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SoCalWizFan

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Also, this claim by BA that KC's camp never responded to their offer from May.....what a bunch of BS. You telling me that in all of these reported "positive talks"that were occurring since may, Allen never said "hey, what do you think about that offer we presented?" Come on, Bruce, stop blowing smoke. Who, in their right mind (Dean excluded) could ever believe that it played out like Bruce is trying to paint it?

Yep & at a minimum a lack of a response indicates disagreement with the proposed contract (especially if this went on for months). Any idiot knows that. This one sounds very much like the clumsy handling of the firing of SM by Allen.
 

skinsdad62

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Speaking with 106.7 The Fan, Kirk Cousins said he did not make a counter offer to the Redskins because he "needed more time" to assess the organization.

The Redskins did very publicly -- and haphazardly -- reshuffle the front office this offseason, but Cousins certainly would have signed on the dotted line if the organization made him an acceptable offer, a fact he acknowledged later in the interview. "If the best we can get is a two-year deal, I might as well just keep playing on one-year deals," Cousins said about the Redskins' self-reported offer. Despite all that has happened including the team president attempting to drag him through the mud on Monday, Cousins said his "first choice" is to remain in Washington and did not rule out signing a long-term deal with the team. That is a story for after the season, however, and Cousins said his focus now "is on playing football."


Source: 106.7 The Fan
Jul 18 - 10:36 AM

whats wrong with that and how does that mean he is an asshole ?

Ok smart guy. what does "needed more time" to assess the organization" mean?

i dont know dean but the boss basically offered you a 2 year deal and then through you under a bus to make you look bad and you wonder why he would want to assess the organization ? how dumb are you ? you cant be that dumb

What does needed more time" to assess the organization" mean?

it mean BA just tossed me under the bus and i am pissed , that is what that means

I agree so if he wanted to be here long term he would of countered. He doesn't so he wants to play on the tag. I think that quote from KC that he would of singed a fair offer is bullshit.

so your bias is again showing . KC has never been caught in a public lie unlike your boy BA yet KC is the liar ? again we dont know either way because a fair deal was never offered

that is bullshit. I don't believe it.

based on what fact or history that isnt speculation ?

Of course not. How could you say you were right a million times if you actually believed what KC says. But you can read between the lines......unfortunately you just can't read the actual lines.

Again Dean, your Bias is showing. You believe every word that comes out of Bruce Allens mouth. But Kirk is obviously full of it in saying, hey I would have taken a real offer if it was fair. But a one year extension disguised as a six year contract.... wasnt really going to cut it.

IMO Kc would have not signed a fair offer if offered.


"Assess the organization" Lol. Player speak for, "I don't want to be here long term, but hey, if they gonna pay me $24 mill for this year, then I'll take it..I have no choice..., can't wait to get the fuck out of here though!"

what happened less then 24hrs earlier VT ? the boss tossed him under a bus and you wonder why or what that means as if it was in the cards all along ? BA tried to feed him to the wolves in the press!!! and it backfired

I guess that depends what you call fair? $52 million fully guaranteed, on a 5 year deal certainly seems like a fair place to start. Is it a lowball offer..yes.

your bias is either showing or you are completely ignorant of the terms . it was nothing more then a 2 year deal in which the skins could get out of in 2 years and draft their guy . the avg per year was 18 mil (if they kept him with low guarantees . if you think he would have signed that then you are blind as a bat .no one would sign that .

If we would have offered this back in February before we put the tag on him, decent chance he signs. But he is looking for closer to $75 million fully gtd today.
no he wouldnt have it was a crap offer

Exactly my point. At least you know what that really means. These guys don't.
only a fool like you wouldnt get it , hello MCFLY ? BA threw him under a bus less then 24 hrs ago , hello ? anyone home ?

Few key points,

1. It was actually $52M on a five year extension. Which in reality would have made it $52M on a six year deal.

2. That $52M included the $24M they already agreed to pay him on this year. So it was really only $28M in new money on a five year extension.

3. It only guaranteed 2017 and 2018, and was apparently configured in such a way as the team could cut him outright in 2019 with no negative impact on the team. Or more importantly, they could trade him going into 2018 and have another team take on the $28M. So the deal was setup so that Bruce could easily slide out of it and hand pick his next QB.

Now from a team standpoint that would be great. But I can see as to where Kirk would balk because no way do you want to be locked into a contract where Bruce could deal you to Siberia easily with no recourse but to retire.

Lastly, this was offered in May, and short of something more than a one year extension disguised as a six year deal, Bruce and company never really made an effort to sign him long term.

Aside from that.. .carry on.

