2019-20 Quest for the cup(The Carter Hart era begins)

[lasgop8]

ah.... I get it... he'll be 2.7 times better in the 2020/21 season. If there is one...

 

[purdue81]

re-posting since i did it wrong the first time
Who leads the 2019-20 Flyers in...

Goals:Coots
Assists:Giroux
Points:Giroux
+/-:Hayes
PP Points:Giroux
SH Points:
Blocks:Braun
Hits:Hagg
PIMs:Hagg
FO%:Giroux
Shots:Voracek
Points among dmen:Niskanen
Points among players 24 years old or younger (as of Game 1):Patrick
Total TOI:Provorov

 

[awaz]

Morin?

If he's a slow, lumbering oaf that's only good at hitting people, I don't see him ever playing a regular role and I personally have no use for him.

I thought about picking him though, because from all reports he can move decently for a big man and his first pass isn't terrible. And he'd certainly get more PIMs if he played often enough. But I don't think he plays many NHL games this year.

 

[lasgop8]

If he's a slow, lumbering oaf that's only good at hitting people, I don't see him ever playing a regular role and I personally have no use for him.

I thought about picking him though, because from all reports he can move decently for a big man and his first pass isn't terrible. And he'd certainly get more PIMs if he played often enough. But I don't think he plays many NHL games this year.

I just cant see what good it will be for his development to be sitting in the press box every game same for Hagg.

 

[awaz]

I just cant see what good it will be for his development to be sitting in the press box every game same for Hagg.

Hagg, I think, is what he is. He'll be 25 this season, he's essentially entering his prime and he hasn't shown flashes of being much more than a moderately passable shutdown dman. Morin will be 25 as well, I'm willing to leave the door cracked that he could develop more still because he's missed 2 seasons due to injury. But at the same time, he's got to overcome those injuries as well and has a longer road to travel to get to the point where he's more than a 6/7 type player.

So Morin I try to sneak through waivers during the preseason, get him some quality ice time. I'm fine with Hagg in the press box.

 

[lasgop8]

Hagg, I think, is what he is. He'll be 25 this season, he's essentially entering his prime and he hasn't shown flashes of being much more than a moderately passable shutdown dman. Morin will be 25 as well, I'm willing to leave the door cracked that he could develop more still because he's missed 2 seasons due to injury. But at the same time, he's got to overcome those injuries as well and has a longer road to travel to get to the point where he's more than a 6/7 type player.

So Morin I try to sneak through waivers during the preseason, get him some quality ice time. I'm fine with Hagg in the press box.

I disagree on Hagg. He has only 2 seasons under his belt and doubled his point total in season 2 while only being a minus 3. He is a player that is near the lead in hits and is young enough to still get better. Braun is 32 had less points and was minus 14 on a better team and no where near the amount of hits.

Sitting Morin and Hagg is stunting the growth and maturity.

 

[EVille3]

I disagree on Hagg. He has only 2 seasons under his belt and doubled his point total in season 2 while only being a minus 3. He is a player that is near the lead in hits and is young enough to still get better. Braun is 32 had less points and was minus 14 on a better team and no where near the amount of hits.

Sitting Morin and Hagg is stunting the growth and maturity.

On board with this. I don't where the animosity for Hagg is coming from. I think he will continue to develop and minimally be a solid contributor on the bottom pair with upside to top 4.

 

[raptorlife4]

I'm not sure why everybody is low on Hagg.
I think he led the NHL in hits last year didn't he

 

[awaz]

I just want more from a dman than what Hagg provides. He can defend fairly well, but that's really all I've seen from him. His passing is suspect. He brings next to nothing in the offensive zone. And aside from maybe a game or two at the start of last season, he hasn't shown anything more than that.

I'm not saying I would be upset if he played regularly. I just don't see much development for him. It's not like he's inconsistent, or goes a run of being a better passer or an offensive threat. He just, is what he is, IMO. And I think the Flyers can do better than him. Right now, I think he's the 7th best dman in the organization. And I expect York to pass him in relatively short order as well. Possibly Morin as well, though I'm obviously not super high on Morin.

 

[purdue81]

I just want more from a dman than what Hagg provides. He can defend fairly well, but that's really all I've seen from him. His passing is suspect. He brings next to nothing in the offensive zone. And aside from maybe a game or two at the start of last season, he hasn't shown anything more than that.

I'm not saying I would be upset if he played regularly. I just don't see much development for him. It's not like he's inconsistent, or goes a run of being a better passer or an offensive threat. He just, is what he is, IMO. And I think the Flyers can do better than him. Right now, I think he's the 7th best dman in the organization. And I expect York to pass him in relatively short order as well. Possibly Morin as well, though I'm obviously not super high on Morin.

Although I do agree the era of a team loaded with goons is long gone, I also believe a team needs a guy that is known to bring the big hit as a deterrence to other teams taking shots at your skill players. Hagg likes to hit, and the competition needs to know that if you try to take out a Giroux, your guy's head will be hunted.

 

[awaz]

Although I do agree the era of a team loaded with goons is long gone, I also believe a team needs a guy that is known to bring the big hit as a deterrence to other teams taking shots at your skill players. Hagg likes to hit, and the competition needs to know that if you try to take out a Giroux, your guy's head will be hunted.

I agree with that, to an extent. But is Hagg really that guy? He hits a lot, yes, but I can't think of a single time where he really laid someone out. And he has 0 fights in his career.

I hope that Morin passes Hagg on the depth chart at some point. Because even though I'm not optimistic he gets to 'every day NHL caliber' status, I do think Morin will bring that. He's a mean SOB. They would essentially fill the same role, but Morin brings more fear-level physicality.

