Schotty fired

[HaroldSeattle]

Agreed. The problem is that for the running game to really work you need 2 things.

A lethal play action
A very strong defense.

The Titans never were going to go far because they had the 1st but not the 2nd.

We just can't spend the entire 1st half against good teams trying to establish the run. We just wind up too far behind.

Just need a run game to keep defenses honest. Dang those jail breaks on RW were painful to watch. Really no QB can consistently perform with that type of pressure dang near every pass play. Hopefully the defense can continue making strides like they did the second half of the season.

 

[Podunkparte]

Just need a run game to keep defenses honest. Dang those jail breaks on RW were painful to watch. Really no QB can consistently perform with that type of pressure dang near every pass play. Hopefully the defense can continue making strides like they did the second half of the season.

Yes, Pete has said himself he doesn't want to "run more." He wants to run more effectively. Sometimes that means running more, but it really means having the threat to run anytime, which keeps the D honest.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Pederson being tossed around......

Bad idea

 

[Cave_Johnson]

Completely down with this move. The dude couldn't adjust at all this year.

Just please nobody like Doug fuckin' Peterson, Adam Gase, Bevell again, or Turd Cutter, as the replacement.

Hoping for some young blood.

 

[flyerhawk]

Talk of Shane Steichen being considered.

But, yay, he will run the ball more!! We will for sure return to the glory days of 2013 now!

 

[flyerhawk]

Completely down with this move. The dude couldn't adjust at all this year.

Just please nobody like Doug fuckin' Peterson, Adam Gase, Bevell again, or Turd Cutter, as the replacement.

Hoping for some young blood.

I'm perfectly fine with getting rid of Schotty. He completely failed to adjust to defenses that adjusted to the offense.

But I am not hopeful about who Pete will bring in

 

[Cave_Johnson]

I'm perfectly fine with getting rid of Schotty. He completely failed to adjust to defenses that adjusted to the offense.

But I am not hopeful about who Pete will bring in

Neither am I. I think it could very likely be someone I just listed. Them or somebody like Bill O'Brian or Hugh Jackson.

bleh

 

[uwdawgfan]

By who?

Softy....lol

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Neither am I. I think it could very likely be someone I just listed. Them or somebody like Bill O'Brian or Hugh Jackson.

bleh

Don't worry about BoB, he's off to Bama. Not even sure where Hugh Jackson is.

 

[Screamin12th]

Shocked they did this so fast but also it is the right move and i think we all seen it coming. I have said in other threads look at his history as a OC, we got everything he has shown in his previous jobs. an average OC for maybe 20-40% of the season then trash. He didn't adjust he cant adjust and he never has adjusted. Smart move by the team as Shotty started to retard Wilsons growth. Bravo for pulling the strings so quick Pete, glad you could see what many of us could see.

 

[flyerhawk]

Completely down with this move. The dude couldn't adjust at all this year.

Just please nobody like Doug fuckin' Peterson, Adam Gase, Bevell again, or Turd Cutter, as the replacement.

Hoping for some young blood.

I'm perfectly fine with getting rid of Schotty. He completely failed to adjust to defenses that adjusted to the offense.

But I am not hopeful about who Pete will bring in

 

[flyerhawk]

Neither am I. I think it could very likely be someone I just listed. Them or somebody like Bill O'Brian or Hugh Jackson.

bleh

Well Bill O'Brien is going to be the Alabama OC so you don't need to worry about him.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

That was quick, kinda crazy when you consider we were the number 1 offense in the NFL for a while.... but clearly he didn’t adjust in that playoff game worth a dam and that doomed him ... Now let’s replace Norton, because our defense couldn’t adjust and stop a QB with a broken thumb from big play after big play ... Time for a fresh perspective ...

 

[Tech_God]

I agree with this move. However, I am calling Russell out from now on. He's an elite QB, that needs to take ownership of the offense.

 

[Screamin12th]

I agree with this move. However, I am calling Russell out from now on. He's an elite QB, that needs to take ownership of the offense.

It's hard when they wouldn't allow Russell to play like Russell. How many Designed runs did we see this year or RPO? hell they were so few i don't know how many there were. How many RB screens? i would say for the first 6 games they had like 2 or 3 a game then .... poof. It came down to one thing, Schotty couldn't design a competent offense around very competent players.

