Game Thread: Panthers at Seahawks, 1:25PM PST

[AceKeptic]

Or Beef up our D line

That is EXACTLY what we need, and have been needing for what seems like ages (well, the last few years, anyway).

Nope, after this one, I really don't have much hope that they'll do anything. Geno can bounce back and continue what he's been doing at QB, but that doesn't always bail out a defense that simply ISN'T one. We need more focus there first and foremost.

Saw a little bit of the post-game and how quick Carroll was to get outta there after his time behind the mic. It's almost as if...dare I say it?...his job is on the line.

 

[seattlefan75]

I know the knee jerk thing is fix the DL and of course it was frustrating watching them 3-4 yards rushing every time. They dominated the time of possession and didn't turn the ball over. it was like we got Pete Carroll'd.

 

[flyerhawk]

I know the knee jerk thing is fix the DL and of course it was frustrating watching them 3-4 yards rushing every time. They dominated the time of possession and didn't turn the ball over. it was like we got Pete Carroll'd.

The Panthers average 4.8 yards per carry last night. And they didn't have any huge runs to skew the numbers. We were run over last night, especially after Al Woods got knocked out.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

The Panthers average 4.8 yards per carry last night. And they didn't have any huge runs to skew the numbers. We were run over last night, especially after Al Woods got knocked out.

Yep.. everyone knew that they were going to run... including sweeps and QB runs... and Seattle still couldn't stop them at all.. we marched out that dumbass 2 down lineman front and Barton way more than we should... and yah, loss.

Hurtt really needs to go at this point and Carroll needs to be on the hot seat. I don't know what the hell Seattle changed from 4+ weeks ago, but whoever is responsible for that (whether Pete or Clint) needs to be on the seat as a result.

ZERO reason we should've lost the Raiders or this game... and zero reason we nearly lost the Rams game (despite the bullshit Wagner INT). Get rid of Hurtt and just go back to a 4-3 for the love of God. This entire Hurtt 3-4 experiment has gotta be the dumbest transition in NFL history. You acquired a 31 year old DE in a 3-4 and a 3-4 OLB... and the remaining front 7, 5 on your team that you RESIGNED/DRAFTED were ALL 4-3 players. Fuckin' ridiculous.

I said it very early on this season. Fire Hurtt... yah we did okay for a stretch there against complete shit teams... but yah, firing Hurtt would've been the correct move 100%. We don't even get a diversity draft pick since he was promoted within...

 

[seahawksfan234]

Yep.. everyone knew that they were going to run... including sweeps and QB runs... and Seattle still couldn't stop them at all.. we marched out that dumbass 2 down lineman front and Barton way more than we should... and yah, loss.

Hurtt really needs to go at this point and Carroll needs to be on the hot seat. I don't know what the hell Seattle changed from 4+ weeks ago, but whoever is responsible for that (whether Pete or Clint) needs to be on the seat as a result.

ZERO reason we should've lost the Raiders or this game... and zero reason we nearly lost the Rams game (despite the bullshit Wagner INT). Get rid of Hurtt and just go back to a 4-3 for the love of God. This entire Hurtt 3-4 experiment has gotta be the dumbest transition in NFL history. You acquired a 31 year old DE in a 3-4 and a 3-4 OLB... and the remaining front 7, 5 on your team that you RESIGNED/DRAFTED were ALL 4-3 players. Fuckin' ridiculous.

I said it very early on this season. Fire Hurtt... yah we did okay for a stretch there against complete shit teams... but yah, firing Hurtt would've been the correct move 100%. We don't even get a diversity draft pick since he was promoted within...

Thankfully there is a ton of edge talent out there in the draft this year, see my post on the "Too Early to Talk about the draft" thread.

A lot of those guys have experience in 3-4/2-4-5 schemes.

Biggest reason I'd like to see us extend Geno is because as good as Bryce Young and C.J. Stroud are, Jalen Carter or Will Anderson Jr. would be such immediate impact players it would be a shame to pass on them when we can just retain Geno.

Also I have concerns about Stroud. As good as he is, he seems to get uncomfortable when he faces pressure and in the NFL he's not going to have an offensive line that's going to keep him clean 100% of the time and a WR room so deep that his fourth string WR will be a first round pick some day. Despite the elite talent Bryce Young has at Alabama, he is able to make things happen when the play breaks down.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Thankfully there is a ton of edge talent out there in the draft this year, see my post on the "Too Early to Talk about the draft" thread.