 

[lasgop8]

I just want more from a dman than what Hagg provides. He can defend fairly well, but that's really all I've seen from him. His passing is suspect. He brings next to nothing in the offensive zone. And aside from maybe a game or two at the start of last season, he hasn't shown anything more than that.

I'm not saying I would be upset if he played regularly. I just don't see much development for him. It's not like he's inconsistent, or goes a run of being a better passer or an offensive threat. He just, is what he is, IMO. And I think the Flyers can do better than him. Right now, I think he's the 7th best dman in the organization. And I expect York to pass him in relatively short order as well. Possibly Morin as well, though I'm obviously not super high on Morin.

Your whole first paragraph is a perfect description of a 32 year old Braun

2nd paragraph i can agree with but if York passes him and goes into the line up in two years why do we keep Hagg and Morin to rot away. Why dont we get something for either one of them while they are young.

 

[lasgop8]

Although I do agree the era of a team loaded with goons is long gone, I also believe a team needs a guy that is known to bring the big hit as a deterrence to other teams taking shots at your skill players. Hagg likes to hit, and the competition needs to know that if you try to take out a Giroux, your guy's head will be hunted.

I think Morin would be better suited for this role but at least Hagg brings the thunder and gets around 5 to 6 hits per game. Hagg brings more than a 32 year old dman who hits less and scores less.

 

[lasgop8]

I agree with that, to an extent. But is Hagg really that guy? He hits a lot, yes, but I can't think of a single time where he really laid someone out. And he has 0 fights in his career.

I hope that Morin passes Hagg on the depth chart at some point. Because even though I'm not optimistic he gets to 'every day NHL caliber' status, I do think Morin will bring that. He's a mean SOB. They would essentially fill the same role, but Morin brings more fear-level physicality.

Hagg brings things that Morin doesn't and Morin brings things that Hagg doesn't but IMO they both bring more things to the table than a 32 year old Braun

 

[JBM73]

Hagg had a relatively strong October/November but was a complete tire fire from December on and never really showed signs of recovery.

Assuming Provorov signs, I'm thinking Morin gets training camp and the preseason to show he belongs as a 6/7, in which case Hagg will likely be moved. If he craps the bed then Hagg fills the 6/7 role. The 6/7 role is someone I see playing 30-40 games or so barring significant injuries, spelling Myers a bit to ease his transition and giving other guys some rest/recuperation as needed.

An advantage Hagg has over Morin is that he can play both LD and RD, whereas Morin strictly plays LD I believe.

 

[awaz]

Your whole first paragraph is a perfect description of a 32 year old Braun

2nd paragraph i can agree with but if York passes him and goes into the line up in two years why do we keep Hagg and Morin to rot away. Why dont we get something for either one of them while they are young.

Honestly, I'm not going to argue much Braun/Hagg. Braun has the advantage of being RH. That's really it, IMO. "Hockey men" seem to think having LH/RH d-pairs is a significant advantage. Even over guys like Hagg who have seemingly can play both.

I don't love the Braun trade, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. Braun staked down legitimate top 4 minutes and was the defensive stalwart for a legitimately good team. Hagg was more of a 4/5 guy on a team that wasn't very good. Plus we've talked about needing real experience, playoff experience, particularly on the back end. Braun brings that (in addition to Niskanen).

And I'm definitely open to moving one of Morin/Hagg. I don't think Morin has much value, having 8 NHL games and basically 2 years off from hockey. But Hagg I do think has some value. I think they could get a mid-round pick for him.

 

[awaz]

Hagg had a relatively strong October/November but was a complete tire fire from December on and never really showed signs of recovery.

Assuming Provorov signs, I'm thinking Morin gets training camp and the preseason to show he belongs as a 6/7, in which case Hagg will likely be moved. If he craps the bed then Hagg fills the 6/7 role. The 6/7 role is someone I see playing 30-40 games or so barring significant injuries, spelling Myers a bit to ease his transition and giving other guys some rest/recuperation as needed.

An advantage Hagg has over Morin is that he can play both LD and RD, whereas Morin strictly plays LD I believe.

I agree with this. Especially the bold.

 

[lasgop8]

Hagg had a relatively strong October/November but was a complete tire fire from December on and never really showed signs of recovery.

Assuming Provorov signs, I'm thinking Morin gets training camp and the preseason to show he belongs as a 6/7, in which case Hagg will likely be moved. If he craps the bed then Hagg fills the 6/7 role. The 6/7 role is someone I see playing 30-40 games or so barring significant injuries, spelling Myers a bit to ease his transition and giving other guys some rest/recuperation as needed.

An advantage Hagg has over Morin is that he can play both LD and RD, whereas Morin strictly plays LD I believe.

If i had to choose between Morin and Hagg id like Morin on the team for his size and his mean streak. The problem I have is would rather not have to choose between two young players in order to accommodate a 32 year old player in decline.

 

[purdue81]

If i had to choose between Morin and Hagg id like Morin on the team for his size and his mean streak. The problem I have is would rather not have to choose between two young players in order to accommodate a 32 year old player in decline.

IMHO Flyers have the next 2 seasons to make a serious run with Giroux and Voracek. Niskanen and Braun bring experience on D. Year 3 begins the post Giroux / Voracek era. Braun and Niskanen get dumped.... all the prospects better pan out by then.

 

[lasgop8]

IMHO Flyers have the next 2 seasons to make a serious run with Giroux and Voracek. Niskanen and Braun bring experience on D. Year 3 begins the post Giroux / Voracek era. Braun and Niskanen get dumped.... all the prospects better pan out by then.

I would love to make a deep run but right now there are several teams better than us and that's just on our side of the bracket and i feel with a player like Braun impeding the process of our young defense such as Morin and Hagg its just wasting development time as well as Gee and Jake's prime..