VT , dean and anyone else read this before you put out foolishness

Also, this claim by BA that KC's camp never responded to their offer from May.....what a bunch of BS. You telling me that in all of these reported "positive talks"that were occurring since may, Allen never said "hey, what do you think about that offer we presented?" Come on, Bruce, stop blowing smoke. Who, in their right mind (Dean excluded) could ever believe that it played out like Bruce is trying to paint it?

exactly only the ABCrs would buy that stupidity

but now dean is using the liar liar pants on fire defense
 

Caliskinsfan

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Caliskinsfan

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skinsdad62

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so deanno and any others ? what more does KC have to say to get you to believe he wants to be a redskin?

or does your bias say he is just a liar ? i doubt he can say anything that will change your mind but ABCers arent interested in words , only "reading between the lines " hot garbage to justify their BS

what cant be accepted is he wasnt offered a fair deal , not even close so the only way you guys can save face is to talk some crap about counter offers and "he never really wants to be her " because my gut says so facts be damned
 

Caliskinsfan

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Brewer...

First, Bruce Allen made the Kirk Cousins situation bad. Then, he made it worse.
By Jerry Brewer

July 17, 2017 at 7:10 PM

imrs.php

Redskins President Bruce Allen did not take questions after reading a statement Monday.(Matt McClain/The Washington Post)
Some offseason, Washington Redskins. It began with a team official anonymously detailing Scot McCloughan’s alcohol abuse to justify firing the popular general manager. And it ended Monday afternoon with Bruce Allen, the team president and director of deception, breaking policy and common NFL courtesy, releasing the details of a failed contract negotiation with quarterback Kirk Cousins and demolishing a relationship’s trust just to combat a little criticism.

Two despicable bookends, crunching hope — that’s the best way to describe the past four months. For all the good the franchise has shown over the past two years, it has not changed. In fact, a modicum of success has made Washington only more arrogant, insufferable and dangerously unhinged.


First, the franchise dismissed McCloughan, a talent evaluator who set the team on the right path, while embarrassing him as best it could and shunning sensitivity toward the disease of alcoholism. Now, it wants to paint Cousins, who has helped turn around the team with his performance and professionalism, as greedy and unreasonable in negotiations.

Is it any wonder why Cousins is so reticent to commit long term to this travesty of an organization? Of the many things a player doesn’t want his franchise to be, I’m guessing petty and classless are high on the list.

Related: Dan Steinberg: For Redskins, Kirk Cousins remains a franchise quarterback at arm’s length

The window to sign Cousins to a multiyear deal closed at 4 p.m. Monday, which means he will play under the franchise-player tag — a one-year deal that will pay him approximately $24 million this season — for a second straight year. Anticipating the backlash, Allen sent a statement in which he broke protocol to “clarify our negotiations” with Cousins. In it, he revealed an offer that Washington made to Cousins in May: $53 million upon signing and a total $72 million in guarantees when counting money guaranteed only if the player gets injured. According to Allen, the deal “would have made him at least the second-highest-paid player by average per year in NFL history.”

The way Allen constructed his words and presented his side, it makes Cousins look bad. It also eliminates the context of the quarterback market and this specific negotiation with Cousins. It’s one thing to throw out general numbers and hope that media and fans get caught up in the amount. It’s another thing to understand NFL reality and conclude that this deal, while considerable to the average person, wasn’t a great offer for Cousins’s situation.


According to reporting from The Washington Post’s Mike Jones, Washington’s May contract proposal — essentially five new years added onto his 2017 franchise-tag salary — didn’t fully guarantee Cousins anything beyond the 2018 season. Allen merely took the $23.9 million that Cousins was going to play for anyway this season under the franchise tag and added something close to the potential $28.7 million transition tag that Washington has considered placing on Cousins for 2018. After that, there were no full guarantees, only protection against injury, for the last four years of the deal. In addition, his non-guaranteed base salaries would go down every year, a time in which the 28-year-old Cousins will be in his prime.

From Cousins’s perspective, the offer didn’t warrant a response because it clearly was an inferior offer based on the leverage he has in this exploding NFL quarterback market. Think about it like this: When he signed the franchise-tag offer sheet, Cousins knew he’d make $23.9 million. Then, for the next five years, Allen was offering him about $29 million guaranteed. Even if you made the injury guarantees into full guarantees, the commitment would just be $48 million over the five years after the 2017 season. That’s an interesting, franchise-friendly starting offer. But it’s not something that Cousins was going to sign. And it’s so far from a realistic closing deal that it wasn’t even worth a response from Cousins’s agent, Mike McCartney.

The silence from Cousins’s side, which Allen referenced in his statement, was a polite way of expressing, “Get real, dude.”

