Would Broncos trade Miller ?

[cdumler7]

So then you have used that brilliant google it mind of yours to determine that these figures are 99% correct but you admit you haven't done the research to validate that percentage....
You continue to mistake non interest for ignorance, and let your unqualified over confident delusional mind determine percentages and evaluations you cannot quantify...

Looks like another..
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Agents release most of the contract and almost all of the money information with every contract. What we don't know sometimes are the escalators and when they actually count. The signing bonus, guaranteed money, overall money, work out bonus, practice bonus, and so on are released every time. The reason I say 99% of the contracts is there are sometimes disciplinary things thrown in and such that they usually keep locked up but I doubt your boy Flacco had any of that language in his contract.

And actually I have done the research beyond just these websites. There are plenty of other places those are just the most common ones that are well respected. For having no interest in this whole thing you sure seem to want to talk about it.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Off the top of my head, Emanuel Sanders. TJ Ward, Aqib Talib, and Ware are all up in the next couple years but I would guess we move on from at least 2 of those guys. Roby will need a new contract with starter money if they pass on Talib that is 2018 or 2019. CAp wise, we are not bad the next couple of years.

Good cap wise if you don't sign these guys? That could be a lot of cheddar adding to the cap? Sure you can move some into later years? I wonder if this VM negotiation will affect others down the road and how they negotiate? If you move away from a couple of those players you still need to replace their talent.

 

[cdumler7]

Adam Schefter reports the majority of the guarenteed $ is in the first two years. What's the majority? But, it makes sense as that's what appeared to be the hold up. Like many of us thought, Elway was going to give that majority of $ up early. Miller signs this deal now. Good for both sides. Cd gives rhe reader digest version of what this does to Denver next year, cap wise? I could google it but don't want to get those fiesty Raven fans started. If I recall Denver was looking good going into tge next two years? Any other big contracts needed to get done in 17 or 18?

Need a kicker? Looks like you can get a pretty good one next year based on earlier reports today. One kicker seems to be a little upset he's getting low balled. Maybe some FOs aren't that smart. Teams don't need kickers. Well, until the need them right?

Well need to see the details of the contract to really understand our cap situation next year and the year after. Usually the way the Broncos design contracts is that 2nd year of the contract is the big cap hit. They like to front load contracts so they don't have to worry about dead money on the last couple of years of the deal. So good chance year #2 is about a $24-25 million cap hit with the rest under $20 million.

Contracts coming up really the big name still left for next year is Emmanuel Sanders. I hate to say it but I think he could be gone as I can't see the Broncos wanting to commit top WR money to 2 different WR's. What helps the Broncos is the QB position should be really cheap for the next 3-5 years but I just think they will try and find a good #2 for a lot cheaper at the WR position. Beyond Emmanuel the only other starter that they maybe lose is Sly Williams but he is not a top tier player at his position. Oh and good chance Ware is another but with his age and need for limited snaps I doubt they have plans to sign him once again unless they get him pretty cheap.

The year after that Roby and Ward would be the big names hitting FA. So definitely some other moves the Broncos will have to make but the nice thing for them is they have contracts they can get out of pretty easily like Talib's as he is getting up in age and well becoming a bit of a headache. About this time they can start getting out of DT's contract if need be. Plus they are top-10 or so in cap space over the next 3 years before this Von Miller signing. Really for the Broncos it comes down to if the QB position works out well with our 1st round pick Lynch then cap wise the Broncos should be pretty well set. If he doesn't work out though and we have to go get an expensive FA QB then yeah things get real tight real quick.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Well need to see the details of the contract to really understand our cap situation next year and the year after. Usually the way the Broncos design contracts is that 2nd year of the contract is the big cap hit. They like to front load contracts so they don't have to worry about dead money on the last couple of years of the deal. So good chance year #2 is about a $24-25 million cap hit with the rest under $20 million.

Contracts coming up really the big name still left for next year is Emmanuel Sanders. I hate to say it but I think he could be gone as I can't see the Broncos wanting to commit top WR money to 2 different WR's. What helps the Broncos is the QB position should be really cheap for the next 3-5 years but I just think they will try and find a good #2 for a lot cheaper at the WR position. Beyond Emmanuel the only other starter that they maybe lose is Sly Williams but he is not a top tier player at his position. Oh and good chance Ware is another but with his age and need for limited snaps I doubt they have plans to sign him once again unless they get him pretty cheap.