A lot of those guys have experience in 3-4/2-4-5 schemes.

Biggest reason I'd like to see us extend Geno is because as good as Bryce Young and C.J. Stroud are, Jalen Carter or Will Anderson Jr. would be such immediate impact players it would be a shame to pass on them when we can just retain Geno.

Also I have concerns about Stroud. As good as he is, he seems to get uncomfortable when he faces pressure and in the NFL he's not going to have an offensive line that's going to keep him clean 100% of the time and a WR room so deep that his fourth string WR will be a first round pick some day. Despite the elite talent Bryce Young has at Alabama, he is able to make things happen when the play breaks down.

Only way I'd agree for any of the QBs this year is because we have Schneider, otherwise I 100% agree we need Anderson/Carter with the top 3, and then front 7 for the other 2 picks, and a center in there...

 

[seahawksfan234]

Only way I'd agree for any of the QBs this year is because we have Schneider, otherwise I 100% agree we need Anderson/Carter with the top 3, and then front 7 for the other 2 picks, and a center in there...

I'd rather extend Geno and land Anderson or Carter than roll the dice and draft C.J. Stroud or Bryce Young (who likely won't be available when we pick). I like Stroud a lot, but I have some concerns.

Regarding center, unfortunately this isn't a very strong draft for interior offensive linemen. I'll forever hate the fact that we took Eskridge over Creed Humphrey.

Seahawks will probably have to find replacements at center and maybe RG. Gabe Jackson is mid-tier at best, but will carry a $11m cap hit in 2023.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I'd rather extend Geno and land Anderson or Carter than roll the dice and draft C.J. Stroud or Bryce Young (who likely won't be available when we pick). I like Stroud a lot, but I have some concerns.

Regarding center, unfortunately this isn't a very strong draft for interior offensive linemen. I'll forever hate the fact that we took Eskridge over Creed Humphrey.

Seahawks will probably have to find replacements at center and maybe RG. Gabe Jackson is mid-tier at best, but will carry a $11m cap hit in 2023.

Yah.. sucks that Dee was to appease Russell's team 3 dumbass..... we really could've used Humphrey.

I like you would prefer Anderson/Carter, but there's a reason I'm not being paid the big bucks in terms of NFL scouting/GM, etc. Schneider seems to have a very good track record, so if he believes Stroud/Young are the guys... and they are there, I'll surrender my preference and give it an A overall grade.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yep.. everyone knew that they were going to run... including sweeps and QB runs... and Seattle still couldn't stop them at all.. we marched out that dumbass 2 down lineman front and Barton way more than we should... and yah, loss.

Hurtt really needs to go at this point and Carroll needs to be on the hot seat. I don't know what the hell Seattle changed from 4+ weeks ago, but whoever is responsible for that (whether Pete or Clint) needs to be on the seat as a result.

ZERO reason we should've lost the Raiders or this game... and zero reason we nearly lost the Rams game (despite the bullshit Wagner INT). Get rid of Hurtt and just go back to a 4-3 for the love of God. This entire Hurtt 3-4 experiment has gotta be the dumbest transition in NFL history. You acquired a 31 year old DE in a 3-4 and a 3-4 OLB... and the remaining front 7, 5 on your team that you RESIGNED/DRAFTED were ALL 4-3 players. Fuckin' ridiculous.

I said it very early on this season. Fire Hurtt... yah we did okay for a stretch there against complete shit teams... but yah, firing Hurtt would've been the correct move 100%. We don't even get a diversity draft pick since he was promoted within...

What's funny about this is that just about EVERYONE thought this was a rebuilding year. We over perform for a bit and suddenly we need to start firing coaches?

Our defense sucks. It's as simple as that. And it sucks because we have a lack of talent. The only players playing at an above average level for the defense are Tariq, Neal, Nwosu, Harris, and Woods. Collier, Jefferson, Mone, Ford, Taylor, and Irvin are all playing below league average especially on run defense. This isn't about scheme. We CONSTANTLY saw the Panthers RB run into a pile and somehow escape for a 10 yard run. Numerous times we saw the RB stood up only to wind up getting 3 or 4 more yards from the scrum push.

We are undersized regardless of the scheme we are playing ESPECIALLY when Woods and Harris are out. So maybe we need to fire Hurtt. Maybe we need to fire Pete. But that won't change our lack of defensive talent.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

What's funny about this is that just about EVERYONE thought this was a rebuilding year. We over perform for a bit and suddenly we need to start firing coaches?