Instead, Allen pouted and tried to deceive the public.


Related: Bruce Allen says Kirk Cousins camp wasn’t responsive ‘despite repeated attempts’

So much for a Cousins contract not being “as complicated as everyone wants to make it.” That’s how Allen spun the situation in February. Five months later, a critical negotiating period has passed; there is no deal for a second straight offseason; and the truth of summer has withered all winter optimism.

Unlike a year ago, when Cousins was first tagged, this is no longer a process to verify Cousins’s talent after a career year. This is no longer a situation that Washington has under control, either. No, it isn’t as complicated as everyone wants to make it; it’s more complicated than anyone could imagine. And Allen’s silly, face-saving attempt only made matters worse.

Rarely has a deadline felt so literal: Time is up, and the possibility of a fair — or at least mutually digestible — deal is dead. We’ve reached 99.9 percent certainty that Cousins’s time in Washington will be over after the season ends.

There’s always a chance that something wild can happen — a better-than-anticipated season, a moment that makes both sides come together like never before — but that would be an upset. Cousins, who hasn’t always felt wanted here and who quietly has a difficult time stomaching the constant dysfunction, most likely will be gone.

For Washington, there’s no way back to respectability in this situation. This offseason represented the franchise’s best chance to sign its quarterback, who has thrown for 9,083 yards and 54 touchdowns the past two seasons, or trade him for a quality return. Either would’ve made good football sense. But doing neither? It’s a potentially catastrophic screw-up. Or, business as usual in Ashburn.


Now we all brace for impact. That’s what Allen did Monday by making a preemptive case that Washington has handled the negotiations properly but Cousins won’t come to the table. Allen might have changed the conversation, or added to it, but he is not thinking about what will happen next week: His quarterback, this player he supposedly wants to sign, will report to training camp and begin a probable lame-duck season under heavy questioning about his motives and desire to be here. Cousins will be more scrutinized than ever, furthering the belief that he will never get to relax and be happy in Washington.

It will be a weird season. It will be chaotic. It will be typical, sadly.

Mostly, however, it will be ugly, because that’s how this franchise likes it.
 

Caliskinsfan

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In fairness, another viewpoint on what Kirk said. Basically it comes down to who you believe Kirk is...and there are always going to be differing opinions about that.

 

Caliskinsfan

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For those that want to listen to the Kirk interview on 106.7 today, here's the link...

 

BeaReylo

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I can name 3-5 teams that would have signed him long term in a heart beat. Washingon didnt because Bruce Allen is a dufus, and Kirk isnt cool enough for the owner or a portion of the fan base.

Guarantee you The 49ers or Rams would have snagged him on a LTD the second he hit free agency. Both their head coaches have worked with Big Cuz and know what he is capable of.
 
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ehb5

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Five year Extention on top of this year..

Six year total contract length, $18.3M AYV with $57M fully guaranteed, $72M for injury only.

Bruce is nothing if not an very good spin doctor dude.

22.3 AYV but your point stands
 

Sleepy T

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In fairness, another viewpoint on what Kirk said. Basically it comes down to who you believe Kirk is...and there are always going to be differing opinions about that.


And this ^^^^ has been my whole point all along. Take anything he says with a grain of salt. Not calling him a liar, none of us truly know how he feels. But in my opinion he doesn't want to be here, if he did, he and his agent would have been engaged in a little more dialogue. Just my opinion.

It's hard for me to understand why most of you are completely discounting the possibility that anything Cuz would say would be "partly true". That he is just saying what needs to be said for his best interests.

I have no doubt KC would be open to signing long term as a Skin, if A, B, C, D, E & F happen.
 

ehb5

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Actually the average yearly value would be a cool $6M below this years tag.

Oh and it was structured in such a way that they could cut him outright after 2018 and save cap space. So it was really just a one year extension with $1.5M more than the trans tag for next year.

Bruce thinks he is slick, and some fans will fall for it hook line and sinker

1.6M below this years tag*
 

reptec101

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I think it's foolish to believe either of them. Bruce and Kirk. Both are fluffing the pillow from each side. They can't say what they really want until they belong to seperate teams. Even then Kirk will say only nice and positive things about the team... its just how he's wired, and Bruce will only continue to cast the blame on Kirk. Did everything we could blah blah blah. Why listen at all. The outburst from Kirk caught in the moment "you like that".. "how u like me now".. is the truth you need to hear. Not the politically correct BS from Kirk that he's had time to think over. The dude wants a new start with a new team... bottom line. All you need to believe whatever they say.
 

