Penn State

[VTscores]

How true is the rumor that the NCAA will hand out additional scholarships to schools who take PSU players?

I don't see THAT happening at all. Why would they, and how would that be fair?

 

[Whatsupppppppp]

How true is the rumor that the NCAA will hand out additional scholarships to schools who take PSU players?

Fact

if you go over 25 this year, you can do it, but you must make corrections next year.

Its still unknown if schools on limitations, like USC, UNC, etc are allowed, and it is still uncertain how many you can go over. One for sure, beyond that, still being worked out.

 

[Whatsupppppppp]

I should have added, you can go over the 85 also by the looks of things.

 

[hokiecat]

I heard from a Syracuse alum that PSU transfers don't count against the 25 or the 85 limits. If that is the case, then the NCAA is really trying to tear PSU a new one.

 

[hokiecat]

It sounds like NCAA is willing to allow transfers with a soft cap examined on case-by-case basis.

NCAA relaxes transfer rules to help Penn State football players who want to leave | PennLive.com

 

[Whatsupppppppp]

I heard from a Syracuse alum that PSU transfers don't count against the 25 or the 85 limits. If that is the case, then the NCAA is really trying to tear PSU a new one.

NCAA announced this morning that they are likely to do something along those lines, but nothing was final at that time. I don't see anything official that finalizes it or kills it.

However, all behind the scenes chatter indicates that for sure, one will be allowed, and at least for this year, you would be OK going over both the 25 and 85, but it must be corrected the following year back to 85. Its not stated whether or not the following year would be limited to 24 if you were to go one over this year. Still working it out I believe.

Questionable if more than one will be OK.

 

[MattB4VT]

Penn state got off pretty easy IMO

 

[Whatsupppppppp]

Here's the blurb from the NCAA press release today.

Additionally, the NCAA is considering waiving scholarship limits for programs to which these football student-athletes transfer, provided they reduce proportionately in the next year. For example, the limit is 25 new scholarships per year to a total of 85 scholarships. If the limits are waived in 2012-13 to accommodate one Penn State student-athlete who wishes to transfer to a particular school already at the limits, in 2013-14 the school will be limited to 24 new scholarships and 84 total scholarships.

IMO, the prese release was rushed out, and is fucked up. If you were to go over 85 to 86 this year, next year should go back to 85, which is the max allowed by rule.

Dropping to 84 as the release states makes no sense at all. I think it was a press secretary rushing something out without vetting first.

I get their RSS feed and havent seen a correction yet.

 

[VTscores]

It sounds like NCAA is willing to allow transfers with a soft cap examined on case-by-case basis.

NCAA relaxes transfer rules to help Penn State football players who want to leave | PennLive.com

Wow, it does seem to be true. But the the extra numbers would come out of next year's numbers. So in other words, institutions accepting current players would likely get an extra scholarship for that candidate for one year. Current recruits can just get out of their LOI, and the receiving school wouldn't get a scholarship advantage.



"Additionally, even if a Penn State player wants to transfer to a school that is already at its 85-scholarship cap, the NCAA said it would work with institutions on a case-by-case basis to facilitate that transfer.

To give Penn State players maximum options while maintaining competitive balance, Lennon said the NCAA would perhaps ask the school which might be at its 85-scholarship cap to accept a transferring Penn State player, but to reduce the number of scholarships it awarded in a subsequent recruiting class."

 

[VTscores]

NCAA announced this morning that they are likely to do something along those lines, but nothing was final at that time. I don't see anything official that finalizes it or kills it.

However, all behind the scenes chatter indicates that for sure, one will be allowed, and at least for this year, you would be OK going over both the 25 and 85, but it must be corrected the following year back to 85. Its not stated whether or not the following year would be limited to 24 if you were to go one over this year. Still working it out I believe.

Questionable if more than one will be OK.

I think it's "let's make a deal", but basically if you're at your limit you could still accept transfers, but your scholarship advantage would only last for one year. Still, I could see someone getting a little bit of an advantage if they got several transfers.

 

[Whatsupppppppp]

I think it's "let's make a deal", but basically if you're at your limit you could still accept transfers, but your scholarship advantage would only last for one year. Still, I could see someone getting a little bit of an advantage if they got several transfers.

The link is just some bloggers guesswork.