Our defense sucks. It's as simple as that. And it sucks because we have a lack of talent. The only players playing at an above average level for the defense are Tariq, Neal, Nwosu, Harris, and Woods. Collier, Jefferson, Mone, Ford, Taylor, and Irvin are all playing below league average especially on run defense. This isn't about scheme. We CONSTANTLY saw the Panthers RB run into a pile and somehow escape for a 10 yard run. Numerous times we saw the RB stood up only to wind up getting 3 or 4 more yards from the scrum push.

We are undersized regardless of the scheme we are playing ESPECIALLY when Woods and Harris are out. So maybe we need to fire Hurtt. Maybe we need to fire Pete. But that won't change our lack of defensive talent.

Well it's interesting you say that flyer..

First and foremost, this was absolutely a rebuilding year... nobody expected Seattle to win 4 games let alone 7. Everyone agrees on that.

Well... let's give credit where credit is due... clearly Waldron put together an offensive system where we could excel, and excel the Seahawks offense has done. While Geno made some dumb throws yesterday, the blame is... eh, EXCUSABLE. We'll put it that way. When you're on your 3rd-4th string RB against a good defense, I can pardon it.

What I can't pardon is a Seahawks defense that was top 3 last year against the run (yes TOP 3) allowing a shitty ass Carolina team with a 4th string (pretty sure?) QB to just run all over us. It was one of the most pathetic displays of defense I've ever seen. Carolina wasn't ripping off big yards.. they were just going up the gut (Jesus they ran the same play over and over, it was like a 5 year old hitting one button on an XBOX/PS5 controller and winning the game). It was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen.

AND, WE KNEW IT WAS COMING. It was right there in our face. And Seattle marched out that dumbass 2-4-5 bullshit and .. Oh Jesus I don't even want to say his name anymore.. Brooks was playing like shit as well.

So YAH, it's on the coaches at this point. Let's go back to oh what I said when I started this fuckin' thread:

1) Keep Barton on the field for <= 35 snaps.
2) Do not do the stupid 2-4-5.
3) Do not sell so hard on the run you're getting destroyed by sweeps or Darnold taking off.

And there ya go... I mean... I'll take some fuckin' respect on this forum because Carolina literally read my post and was like, "This fuckin bipedal bitch knows what he's talking about. If Seattle does that, we win." And Carroll read my post as well and was like, "HOW DARE HE! WE'LL PROVE HIM WRONG!"

 

[flyerhawk]

Well it's interesting you say that flyer..

First and foremost, this was absolutely a rebuilding year... nobody expected Seattle to win 4 games let alone 7. Everyone agrees on that.

Well... let's give credit where credit is due... clearly Waldron put together an offensive system where we could excel, and excel the Seahawks offense has done. While Geno made some dumb throws yesterday, the blame is... eh, EXCUSABLE. We'll put it that way. When you're on your 3rd-4th string RB against a good defense, I can pardon it.

What I can't pardon is a Seahawks defense that was top 3 last year against the run (yes TOP 3) allowing a shitty ass Carolina team with a 4th string (pretty sure?) QB to just run all over us. It was one of the most pathetic displays of defense I've ever seen. Carolina wasn't ripping off big yards.. they were just going up the gut (Jesus they ran the same play over and over, it was like a 5 year old hitting one button on an XBOX/PS5 controller and winning the game). It was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen.

AND, WE KNEW IT WAS COMING. It was right there in our face. And Seattle marched out that dumbass 2-4-5 bullshit and .. Oh Jesus I don't even want to say his name anymore.. Brooks was playing like shit as well.

So YAH, it's on the coaches at this point. Let's go back to oh what I said when I started this fuckin' thread:

1) Keep Barton on the field for <= 35 snaps.
2) Do not do the stupid 2-4-5.
3) Do not sell so hard on the run you're getting destroyed by sweeps or Darnold taking off.

And there ya go... I mean... I'll take some fuckin' respect on this forum because Carolina literally read my post and was like, "This fuckin bipedal bitch knows what he's talking about. If Seattle does that, we win." And Carroll read my post as well and was like, "HOW DARE HE! WE'LL PROVE HIM WRONG!"

You are always such a pitbull with the things you latch on to.

Who do you replace Barton with? Nick Bellore? Tanner Muse? The problem is that Barton is supposed to be in there for run support and we have no one to replace him with. Not that it really matters because our linebackers are routinely facing interior lineman which is always a losing situation.