The year after that Roby and Ward would be the big names hitting FA. So definitely some other moves the Broncos will have to make but the nice thing for them is they have contracts they can get out of pretty easily like Talib's as he is getting up in age and well becoming a bit of a headache. About this time they can start getting out of DT's contract if need be. Plus they are top-10 or so in cap space over the next 3 years before this Von Miller signing. Really for the Broncos it comes down to if the QB position works out well with our 1st round pick Lynch then cap wise the Broncos should be pretty well set. If he doesn't work out though and we have to go get an expensive FA QB then yeah things get real tight real quick.

Good point on the QB situation. As long as they can stay competitive.

 

[cdumler7]

Good point on the QB situation. As long as they can stay competitive.

It's the way of the NFL. IF you have the QB position figured out you have a chance every single year. I love the potential that Lynch shows but have to wait and see if it develops. If so then the Broncos can be very aggressive FA wise or re-signing players wise over the next 5-years. To me Sanders is re-signed this next off season if the Broncos trust that Lynch is their guy. If they are still not sure and need to see more then Sanders is gone. He is a fan favorite and one of my favorites so hate to see him possibly leave but it is how the NFL works in sometimes you do have to walk away from a talented player.

 

[Money]

That's a whole lot of cheddar.

It's a whole lot of cheddar, but he's well worth it in my opinion. Good decision by the Broncos.

 

[Money]

Well need to see the details of the contract to really understand our cap situation next year and the year after. Usually the way the Broncos design contracts is that 2nd year of the contract is the big cap hit. They like to front load contracts so they don't have to worry about dead money on the last couple of years of the deal. So good chance year #2 is about a $24-25 million cap hit with the rest under $20 million.

Well they can't really absorb anything in year 1, so yeah...I'm guessing year 2 is a whopper of a hit to help get on top of the deal.

 

[cdumler7]

Well they can't really absorb anything in year 1, so yeah...I'm guessing year 2 is a whopper of a hit to help get on top of the deal.

Year one will still be around $15 million is my guess. That has been the problem with a lot of these top Defensive contracts is teams have highly discounted the 1st year. Such as Justin Houston only had a cap hit of $5.1 million his first year leading to the future years of the deal all being around the $20 million mark. Suh only had a $6.1 million cap hit the first year of the deal leading to some ridiculous future years of his contract that will make life pretty hard on the Dolphins especially now that they already re-did his deal after year 1. Fletcher Cox falls into that same category of really low first year at $6.5 million.

The Broncos don't usually design contracts that way so that they don't have the dead money so they try to have a majority of the guaranteed money all count in those first 2 years. So yeah year 2 will be a big hit but year one won't be so discounted that 2 years into the contract the Broncos are already having to redo the deal just to make their cap work.

 

[Broncos6482]

It's a whole lot of cheddar, but he's well worth it in my opinion. Good decision by the Broncos.

It's more than I would have liked, but one way or another it had to be done. You couldn't let him get away.

His situation really mirrors the Flacco situation. Both hit free agency at the perfect time.

 

[cdumler7]

Well they can't really absorb anything in year 1, so yeah...I'm guessing year 2 is a whopper of a hit to help get on top of the deal.

Also have to remember right now he is already counting $14 million against the cap. So our cap number already has that part absorbed into this whole thing.

 

[Broncos6482]

Year one will still be around $15 million is my guess. That has been the problem with a lot of these top Defensive contracts is teams have highly discounted the 1st year. Such as Justin Houston only had a cap hit of $5.1 million his first year leading to the future years of the deal all being around the $20 million mark. Suh only had a $6.1 million cap hit the first year of the deal leading to some ridiculous future years of his contract that will make life pretty hard on the Dolphins especially now that they already re-did his deal after year 1. Fletcher Cox falls into that same category of really low first year at $6.5 million.

The Broncos don't usually design contracts that way so that they don't have the dead money so they try to have a majority of the guaranteed money all count in those first 2 years. So yeah year 2 will be a big hit but year one won't be so discounted that 2 years into the contract the Broncos are already having to redo the deal just to make their cap work.