The good news though is the Defense had 46 sacks thats almost double what they had Last season. From 3rd worst team in the NFL to 6th best in that area. Think about that only 5 teams in the NFL had more sacks than Seattle and we had almost no pass rush for the first what 6-8 games and was close to dead last. No team was creating more pressure than the Hawks were over the last half of the Season.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

It's hard when they wouldn't allow Russell to play like Russell. How many Designed runs did we see this year or RPO? hell they were so few i don't know how many there were. How many RB screens? i would say for the first 6 games they had like 2 or 3 a game then .... poof. It came down to one thing, Schotty couldn't design a competent offense around very competent players.

The good news though is the Defense had 46 sacks thats almost double what they had Last season. From 3rd worst team in the NFL to 6th best in that area. Think about that only 5 teams in the NFL had more sacks than Seattle and we had almost no pass rush for the first what 6-8 games and was close to dead last. No team was creating more pressure than the Hawks were over the last half of the Season.

When it comes to Russ running I honestly think Russ would rather not. He's not that slim trimmed kid that was a gym rat in his early years and he's not as fast or as quick and those bruises take longer to recover from now.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Fine with this.

Schottenheimer's entire strategy seemed to be chucking the ball DEEP down field or making sure Wilson had 6+ seconds (thanks to Wilson evading tacklers) to find an open receiver. Defenses seemed to catch on real quick (about mid season) and Wilson was not getting the time. Why the hell were we running DEEP LONG developing routes when the Rams were consistently getting pressure in < 4 seconds on us?

In addition, the shift didn't make sense from what we were doing the first half. We started going heavy run first which sure I get, but the formations were NOT making sense with either switching to run heavy or what the defense was able to improve on. Zero slants, hardly any motion, constantly getting to the line with minimal time to make adjustments... the whole offense went into SLUG mode with the entire emphasis on the pass seeming to derive from DEEP balls (huh?). And I'm not sure if that's Carroll or Schotty... but regardless at least one needed to go.

Lastly, Carson/Penny and most of the RBs were out when Seattle shifted the strat to a heavy run first. I get our OL was not healthy as well... but the offensive PASSING strategy didn't change AT ALL. Schotty simply couldn't make the adjustment when teams adjusted, recipe for a poor OC. Obviously we started out the season catching teams by surprise with a 'never before seen' Seahawks passing attack. Once teams caught on, we simply couldn't adjust and play the chess game.

 

[flyerhawk]

Seahawks' Pete Carroll reminds us who is boss, parts with Brian Schottenheimer

Offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer will not return to the Seahawks due to “philosophical differences” with Pete Carroll.

theathletic.com

Pretty good article that I think his the nail on the head. Ultimately it may not matter who our OC is because Pete is going to want to run the offense the way he wants to run the offense.

For good or bad, Pete wants to run a low risk offense. He would rather the offense go 3 and out than risk a turnover because he believes that turnovers determine the outcome of the game. Which is generally true. But I think that is a limiting philosophy that will have a really tough time in the playoffs UNLESS you have an absolutely dominant defense.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Seahawks' Pete Carroll reminds us who is boss, parts with Brian Schottenheimer

Offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer will not return to the Seahawks due to “philosophical differences” with Pete Carroll.

theathletic.com

Pretty good article that I think his the nail on the head. Ultimately it may not matter who our OC is because Pete is going to want to run the offense the way he wants to run the offense.

For good or bad, Pete wants to run a low risk offense. He would rather the offense go 3 and out than risk a turnover because he believes that turnovers determine the outcome of the game. Which is generally true. But I think that is a limiting philosophy that will have a really tough time in the playoffs UNLESS you have an absolutely dominant defense.

Can you post the article since I'm sure many don't subscribe to The Athletic? Here's another good one.

https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nfl/seattle-seahawks/article248463920.html

And just having read it basically that article and Carroll/Schotty's interaction is exactly what I said above lol... course it wasn't hard to see the writing on the wall.

 

[flyerhawk]

Can you post the article since I'm sure many don't subscribe to The Athletic? Here's another good one.

https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nfl/seattle-seahawks/article248463920.html

And just having read it basically that article and Carroll/Schotty's interaction is exactly what I said above lol... course it wasn't hard to see the writing on the wall.

It's a pretty long article but I'll post some snippets..