I'm not sure why you keep talking about a 2-4-5. Our nickel was on the field for about half the plays.

There was literally no running play that wasn't successful for the Panthers last night. So, again, arguing it was a scheme issue ignores reality.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

You are always such a pitbull with the things you latch on to.

Who do you replace Barton with? Nick Bellore? Tanner Muse? The problem is that Barton is supposed to be in there for run support and we have no one to replace him with. Not that it really matters because our linebackers are routinely facing interior lineman which is always a losing situation.

I'm not sure why you keep talking about a 2-4-5. Our nickel was on the field for about half the plays.

There was literally no running play that wasn't successful for the Panthers last night. So, again, arguing it was a scheme issue ignores reality.

Okay wait a minute here..

You think I'm saying there is a fix for Barton and the shit ass defense we assembled this late into the season? No.. there's not. Outside of going back to a 4-3 we can't recruit or get anyone in free agency that can help us.. we have to march out the same doomed squad every game and just eat it.

Who do I replace Barton with? Well nobody... we're fuckin' stuck with it. Barton was supposed to be run support!? Is that a joke or is Carroll paying you off? Barton was a change of pace money linebacker meant for coverage and situational plays... not a run support linebacker.

You're not sure why I keep talking about a 2-4-5? Because Seattle was running it non-stop yesterday. I get Woods AND Harris went out... but you still got Jefferson, Mone (who has disappointed granted), Ford, and Adams... and Collier God bless the fuck but we spent a 1st rounder on the guy... so what the fuck is happening?

YAH, it is a scheme issue. You keep marching this dumbass 2-4-5 and 3 down lineman bullshit out there, and dropping into zone coverage when the Panthers are literally showing you a run front. Darnold threw for less than 125 yards (I think?) last night. Jesus they were TELLING you they were going to run and to stop them, and we couldn't. Yet we marched that same dumbass personnel out there, and THAT'S what we went into the season with!? This was our gameplay? Switch to a 3-4 with a 35 year old 'nose tackle' and expect that to win games? Take a ton of the players out of their natural position and fill it with a free agent and 31 year old DE trade... and that was your plan?

YAH, that's coaching. 100%.

AND, ANND, I resent the pitbull comment. I'm a Shark, you bitch!

 

[flyerhawk]

Okay wait a minute here..

You think I'm saying there is a fix for Barton and the shit ass defense we assembled this late into the season? No.. there's not. Outside of going back to a 4-3 we can't recruit or get anyone in free agency that can help us.. we have to march out the same doomed squad every game and just eat it.

Who do I replace Barton with? Well nobody... we're fuckin' stuck with it. Barton was supposed to be run support!? Is that a joke or is Carroll paying you off? Barton was a change of pace money linebacker meant for coverage and situational plays... not a run support linebacker.

You're not sure why I keep talking about a 2-4-5? Because Seattle was running it non-stop yesterday. I get Woods AND Harris went out... but you still got Jefferson, Mone (who has disappointed granted), Ford, and Adams... and Collier God bless the fuck but we spent a 1st rounder on the guy... so what the fuck is happening?

YAH, it is a scheme issue. You keep marching this dumbass 2-4-5 and 3 down lineman bullshit out there, and dropping into zone coverage when the Panthers are literally showing you a run front. Darnold threw for less than 125 yards (I think?) last night. Jesus they were TELLING you they were going to run and to stop them, and we couldn't. Yet we marched that same dumbass personnel out there, and THAT'S what we went into the season with!? This was our gameplay? Switch to a 3-4 with a 35 year old 'nose tackle' and expect that to win games? Take a ton of the players out of their natural position and fill it with a free agent and 31 year old DE trade... and that was your plan?

YAH, that's coaching. 100%.

I just don't believe that this defense would have been all that much better in a 4-3 than a 3-4. It would still be too small. It would still have below average players getting significant snap counts. Bruce Irvin had the 2nd most snaps of any DL player. We just don't have the players to get the job done.

If we agree that we don't have the talent, then blaming scheme doesn't make sense.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I just don't believe that this defense would have been all that much better in a 4-3 than a 3-4. It would still be too small. It would still have below average players getting significant snap counts. Bruce Irvin had the 2nd most snaps of any DL player. We just don't have the players to get the job done.

If we agree that we don't have the talent, then blaming scheme doesn't make sense.

