2020 Draft & FA

[SteelersPride]

For future FA discussions in here... Here's a list of top FAs (unranked) for the positions that we have deemed as a need in the upcoming offseason...

OLB
Jadeveon Clowney... Not going anywhere given the trade haul Seattle gave up. But for now, he's a pending UFA.
Shaq Barrett... What a year this guy is having. Young & pricey.
Bud Dupree... For all the grief we give him, he's still having a decent year. I don't want the Steelers to overpay.
Dante Fowler Jr... To me he's a Bud Dupree type player. Output doesn't necessarily match the athleticism.
Jamie Collins... Consistent guy, inside or out. Aged (30) & could come at a decent price. Scheme dependent?
Robert Quinn... 4-3 DE, but could easily transition to OLB.
Whitney Mercilus... Not really a premier FA, but a dependable guy. Will turn 31 offseason.
Vic Beasley... Another 4-3 DE. Risky, but still young & talented.

TE
Eric Ebron... Easily the most talented & well-rounded in the FA group. But still carries some risk.
Austin Hooper... Good pass-catcher but not sure about his blocking skills?
Jack Doyle... Indy will likely keep him over Ebron.
Hunter Henry... Young & injury prone. Risky but very talented.
Nick Vannett... Trades for players in a contract year rarely result in them not getting a new contract.
Vance McDonald... 2020 & 2021 are club options under his current contract. Still an injury prone player.

IOL
Brandon Scherff... Young & pricey. Best in run game.
Joe Thuney... Another young & pricey option. Best in pass-pro.
BJ Finney... UFA that the steelers no longer can hold the rights to with EFA/RFA tenders.
Clint Boling... Savvy vet, but aged 30.
Marshal Yanda... UC through 2020, but expected to be cut or traded. In decline, but serviceable at 34 years old.

WR
Amari Cooper... DAL has to pay either Dak or Amari. Not sure if they can do both.
AJ Green... 32 next year. But could easily be a renaissance type player.
Robby Anderson... Young & inconsistent. But in the right offense could do damage.
Nelson Agholor... See Robby Anderson.
Emmanuel Sanders... One foot out the door at 32, but a contender could use him. SF will likely try to retain him.
Larry Fitzgerald... Seems he'd rather retire than sign elsewhere.
DeVante Parker... 2020 is a club option for Miami.
Devin Funchess... Meh.
Randall Cobb... Slot.
Breshad Perriman... Meh.
Phillip Dorsett... Small but dynamic.
Josh Gordon... Not sure if Seattle will want to retain him if he doesn't prove himself.
Chester Rogers... Young & athletic.
Dez Bryant... Still tryin to make a comeback.

RB
Melvin Gordon.. Big fish in this FA group.
Derrick Henry... Tantalizing prospect, but probably overpriced in this upcoming market. Not a pass-catcher.
Kareem Hunt... Still has immense potential. Might leave CLE for a starting gig if he eats into Chubb's role.
Kenyan Drake... AZ should retain, but pending UFA.
Carlos Hyde/Peyton Barber/Isaiah Crowell... 1-cut bruiser types.
Lamar Miller... 30 year old coming off knee injury. Scary.
LeSean McCoy... Slowed by age & injuries. 31 in July.
Jordan Howard... Inconsistent, but proven to play very well.
Chris Thompson... Pass catching specialist, but has proven worthy between the tackles.
CJ Prosise... Haven't seen him in a lead role much, but seems like the hype has been consistent.
Gus Edwards... Doubt BAL lets him walk.

IDL
Marcell Dareus... 2020 club option. Would be the big fish if they let him explore FA.
Chris Jones... DE that plays inside & out. The current big fish of the group.
Michael Brockers... Very versatile & young. Should easily find a contract.
Leonard Williams... Traded in contract year. He's not going anywhere.
Javon Hargrave... Young & pricey. But the IDL market is rich with talent. The Steelers could get lucky & resign.
Jarran Reed... Another youthful talent.
Jordan Phillips... Another youthful talent.
Danny Shelton... Stout interior guy.
Gerald McCoy/Ndamukong Suh... Aged but serviceable.
Timmy Jernigan... Athletic guy with power.
Josh Mauro... Long time no see former UDFA. Still a stout interior guy, but plays well outside at DE too.