Skin'EmAll

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I think it's foolish to believe either of them. Bruce and Kirk. Both are fluffing the pillow from each side. They can't say what they really want until they belong to seperate teams. Even then Kirk will say only nice and positive things about the team... its just how he's wired, and Bruce will only continue to cast the blame on Kirk. Did everything we could blah blah blah. Why listen at all. The outburst from Kirk caught in the moment "you like that".. "how u like me now".. is the truth you need to hear. Not the politically correct BS from Kirk that he's had time to think over. The dude wants a new start with a new team... bottom line. All you need to believe whatever they say.

I'd disagree. I got to hear bits and pieces of the 106.7 interview this morning and I'm sure it will be posted, replayed and quoted if not already on the internet. But before a journalist can spin the interview to his choosing,
it was pretty clear Kirk was fine with the TAG(s) due to lowball, insulting offers. And perhaps even attemped to move on because of it(asking Snyder if he was trade bait) He did play or flip Bruce's dirty tactics pretty well by saying at the end of the season, it would be foolish to think SF and LA are the #1 options for him.
He said depending on the tags or no tags...trying to work out a deal with the 'skins would make sense(probably a bluff but huge for anybody who fell for Bruce's attempts to make "kurt" looks greedy.
 

Sharkinva

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22.3 AYV but your point stands
Six years

six years $110 total value

110/6= 18.333

Now IF they were tacking that on TOP of the $24M tag...


Then it would be $22.333M AYV

But thats splitting hairs as apparently the real issue was, most of that money aside from the $52M would likely never have been seen short of Kirk winning a Lombardi in the next two seasons.
 

ehb5

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Six years

six years $110 total value

110/6= 18.333

Now IF they were tacking that on TOP of the $24M tag...


Then it would be $22.333M AYV

But thats splitting hairs as apparently the real issue was, most of that money aside from the $52M would likely never have been seen short of Kirk winning a Lombardi in the next two seasons.

They were tacking it on top. Its a 5 year extension, so effectively 6 year 133.9M dollar deal.

I do agree though that the guaranteed money was the key part of the deal and made it pointless for Kirk to accept.
 

skinz2winz

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We shall see how "sincere" the Redskins are the first 2 months of next season about signing Kirk long term. That deal will start at $28M for next season with the following years guaranteed money also in the equation so likely topping $60M (which we all know KC's camp will not agree to a 2 year deal as he stated) so in all likely hood, the guaranteed money will have to top $75M for him to sign ANY LTD next off season.
 

skinsdad62

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Brewer...

First, Bruce Allen made the Kirk Cousins situation bad. Then, he made it worse.
By Jerry Brewer

July 17, 2017 at 7:10 PM

imrs.php

Redskins President Bruce Allen did not take questions after reading a statement Monday.(Matt McClain/The Washington Post)
Some offseason, Washington Redskins. It began with a team official anonymously detailing Scot McCloughan’s alcohol abuse to justify firing the popular general manager. And it ended Monday afternoon with Bruce Allen, the team president and director of deception, breaking policy and common NFL courtesy, releasing the details of a failed contract negotiation with quarterback Kirk Cousins and demolishing a relationship’s trust just to combat a little criticism.

Two despicable bookends, crunching hope — that’s the best way to describe the past four months. For all the good the franchise has shown over the past two years, it has not changed. In fact, a modicum of success has made Washington only more arrogant, insufferable and dangerously unhinged.


First, the franchise dismissed McCloughan, a talent evaluator who set the team on the right path, while embarrassing him as best it could and shunning sensitivity toward the disease of alcoholism. Now, it wants to paint Cousins, who has helped turn around the team with his performance and professionalism, as greedy and unreasonable in negotiations.

Is it any wonder why Cousins is so reticent to commit long term to this travesty of an organization? Of the many things a player doesn’t want his franchise to be, I’m guessing petty and classless are high on the list.

Related: Dan Steinberg: For Redskins, Kirk Cousins remains a franchise quarterback at arm’s length

The window to sign Cousins to a multiyear deal closed at 4 p.m. Monday, which means he will play under the franchise-player tag — a one-year deal that will pay him approximately $24 million this season — for a second straight year. Anticipating the backlash, Allen sent a statement in which he broke protocol to “clarify our negotiations” with Cousins. In it, he revealed an offer that Washington made to Cousins in May: $53 million upon signing and a total $72 million in guarantees when counting money guaranteed only if the player gets injured. According to Allen, the deal “would have made him at least the second-highest-paid player by average per year in NFL history.”