The NCAA press release came out a couple of hours later, but isn't definitive at all. It hints to it, shows the example, but I don't see why a school would consider it, when you have to give two back the next year, instead of reverting back to 85.

Its the 84 that is at issue. The press release example means that you have to average 85 this year and next year. If you go to 86 this year, you have to go to 84 next year. Thats what doesn't make sense, because its a negative for the second year for the school, being one under the rest of the country.

Its the NCAA do no harm bullshit once again. They want to help the players transfer, but they don't want schools who don't take a PS player to be penalized by being required to play a team with a higher limit. So, they try to balance it out the second year.

Using their logic, if you took three, and went to 88 this year, you would be required to go to 82 the following year, to average 85. Thats the catch. and its a major negative, which gets really pronounced when you go more than one. Losing six off your max in one year isn't worth it in the long run. Even taking one is problematic, if it means you go over 85.

IMO, I think they limit schools to one, and hopefully shave their fuzzy math.

 

[wildturkey]

The more I think about it, the more I don't like the punishment. And its not because I'm supporting PSU. It's because I don't think the NCAA has the authority to dole out such punishment. What happened at Penn St is not a football issue. No players or coaches were cheating, point shaving, taking money from boosters, etc. This is what the NCAA is suppose to police. What happened at PSU was a criminal activity committed by a person involved with an athletic program (Sandusky) and covered up by university officials (along with Paterno. This jurisdiction belongs to the legal system.

To me, this punishment is the NCAA jumping in to give the appearance they are doing something (even though they don't really have to) to appease the public. And of course the public will go along with it because the crimes committed at PSU were horrid and also most believe the NCAA has authority similar to that of the NFL, which it doesn't (though it could be argued Goodell oversteps his authority in the NFL as well).

The punishments, in effect, do nothing to punish the people actually involved in the horrible crimes of Sandusky. These punishments affect football. And isn't that what got this whole mess started to begin with; putting football above all else?

 

[VTscores]

Child molestation was covered up by football and university administrators in an attempt to protect a football program.

How can you say it's not a football issue?

 

[wildturkey]

Child molestation was covered up by football and university administrators in an attempt to protect a football program.

How can you say it's not a football issue?

Because it doesn't affect the Xs and Os on the field. They're not gaining an advantage over another team by it as you do by playing ineligible players, etc. What you have here is an institutional issue.

 

[Whatsupppppppp]

Here's my take on the PS scholarship numbers.

2012-13 25/85
2013-14 15/85
2014-15 15/65
2015-16 15/65
2016-17 15/65
2017/18 25/65

As fucked up as it looks, this is what it works out to be, unless I totally fucked up someplace.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

13-14 will be 15/75 and 17-18 will be 25/85

 

[Whatsupppppppp]

Check it against the criteria below and let me know if you agree with this chart. Seems to fit the penalty they laid out.

2012-13 25/85
2013-14 15/85
2014-15 15/65
2015-16 15/65
2016-17 15/65
2017/18 25/65
2018/19 25/85

Four-year reduction of grants-in-aid. For a period of four years commencing with the 2013-2014 academic year and expiring at the conclusion of the 2016-2017 academic year, the NCAA imposes a limit of 15 initial grants-in-aid (from a maximum of 25 allowed) and for a period of four years commencing with the 2014-2015 academic year and expiring at the conclusion of the 2017-2018 academic year a limit of 65 total grants-in-aid (from a maximum of 85 allowed) for football during each of those specified years. In the event the total number of grants-in-aid drops below 65, the University may award grants-in-aid to non-scholarship student-athletes who have been members of the football program as allowed under Bylaw 15.5.6.3.6.

 

[Whatsupppppppp]

13-14 will be 15/75 and 17-18 will be 25/85

dont think so, see above

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

ok then, i thought there was a work down 75 scholly period though.

 

[Whatsupppppppp]

13-14 will be 15/75 and 17-18 will be 25/85

Nowhere do they address the max for 13/14 as being decrimented, so it stays at 85

Then, for four years starting 14/15, the max drops to 65.

All that yields a real bad situation in 14/15, dropping 20 all at once from the max.

Surprisingly, they dont get back to normal till the 18/19 season, and even then, 25 wont be enough to get them back to 85.