At some point soon after week 13...they will give up on the '19 season if they lose to CIN. Then they will have the builtin excuse of giving him an extended look. If he's stinking it up at home vs CIN, I'm not sure he would finish that game...I think Hodges would come in.

I'm conceding that Mason is probably not it, but with only 7 starts under his belt, we have to at least recognize that's a fairly quick trigger.

I don't think it's the coaches holding him back as much as I think Rudolph was holding himself back....this next game will be a good sign. If he crawls back into a shell, and resorts back to all passes <10yds, we know he's scared and it's self inflicted.

Coming back to this. I agree its a quick trigger. IF IF there was something there? But what has been? again darnold, danny dimes, kyle allen, brandon allen, minshew, i can do this all day. QB's are expected to come in and do something. Hes a guy that had a 1st round grade, sat and learned for a year behind a hall of fame qb, and now has 7 starts as well, hes still completely lost, i dont see the excuse. 6th round minshew with a not so great jax squad played extremely well. Brandon allen has come in and done admirably. Kyle allen has imploded the past two, but he was doing great. Qb's have to come in young, inexperienced and play all the time now, thats the norm. I might have missed him coming out of his shell? he really had some moments two games a go, but not much?

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

At some point soon after week 13...they will give up on the '19 season if they lose to CIN. Then they will have the builtin excuse of giving him an extended look. If he's stinking it up at home vs CIN, I'm not sure he would finish that game...I think Hodges would come in.

I'm conceding that Mason is probably not it, but with only 7 starts under his belt, we have to at least recognize that's a fairly quick trigger.

I don't think it's the coaches holding him back as much as I think Rudolph was holding himself back....this next game will be a good sign. If he crawls back into a shell, and resorts back to all passes <10yds, we know he's scared and it's self inflicted.

Coming back to this. I agree its a quick trigger. IF IF there was something there? But what has been? again darnold, danny dimes, kyle allen, brandon allen, minshew, i can do this all day. QB's are expected to come in and do something. Hes a guy that had a 1st round grade, sat and learned for a year behind a hall of fame qb, and now has 7 starts as well, hes still completely lost, i dont see the excuse. 6th round minshew with a not so great jax squad played extremely well. Brandon allen has come in and done admirably. Kyle allen has imploded the past two, but he was doing great. Qb's have to come in young, inexperienced and play all the time now, thats the norm. I might have missed him coming out of his shell? he really had some moments two games a go, but not much?

Definitely easy to say its a "quick trigger" on dismissing Mason. I'm not saying he wouldn't pan out into a formidable backup, but to say that he has the tangibles to be the future starter (ie has that IT factor) takes a gigantic leap of faith based on very little that we have seen from those 7 starts under center.

As SP said, he's lost. Most of issues are deriving from above the neck issues that aren't necessarily coachable unless these guys have a degree in psychology. They tried the spoonfeeding route to get his confidence up, but he is still returning to his shell in EVERY game. Win or lose he shows very erratic behavior in the pocket and never shows any rhythm or poise to instill confidence. These backups in the NFL that have performed better have shown better promise by a country mile, and most are all still considered BACKUPS.

That said, what we saw from Mason in the preseason was the polar opposite of what we are seeing now. He showed great poise, rhythm & route anticipation. I have no idea why suddenly he has lost all that after 2-3 weeks into the season, but I tend to believe its above the neck. Maybe he didn't get enough playing time to get rattled during the preseason to show us what we see now?

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Coming back to this. I agree its a quick trigger. IF IF there was something there? But what has been? again darnold, danny dimes, kyle allen, brandon allen, minshew, i can do this all day. QB's are expected to come in and do something. Hes a guy that had a 1st round grade, sat and learned for a year behind a hall of fame qb, and now has 7 starts as well, hes still completely lost, i dont see the excuse. 6th round minshew with a not so great jax squad played extremely well. Brandon allen has come in and done admirably. Kyle allen has imploded the past two, but he was doing great. Qb's have to come in young, inexperienced and play all the time now, thats the norm. I might have missed him coming out of his shell? he really had some moments two games a go, but not much?