The way Allen constructed his words and presented his side, it makes Cousins look bad. It also eliminates the context of the quarterback market and this specific negotiation with Cousins. It’s one thing to throw out general numbers and hope that media and fans get caught up in the amount. It’s another thing to understand NFL reality and conclude that this deal, while considerable to the average person, wasn’t a great offer for Cousins’s situation.


According to reporting from The Washington Post’s Mike Jones, Washington’s May contract proposal — essentially five new years added onto his 2017 franchise-tag salary — didn’t fully guarantee Cousins anything beyond the 2018 season. Allen merely took the $23.9 million that Cousins was going to play for anyway this season under the franchise tag and added something close to the potential $28.7 million transition tag that Washington has considered placing on Cousins for 2018. After that, there were no full guarantees, only protection against injury, for the last four years of the deal. In addition, his non-guaranteed base salaries would go down every year, a time in which the 28-year-old Cousins will be in his prime.

From Cousins’s perspective, the offer didn’t warrant a response because it clearly was an inferior offer based on the leverage he has in this exploding NFL quarterback market. Think about it like this: When he signed the franchise-tag offer sheet, Cousins knew he’d make $23.9 million. Then, for the next five years, Allen was offering him about $29 million guaranteed. Even if you made the injury guarantees into full guarantees, the commitment would just be $48 million over the five years after the 2017 season. That’s an interesting, franchise-friendly starting offer. But it’s not something that Cousins was going to sign. And it’s so far from a realistic closing deal that it wasn’t even worth a response from Cousins’s agent, Mike McCartney.

The silence from Cousins’s side, which Allen referenced in his statement, was a polite way of expressing, “Get real, dude.”

Instead, Allen pouted and tried to deceive the public.


Related: Bruce Allen says Kirk Cousins camp wasn’t responsive ‘despite repeated attempts’

So much for a Cousins contract not being “as complicated as everyone wants to make it.” That’s how Allen spun the situation in February. Five months later, a critical negotiating period has passed; there is no deal for a second straight offseason; and the truth of summer has withered all winter optimism.

Unlike a year ago, when Cousins was first tagged, this is no longer a process to verify Cousins’s talent after a career year. This is no longer a situation that Washington has under control, either. No, it isn’t as complicated as everyone wants to make it; it’s more complicated than anyone could imagine. And Allen’s silly, face-saving attempt only made matters worse.

Rarely has a deadline felt so literal: Time is up, and the possibility of a fair — or at least mutually digestible — deal is dead. We’ve reached 99.9 percent certainty that Cousins’s time in Washington will be over after the season ends.

There’s always a chance that something wild can happen — a better-than-anticipated season, a moment that makes both sides come together like never before — but that would be an upset. Cousins, who hasn’t always felt wanted here and who quietly has a difficult time stomaching the constant dysfunction, most likely will be gone.

For Washington, there’s no way back to respectability in this situation. This offseason represented the franchise’s best chance to sign its quarterback, who has thrown for 9,083 yards and 54 touchdowns the past two seasons, or trade him for a quality return. Either would’ve made good football sense. But doing neither? It’s a potentially catastrophic screw-up. Or, business as usual in Ashburn.


Now we all brace for impact. That’s what Allen did Monday by making a preemptive case that Washington has handled the negotiations properly but Cousins won’t come to the table. Allen might have changed the conversation, or added to it, but he is not thinking about what will happen next week: His quarterback, this player he supposedly wants to sign, will report to training camp and begin a probable lame-duck season under heavy questioning about his motives and desire to be here. Cousins will be more scrutinized than ever, furthering the belief that he will never get to relax and be happy in Washington.

It will be a weird season. It will be chaotic. It will be typical, sadly.

Mostly, however, it will be ugly, because that’s how this franchise likes it.
did you read this deanno and the ABCrs ? some of you have no clue about this contract . get educated then talk to me
 

Stymietee

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Outsider's view here, which I'm sure you guys don't want/need any more of at this point...

But did they ever offer him anything close to a fair offer? And how long do you expect him to wait for that to come?

Assess the organization? More like assess if these assholes really want me here.

Yes, yes they did make fair offers, just NOT what it appears a lot of folks consider "Fair" Essentially, they have repeatedly said to Kirk and anyone paying attention, "This is what we believe you're worth!" from their perspective those offers were "fair." From the perspective of Kirk and others, everything that they offered him was a non starter, so year after year the dance continued to no avail.

They didn't want to lose him and believed that he, not them, would cave and accept their offers. In fact they were willing to pay the CBA mandated tag amounts in order to give him time to reconsider. Fire Bruce Allen, absolutely!! but if I'm Kirk I would strongly consider getting new representation, now that my money is in the bank. For anyone interested, I'll answer the Why?? question in subsequent posts if requested.
 
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