Would've been below average for sure, nobody is arguing that. We would not be getting abused like this in the run. At least last year we made teams work for it by passing. It's like the team overcompensated themselves. And I get Seattle could only do so much last year in the draft, we focused on offense which has paid dividends clearly, but in all that you made a radical defensive scheme change with limited personnel and resources to do it? If that was Clint's idea, he should be 100% held accountable and Pete needs to be as well. You changed up the defense entirely without any moves to support your decision (Harris/Nwosu, okay... that's 2, but the 3-4 is NOT easy to run - that's not me talking, that's traditional football knowledge)....

Give me a break.

I mean let's not pretend, Seattle's D wasn't great last year. It's WORSE now, and we're LOSING to teams that we know are 100% going to run the ball, and we can't do dick about it. At all... I mean it's embarrassing. It's beyond baffling to me at this point. These aren't even good teams. We've gotten destroyed all year by teams beaten up by injuries or teams that just flat out suck. Top 3 to bottom 3 run YPC defense. I rest my case. Personnel is basically still here... it's the scheme that's changed... and that, is 100% coaching. Convince me otherwise.

 

[flyerhawk]

Would've been below average for sure, nobody is arguing that. We would not be getting abused like this in the run. At least last year we made teams work for it by passing. It's like the team overcompensated themselves. And I get Seattle could only do so much last year in the draft, we focused on offense which has paid dividends clearly, but in all that you made a radical defensive scheme change with limited personnel and resources to do it? If that was Clint's idea, he should be 100% held accountable and Pete needs to be as well. You changed up the defense entirely without any moves to support your decision (Harris/Nwosu, okay... that's 2, but the 3-4 is NOT easy to run - that's not me talking, that's traditional football knowledge)....

Give me a break.

I mean let's not pretend, Seattle's D wasn't great last year. It's WORSE now, and we're LOSING to teams that we know are 100% going to run the ball, and we can't do dick about it. At all... I mean it's embarrassing. It's beyond baffling to me at this point. These aren't even good teams. We've gotten destroyed all year by teams beaten up by injuries or teams that just flat out suck. Top 3 to bottom 3 run YPC defense. I rest my case. Personnel is basically still here... it's the scheme that's changed... and that, is 100% coaching. Convince me otherwise.

It's frustrating certainly. But I think that replacing Bobby with Barton, All being a year older, and guys like Jefferson simply not being what they once were, made the defense worse.

Again, we all knew this would be a rebuild year. We got duped into thinking we might be better. But we are who we thought we were.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

It's frustrating certainly. But I think that replacing Bobby with Barton, All being a year older, and guys like Jefferson simply not being what they once were, made the defense worse.

Again, we all knew this would be a rebuild year. We got duped into thinking we might be better. But we are who we thought we were.

Yah I hear ya on that... I get you. I still think we'd be performing at a higher level with the defense we ran last year. Carolina was literally calling 'HB SLAM' IFORM/Singleback Madden calls yesterday lol. It was getting a little ridiculous..

I think if we stuck to a 4-3 and used Harris like we did Bennett we'd have 2 more wins in the column.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yah I hear ya on that... I get you. I still think we'd be performing at a higher level with the defense we ran last year. Carolina was literally calling 'HB SLAM' IFORM/Singleback Madden calls yesterday lol. It was getting a little ridiculous..

I think if we stuck to a 4-3 and used Harris like we did Bennett we'd have 2 more wins in the column.

Maybe. Not having Harris certainly hurt yesterday.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

It could be worse.

You could have stuck with the Wee One instead of letting him be free to go to Denver.

 

[Anointed One]

It could be worse.

You could have stuck with the Wee One instead of letting him be free to go to Denver.

And then we may not of had two very good tackles to block for him this year either

 

[Judge Fudge]

So............ This is a kicker of the story. The end of the roadtrip.

So we make it to St. Pauls for the 10:30 Mri. No Biggie, only one hiccup with the Mri, got in my head and made myself Parnoid............

We leave and my Dad just wants to check in with Dr. Westerberg...............

ENT Doctors are on Lunch. So we decide to Follow suit(fat burger on Davie and????????????) and head back at 1. We do so.............

Now back let's backtrack to October. We haven't from the Doctor office since May................... My mom calls them and they tell her to make the MRI Appointment and They will let them know...................

According to the Receptionist at the his office. They didn't know the MRI was SCHULDED FOR TODAY and he is in surgery till 3 or 4 in the afternoon, this is 1:30.

So Mom calls them and they say "why didn't you tell us"? Ie October note

So it get's to be 5:00 ish and still nothing so we head for the 7:00 ferry and made it home.