I have no push back for Mason's play...and I understand other QBs have come in and maybe looked better at times.
Kyle Allen being one of them, but yesterday vs ATL at home he looked worse than Mason did on TNF...but he's had other games where he looked like the replacement for Cam.

 

[SteelersPride]

I have no push back for Mason's play...and I understand other QBs have come in and maybe looked better at times.
Kyle Allen being one of them, but yesterday vs ATL at home he looked worse than Mason did on TNF...but he's had other games where he looked like the replacement for Cam.

im by no means trying to argue. But that seems to be the narrative from media, coaches, etc. But this isnt 1990. Thats not how it works anymore. It may here, he may get all season to see if he comes around......but around the league......

 

[SteelersPride]

Definitely easy to say its a "quick trigger" on dismissing Mason. I'm not saying he wouldn't pan out into a formidable backup, but to say that he has the tangibles to be the future starter (ie has that IT factor) takes a gigantic leap of faith based on very little that we have seen from those 7 starts under center.

As SP said, he's lost. Most of issues are deriving from above the neck issues that aren't necessarily coachable unless these guys have a degree in psychology. They tried the spoonfeeding route to get his confidence up, but he is still returning to his shell in EVERY game. Win or lose he shows very erratic behavior in the pocket and never shows any rhythm or poise to instill confidence. These backups in the NFL that have performed better have shown better promise by a country mile, and most are all still considered BACKUPS.

That said, what we saw from Mason in the preseason was the polar opposite of what we are seeing now. He showed great poise, rhythm & route anticipation. I have no idea why suddenly he has lost all that after 2-3 weeks into the season, but I tend to believe its above the neck. Maybe he didn't get enough playing time to get rattled during the preseason to show us what we see now?

mason also was playing against lesser in pre-season, could be it

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Definitely easy to say its a "quick trigger" on dismissing Mason. I'm not saying he wouldn't pan out into a formidable backup, but to say that he has the tangibles to be the future starter (ie has that IT factor) takes a gigantic leap of faith based on very little that we have seen from those 7 starts under center.

As SP said, he's lost. Most of issues are deriving from above the neck issues that aren't necessarily coachable unless these guys have a degree in psychology. They tried the spoonfeeding route to get his confidence up, but he is still returning to his shell in EVERY game. Win or lose he shows very erratic behavior in the pocket and never shows any rhythm or poise to instill confidence. These backups in the NFL that have performed better have shown better promise by a country mile, and most are all still considered BACKUPS.

That said, what we saw from Mason in the preseason was the polar opposite of what we are seeing now. He showed great poise, rhythm & route anticipation. I have no idea why suddenly he has lost all that after 2-3 weeks into the season, but I tend to believe its above the neck. Maybe he didn't get enough playing time to get rattled during the preseason to show us what we see now?

I think generally speaking the NFL (and fans) have sped up the developmental clock for QBs. But, for every Mahomes, there will be 10 or 15 Mitch Trubiskys drafted.

Maybe PIT just got their guy in the 3rd round.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

im by no means trying to argue. But that seems to be the narrative from media, coaches, etc. But this isnt 1990. Thats not how it works anymore. It may here, he may get all season to see if he comes around......but around the league......

I've been of the opinion that Mason would not get all season if his play didn't improve...as of today, the Steelers are in the 8th seed position (in other words, still in it) he's going to have to show more than he did the other night to keep the job all season.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I think generally speaking the NFL (and fans) have sped up the developmental clock for QBs. But, for every Mahomes, there will be 10 or 15 Mitch Trubiskys drafted.

Maybe PIT just got their guy in the 3rd round.

Yep. All we can hope is that the Steelers realize this sooner than later before the season is lost. You may be right that they still give him the built-in excuse of giving him an extended look. But we, the fans, would obviously rather see them try to make a change to improve (give Hodges, Lynch or Kaep a shot) before watching the paint dry on the football field with Mason.

 

[SteelersPride]

I think generally speaking the NFL (and fans) have sped up the developmental clock for QBs. But, for every Mahomes, there will be 10 or 15 Mitch Trubiskys drafted.

