ... as much as possible with the 49ers. Josh Allen enjoyed a breakout campaign ...
NFL11d

 

[skinsdad62]

i think heine will now be called shane falco (falco by me ) . we have clifford franklin dont we ?

 

[deanpet21]

@Dean, I give you great props for standing strong on your POV's, but using Josh Rosen as a relative comparison doesn't help you. Do you have another QB to use in support of your reason to get Darnold? Rosen was the overall 10th pick in the 2018 draft, thus far he's hasn't panned out, or to be fair, wasn't given much opportunity in the stops that he's had. Darnold was selected by the Jets and given time to prove himself more than what he has albeit on a very bad team with horrific head coaches. These are the places where Rosen had stops.

NFL Draft

2018 / Round: 1 / Pick: 10

Career history

2018 – 2018 : Arizona Cardinals
2019 – 2019 : Miami Dolphins
2020 – 2020 : Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2020 – present : San Francisco 49ers


QB Josh Rosen signs one-year deal with 49ers
Rosen was part of the Buccaneers' practice squad when San Francisco found itself in need of quarterback depth late ... as much as possible with the 49ers. Josh Allen enjoyed a breakout campaign ...
NFL11d

Im using Rosen as a example b/c he was drafted high and failed where he went. He was written off after that and still brought in a 2nd and 5th. Its the same thing with Darnold. the draft compensation should be the same

 

[Stymietee]

stym, The Jets are going to trade Darnold before the draft.

OK, but keep in mind that Carson Wentz also had trade offers from two teams. The smart move for all 31 remaining teams is to NOT make offers. Force the Jets to draft "their guy" then release Darnold.

I believe you when you opine that there's going to be a market for Darnold, but honestly it's not a smart thing for the other teams to engage in if the Jets are putting him on the trade market.

 

[deanpet21]

OK, but keep in mind that Carson Wentz also had trade offers from two teams. The smart move for all 31 remaining teams is to NOT make offers. Force the Jets to draft "their guy" then release Darnold.

I believe you when you opine that there's going to be a market for Darnold, but honestly it's not a smart thing for the other teams to engage in if the Jets are putting him on the trade market.

Actually the Bears never gave an offer for Wentz. The Eagles had one team interested and still got a 1 and 3.

 

[Stymietee]

Im using Rosen as a example b/c he was drafted high and failed where he went. He was written off after that and still brought in a 2nd and 5th. Its the same thing with Darnold. the draft compensation should be the same

While Darnold isn't failing he's not ringing any bells either but at least he was given the opportunity to show what he could do over time. Rosen has spent one season at every stop that he's made indicating that he hasn't shown much in workouts and practice. Do you really want to compare Darnold ( a 3 year starter) to this?

Career history

2018 – 2018 : Arizona Cardinals
2019 – 2019 : Miami Dolphins
2020 – 2020 : Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2020 – present : San Francisco 49ers

 

[Stymietee]

Actually the Bears never gave an offer for Wentz. The Eagles had one team interested and still got a 1 and 3.

Some market huh?

 

[deanpet21]

While Darnold isn't failing he's not ringing any bells either but at least he was given the opportunity to show what he could do over time. Rosen has spent one season at every stop that he's made indicating that he hasn't shown much in workouts and practice. Do you really want to compare Darnold ( a 3 year starter) to this?

Career history

2018 – 2018 : Arizona Cardinals
2019 – 2019 : Miami Dolphins
2020 – 2020 : Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2020 – present : San Francisco 49ers

Im comparing draft compensation. He shouldn't bring less than Rosen.

 

[chillerdab]

lol. I dont know what im talking about? The argument is that you dont think Darnold is worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick. So why did Rosen get
Rosen was traded to Miami during draft weekend in April 2019 for a 2019 second-round pick and a 2020 fifth-round pick.

So how isn't Darnold worth a 2nd or 3rd????? You dont know what you are talking about when it comes to draft compensation. If Rosen got a 2nd an 5th Darnlod should get the same thing. Why is that so hard to understand? You are entitled to your opinion if you dont like Darnold the QB but it doesnt matter, that is what his trade value is worth hence the Rosen trade. Do you want to make a friendly bet Darnold fetches a 2nd or 3rd if the Jets deal him?

You find one example of a qb being traded as a supporting argument, and ignore the mountains of data that everybody else has collected that prove you dont know what you are talking about.

It's hilarious, really.

Rosen was traded for the 62nd pick - practically the last pick in the second round.

Also, Rosen hadn't yet had 3 extra years of suckage to compare to, like Darnold has.
Also, Rosen was going to a brand new head coach who had multiple picks to play with, having already traded Tunsil.
Also Arizona practically had to trade him, becuase they had already drafted kyler murray.

It's not a comparable situation.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Im using Rosen as a example b/c he was drafted high and failed where he went. He was written off after that and still brought in a 2nd and 5th. Its the same thing with Darnold. the draft compensation should be the same

I bet the Dolphins organization is kicking themselves thinking they could "fix" Rosen. He reminds me of Jimmy Clausen, massive amount of hype and talent that just didn't translate to the pro level. Dean, you KNOW i'm willing to roll with you on various scenarios but say for instance, The WFT.
we have the leverage...we KNOW a new regime wants to groom their own players....as mentioned it would be desperate to include a 2nd.
You simply don't have to offer it.

 

[Stymietee]

Im comparing draft compensation. He shouldn't bring less than Rosen.

OK, I agree with you IF there's a market or a single buyer, but again the smart thing for the other 31 teams comes through waiting. What's the rush? Darnold is either going to be released or maintained by the Jets. It won't be a lost opportunity to NOT get him even when/if released.

 

[deanpet21]

You find one example of a qb being traded as a supporting argument, and ignore the mountains of data that everybody else has collected that prove you dont know what you are talking about.

It's hilarious, really.

Rosen was traded for the 62nd pick - practically the last pick in the second round.

Also, Rosen hadn't yet had 3 extra years of suckage to compare to, like Darnold has.
Also, Rosen was going to a brand new head coach who had multiple picks to play with, having already traded Tunsil.
Also Arizona practically had to trade him, becuase they had already drafted kyler murray.

It's not a comparable situation.

Of course it is in draft compensation. He still brought a 2nd and 5th being a young failed QB. that is what Darnold is.

 

[chillerdab]

He is absolutely going to bring in less than Rosen got. 100%.

No team is going to give the jets and second and fifth round pick for Darnold. When you're wrong, make sure you let it be known that you are wrong.

I'll do the same.

 

[deanpet21]

I bet the Dolphins organization is kicking themselves thinking they could "fix" Rosen. He reminds me of Jimmy Clausen, massive amount of hype and talent that just didn't translate to the pro level. Dean, you KNOW i'm willing to roll with you on various scenarios but say for instance, The WFT.
we have the leverage...we KNOW a new regime wants to groom their own players....as mentioned it would be desperate to include a 2nd.
You simply don't have to offer it.

Sure we dont but its very possible we do. I think we will offer a 3rd, we have two. but Chiller and others think a 2nd or 3rd is crazy. Its not. Especially in our situation. Sure its a risk but there are rumors that we are interested.