That sounds about right. The Broncos have about $3 million in cap space right now (this factors in a $14 million cap number for Miller's tag), so they could structure it so the first year is about $15 million and still have a little bit of money left over to deal with injuries and what not. Then the really big hit will come in 2017 when they have the most cap room, leaving slightly smaller yearly numbers for the rest of the deal.

 

[BigKen]

Per Von Miller................."Who stole my pen? Where's that gaddamn pen? Gimme a freakin' pen!!!"

 

[RobBase]

I hear the new offer is for 70 million guaranteed. Why not just offer this to begin with?

 

[cdumler7]

That sounds about right. The Broncos have about $3 million in cap space right now (this factors in a $14 million cap number for Miller's tag), so they could structure it so the first year is about $15 million and still have a little bit of money left over to deal with injuries and what not. Then the really big hit will come in 2017 when they have the most cap room, leaving slightly smaller yearly numbers for the rest of the deal.

Yup and really they could offer more depending how they feel about a couple of the competitions going on in camp. Such as if Riley Dixon is running away with the punter position the Broncos could bump up his offer a bit more in year one to help out the future years knowing that gets them a little over $3 million in cap relief this year. Phil Taylor is another who has no dead money if cut. Not a huge cap savings but adds up if the coaches like the depth at the DL which they should. So yeah I don't see the Broncos needing to have that 1st year be at such a discounted rate to make this deal work. Even though Von will be the highest paid Defensive player in the league his cap hits should line up pretty well with all the other guys and be even more friendly than some like Suh because the Broncos find themselves in a pretty healthy cap situation.

 

[cdumler7]

I hear the new offer is for 70 million guaranteed. Why not just offer this to begin with?

Does anybody in business start with their best offer? I've done sales before and we were allowed to lower the price when talking to a customer 7 times to the point that the price of the item was half by the time we got done with it if somebody could hold out that long.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I hear the new offer is for 70 million guaranteed. Why not just offer this to begin with?

Because then Miller's camp would ask for something more than that assuming the best offer would be coming today- not in Feb. Nobody has that big of an ego when millions of dollars are at play.

 

[RobBase]

Does anybody in business start with their best offer? I've done sales before and we were allowed to lower the price when talking to a customer 7 times to the point that the price of the item was half by the time we got done with it if somebody could hold out that long.

Great way to lose customers, at least in my business. I'm in sales too and if a competitor improves their initial offer only after I've beaten it, I always get that sale, because the client immediately feels like they can't trust that guy.

With that said, I don't think you can compare it to NFL contracts. Miller's camp obviously had a number in line (little more than what Suh got). So if they value the guy, why run him around?

 

[RobBase]

Because then Miller's camp would ask for something more than that assuming the best offer would be coming today- not in Feb. Nobody has that big of an ego when millions of dollars are at play.

I think he had a number he wanted to be met, and stood firm. Between these negotiations and the way Osweiler was handled, Elway is doing himself no favors in the player relations dept.

 

[cdumler7]

Great way to lose customers, at least in my business. I'm in sales too and if a competitor improves their initial offer only after I've beaten it, I always get that sale, because the client immediately feels like they can't trust that guy.

With that said, I don't think you can compare it to NFL contracts. Miller's camp obviously had a number in line (little more than what Suh got). So if they value the guy, why run him around?

I will admit Elway and company did not handle this the best. They viewed this like past Franchise Tag players like DT and Clady where they could play a bit more hard ball to save a few bucks. Von Miller called them on their threats though and as we see today they took Miller's push back very seriously by bumping up the guaranteed money quite a bit. I would say Von Miller had more power than many thought in these negotiations because of the exclusive tag they gave him most NFL teams did not know that if a player sat out a year they could not just continue to use that tag to keep the player from other teams. So Miller had a bit more power and used it and the Broncos had to give in. Now they are not offering more money overall in the deal than what they offered a month and a half ago just the guaranteed money has bumped up so year by year the deal still looks pretty much the same just they can't cut him after 2 years at this point if things go south.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I think he had a number he wanted to be met, and stood firm. Between these negotiations and the way Osweiler was handled, Elway is doing himself no favors in the player relations dept.

Just about everyone I have ever heard of (including Broncos fans) who have met John personally thinks he's an asshole. He's not paid to be a camp counselor.