Maybe PIT just got their guy in the 3rd round.

well yeah i agree on mahomes but lets just look back over the past few years.
Guys that have come in and performed, off the top of my head, and i dont mean MVP franchise QB, but at least serviceable.

josh allen
darnold
lamar jackson
baker(although he melted down early this year, looks to righted the ship)
brissett
watson
minshew
mahomes
carr
brandon allen
kyle allen
dak
wentz
danny dimes
nick mullens
cj beatheard
kyler

and i know some are high draft picks, but just guys that were young, and came in and played ok, not totally lost

im sure there many who sucked

 

[ATL96Steeler]

well yeah i agree on mahomes but lets just look back over the past few years.
Guys that have come in and performed, off the top of my head, and i dont mean MVP franchise QB, but at least serviceable.

josh allen
darnold
lamar jackson
baker(although he melted down early this year, looks to righted the ship)
brissett
watson
minshew
mahomes
carr
brandon allen
kyle allen
dak
wentz
danny dimes
nick mullens
cj beatheard
kyler

and i know some are high draft picks, but just guys that were young, and came in and played ok, not totally lost

im sure there many who sucked

I'm not sure what your list really means...are you suggesting all of these guys have looked better than Mason at some point (i.e. "not totally lost")?

I haven't followed all of these QBs, but for the sake of the topic, let's say they all have had moments where they look like they know what they're doing. You're telling me that Mason hasn't shown ANY moments yet?

 

[SteelersPride]

I'm not sure what your list really means...are you suggesting all of these guys have looked better than Mason at some point (i.e. "not totally lost")?

I haven't followed all of these QBs, but for the sake of the topic, let's say they all have had moments where they look like they know what they're doing. You're telling me that Mason hasn't shown ANY moments yet?

he hasnt shown much at all.

those are all guys that have come in and performed well yes. that are young, and have had mostly less experience initially.

THe absolute best mason looked was when he came in to relieve ben, when he got injured. its been scary since then

 

[ATL96Steeler]

he hasnt shown much at all.

those are all guys that have come in and performed well yes. that are young, and have had mostly less experience initially.

THe absolute best mason looked was when he came in to relieve ben, when he got injured. its been scary since then

Well...to be honest...I have not looked at Mason's performances in comparison to the list or to any other young starting QBs.

I get what you're saying (I think)...most, or all of the guys on this list have performed better than Rudolph. As a result, there's a good chance this guy is a dud, and not worthy of retaining as Ben's backup.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Well...to be honest...I have not looked at Mason's performances in comparison to the list or to any other young starting QBs.

I get what you're saying (I think)...most, or all of the guys on this list have performed better than Rudolph. As a result, there's a good chance this guy is a dud, and not worthy of retaining as Ben's backup.

The most damning fact is that guys like Minshew, B Allen, K Allen, & Mullens were all 6th Rders or UDFA. Hell even Beathard & Brissett were 3rd Rders that were never viewed as a 1st Rd talent like Mason is being viewed as.

In short... The Steelers suck at evaluating QB prospects unless one falls into their laps ala Ben Roethlisberger. I mean, aside from Ben, when was the last time they DRAFTED a QB that made you feel comfortable after seeing them play? Pretty sure you'd have to go back as far as Kordell Stewart.

Rudolph, Dobbs, L Jones, Dixon, Jacobs, St. Pierre, Martin, Fischer...

 

[ATL96Steeler]

The most damning fact is that guys like Minshew, B Allen, K Allen, & Mullens were all 6th Rders or UDFA. Hell even Beathard & Brissett were 3rd Rders that were never viewed as a 1st Rd talent like Mason is being viewed as.

In short... The Steelers suck at evaluating QB prospects unless one falls into their laps ala Ben Roethlisberger. I mean, aside from Ben, when was the last time they DRAFTED a QB that made you feel comfortable after seeing them play? Pretty sure you'd have to go back as far as Kordell Stewart.

Rudolph, Dobbs, L Jones, Dixon, Jacobs, St. Pierre, Martin, Fischer...

Fair point.

1st round...tbh, the only team really saying he had a 1st round grade was the team that took him in the 3rd round, after passing (along with all the other 31 teams) on him twice.