Trailing by 10 points in the fourth quarter of its wild-card game Saturday afternoon, Seattle prepared to go for it on fourth-and-1 from its own 34-yard line. Right guard Damien Lewis suffered an injury on the previous play, and the stoppage gave the Seahawks more time than usual to discuss a crucial decision.


In that time — roughly two minutes — a play call came in. But head coach Pete Carroll wanted a different one. A debate ensued and they wound up choosing Carroll’s play. Russell Wilson re-entered the huddle with 20 seconds on the play clock. The huddle broke with 6 seconds remaining. Wilson began his cadence and three players moved too early. Right guard Jordan Simmons was flagged for a false start and the Seahawks were forced to punt. They eventually lost the game and ended their season.

The entire sequence was a mess, but the part about Carroll’s input stood out. Head coaches chiming in during high-leverage situations is nothing new. Every coach does it. After all, it’s their butts on the line; they’re naturally inclined to insert themselves into the decision. This is Carroll’s team. Offense, defense, special teams, personnel — it’s all Carroll, who moonlights as the executive vice president of football operations.

The story of Seattle’s 2020 season was not about the offensive adjustments Schottenheimer didn’t make in the second half of the year when it was clear the Seahawks were, for the first time in the Carroll era, a pass-first team. This season was about the adjustment Carroll made late in the year to ensure the offense was playing more like its 2012 version.


“We struggled down the (stretch) to overcome the teams we were playing,” Carroll said of his offense on KIRO-AM on Monday morning. “We didn’t match up with the performances we would like to have continued with. But, as we came on defensively, I adjusted us some to make sure we were really taking care of the football, knowing that we could win some games by the way we were playing defense, which you’ve seen us do that for 10 years. That’s just the way we had to adapt.”

To me this is the real point. Pete decided that it was time to protect the football and we went conservative.

“I would say I always need more help,” Carroll said. “I need to be coached up just like everybody else. Over the years I have lost a couple guys. Tater would tell me anything. He was awesome. I demanded it of him because he knew the truth and he needed to speak to me. I have lost a few guys like that. It is something I’m looking at.”


This last sentiment might be more important than dissecting the reasons why Carroll should or should not have fired Schottenheimer, because it may not matter who the offensive coordinator is in a system run by Carroll and quarterbacked by Wilson. The philosophy is in place and there’s no deviating from that, at least not for long, anyway. Whoever replaces Schottenheimer will have to navigate the task of building a hard-nosed run game while constructing an incredibly efficient passing game on limited attempts in neutral situations. This is hard, but not impossible, as Schottenheimer and former OC Darrell Bevell have both demonstrated. They each called the plays for the most successful offenses in franchise history (Bevell in 2015, Schottenheimer in 2020).

Whoever Carroll chooses may be walking into a situation where the only person who can hold the boss accountable is a guy with the same last name. Carroll mentioned veteran leaders such as Wilson, linebacker Bobby Wagner and left tackle Duane Brown as people he also seeks advice from to be “coached up,” but anyone falling in labor can only be so influential in management’s decision making.


This is not to say Carroll being in complete control of the organization is good or bad. After all, he’s the best and most successful coach in franchise history. He must be doing something right. We just have to acknowledge the dynamic associated with taking a coordinator position with this franchise; it’s as relevant as the name of the man holding the play sheet on gameday.


Wilson may have his shortcomings as a passer, but make no mistake, this roster is best suited to be a pass-first unit. DK Metcalf is a star. Lockett is one of the most underrated receivers in the league. With Chris Carson and Carlos Hyde set to be free agents, there are no bruiser backs under contract for next season. Brown and Brandon Shell might be the best offensive tackle pairing Wilson has ever had. In an era when the most efficient passing teams are the ones left standing at the end of the year, optimizing that element of the offense gives the Seahawks the best chance of getting back to the Super Bowl.

He goes on to basically say what I think many of us are saying, although not all.

For me, it isn't about passing more. It's about being more aggressive with our passing games. I know a lot of people think deep balls are a sign of aggression but I disagree. Deep balls have 4 possible outcomes. A catch for a big play, a PI for a big play, an incompletion, or an interception. 2 positive outcomes, one neutral outcome, and one negative outcome that is not much different than a punt. And when you throw to someone like DK Metcalf, the interception option becomes even less likely because of his sheer size.

Aggressive passing is when you are willing to get your QB moving and throw the ball 15-20 yards downfield. It's throwing zone buster passes that require accuracy. We simply don't do that except on broken plays.