I guess where I am...I know where Mason's game is at the present, but after 7 games starting, I'm not ready to say he's a bust...but I'm not saying he's not one either.

I don't think Fichtner is the same fit with Ben as he is with Rudolph. Essentially you have a young, inexperienced, QB with an inexperienced playcaller.

 

[SteelersPride]

Well...to be honest...I have not looked at Mason's performances in comparison to the list or to any other young starting QBs.

I get what you're saying (I think)...most, or all of the guys on this list have performed better than Rudolph. As a result, there's a good chance this guy is a dud, and not worthy of retaining as Ben's backup.

Yeah basically what I’m saying. Also I guess what I’m trying to say is these guys weren’t given the “time” excuse, and still performed.

The most damning fact is that guys like Minshew, B Allen, K Allen, & Mullens were all 6th Rders or UDFA. Hell even Beathard & Brissett were 3rd Rders that were never viewed as a 1st Rd talent like Mason is being viewed as.

In short... The Steelers suck at evaluating QB prospects unless one falls into their laps ala Ben Roethlisberger. I mean, aside from Ben, when was the last time they DRAFTED a QB that made you feel comfortable after seeing them play? Pretty sure you'd have to go back as far as Kordell Stewart.

Rudolph, Dobbs, L Jones, Dixon, Jacobs, St. Pierre, Martin, Fischer...

Jesus that’s actually damming. And really aside from Ben, who else? The record extends for a long time. Even Stewart iirc wasn’t he thought of as a offensive weapon coming out, not a qb. Hence the short lived qb stints

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Yeah basically what I’m saying. Also I guess what I’m trying to say is these guys weren’t given the “time” excuse, and still performed.

Jesus that’s actually damming. And really aside from Ben, who else? The record extends for a long time. Even Stewart iirc wasn’t he thought of as a offensive weapon coming out, not a qb. Hence the short lived qb stints

If all those players you mentioned got 7 games to prove themselves and they all proved themselves well, maybe they should just cut bait with Rudolph now.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

If all those players you mentioned got 7 games to prove themselves and they all proved themselves well, maybe they should just cut bait with Rudolph now.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

If all those players you mentioned got 7 games to prove themselves and they all proved themselves well, maybe they should just cut bait with Rudolph now.

Dobbs (drafted 2017) - 1 season, played in 5 games, 0 starts
Jones (drafted 2013) - 5 seasons, played in 19 games, 5 starts
Dixon (drafted 2008) - 3 seasons, played in 4 games, 3 starts
Jacobs (drafted 2006) - Went to PS, cut, signed to 2 other PS's before going to Europe & Arena leagues.
St Pierre (drafted 2003) - 1 season in PIT, 1 game played (1 att, 0 compl), 0 starts.
Martin (drafted 2000) - 1 season in PIT, 1 game played with 0 attempted passed & 1 rush for 8yds.
Fischer (drafted 1996) - Never made the roster.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Also fair to point out that the top end draft investments into the QB position have been very low.

Steelers QBs drafted by Round (since 1980):

Round 1: 2 (Malone, Roethlisberger)
Round 2: 1 (Stewart)
Round 3: 3 (Brister, O'Donnell, Rudolph)
Round 4: 2 (Jones, Dobbs)
Round 5: 4 (Martin, St Pierre, Jacobs, Dixon)
Round 6: 2 (Miller, Fischer)
Round 7-later: 4 (Trocano, Campbell, Benton, Van Pelt,)

 

[thedddd]

Dobbs (drafted 2017) - 1 season, played in 5 games, 0 starts
Jones (drafted 2013) - 5 seasons, played in 19 games, 5 starts
Dixon (drafted 2008) - 3 seasons, played in 4 games, 3 starts
Jacobs (drafted 2006) - Went to PS, cut, signed to 2 other PS's before going to Europe & Arena leagues.
St Pierre (drafted 2003) - 1 season in PIT, 1 game played (1 att, 0 compl), 0 starts.
Martin (drafted 2000) - 1 season in PIT, 1 game played with 0 attempted passed & 1 rush for 8yds.
Fischer (drafted 1996) - Never made the roster.

Talk about a forgettable bunch and honestly I DID forget about Omar Jacobs.