Game Thread: Panthers at Seahawks, 1:25PM PST

[JMR]

I'm late to the party as I was in Philly since Thursday for America's Game (thrilling OT win for Army) and just got back last night. We plunked down at Giovannis for the 3 hours of torture on Sunday, and here are a few of my thoughts:

• I am sure much of the 21 pages of this thread are all over it, but the run defense is just pathetic. The D overall just isn't cutting it or even close. Unless the offense can put up points on virtually every possession, there's a limited chance to win a game right now with this defense.
• Geno was off and making dangerous throws, many off his back foot and/or into traffic. His season has been marvelous for sure, but he just as certainly wasn't that on Sunday. We just cannot afford to have him turn it over 2+ times/game when we can't stop anyone.
• We are unable to run the ball even a little bit. And it isn't just KW's injury because this started before he got hurt. There was a good stretch with him in there where we were running to set up the pass and passing to set up the run (true offensive balance), but that dried up somewhere between Glendale and Munich and hasn't come back. Geno needs a little help.

Not much else to say on this one. My confidence for a win was about sapped after the first quarter when the same old weaknesses had already shown up. 6-3 doesn't even seem like it happened this season. This team is not making the playoffs, and the only question to me now for this season is whether we finish with 7 or 8 wins.

Barf.

 

[Anointed One]

Listening to Dave Wyman last night - he made a comment that C. Barton probably needs to be benched... He said he felt that Bruce Irvin's rant after the game was directed, indirectly at Cody... This was Irvin's rant about guys not being able to get off their blocks to make the tackle; when they're there to make the tackle they're not making it or allowing another 4-5 yards after contacting and not they're not playing disciplined by playing the covering the right gaps at the right time...

He also talked about Barton before each play and how he's always taking stutter steps forwards and backwards before the snap... He said a few times it's caused his momentum to go away from the play and basically caused him to get to this spot late... He didn't know if that was the way he was being coached up or not but that it just didn't feel right... He mentioned Brooks has done it a times as well...

Like some of you had stated, he's not the only one to blame on defense but Wyman making this statement made me feel like i'm not losing it when watching him... Brooks definitely has had his moments as well a long w/ pretty much every player on defense at times...

With that said, it's probably safe to say that I won't have to worry about Barton next season because I highly doubt the Hawks will resign him... If they do resign him, then I'm obviously wrong in my observations of him and they like him more than I thought...

 

[flyerhawk]

Listening to Dave Wyman last night he made a comment that C. Barton probably needs to be benched... He said he felt that Bruce Irvin's rant after the game was directed indirectly at Cody... This was Irvin's rant about guys not being to get off their blocks to make the tackle, when they're there to make the tackle they're not making it or allowing another 4-5 yards after contacting and not playing disciplined by playing the right gap...

He also talked about Barton before each play and how he's always taking stutter steps forwards and backwards before the snap... He said a few times it caused his momentum to go away from the play and basically caused him to get to this spot late...

Like some of you had stated, he's not the only one to blame on defense but Wyman making this statement made me feel like i'm not losing it when watching him... Brooks definitely has had his moments as well a long w/ pretty much every player on defense at times...

With that said, it's probably safe to say that I won't have to worry about Barton next season because I highly doubt the Hawks will resign him... If they do resign him, then I'm obviously wrong in my observations of him and they like him more than I thought...

Barton is not a good player. That seems pretty clear. He's a back up level player. But he is far from the only problem.

 

[Anointed One]

Barton is not a good player. That seems pretty clear. He's a back up level player. But he is far from the only problem.

Agreed... I meant to post this in the Barton thread w/ the ESPN article that someone had posted...

 

[flyerhawk]

 

[MrS]

we dont have the players, its pretty obvious. they could not have stopped carolina from running no matter who they had out there. there was literally NOTHING they could do to stop it.

draft D draft D draft D and then draft more D

 

[flyerhawk]

we dont have the players, its pretty obvious. they could not have stopped carolina from running no matter who they had out there. there was literally NOTHING they could do to stop it.

draft D draft D draft D and then draft more D

Agreed.

If they were running wide open on us and no one was touching them then maybe scheme would be the problem. But, by far, the biggest problem we had was guys running into the scrum and simply getting 5-10 more yards after initial contact.

 

[JMR]

Doesn't it make more sense to fit a scheme to the players you have as opposed to the other way around? I mean if you're hell bent on a different scheme then continue to shape the roster to best support that, but meanwhile shouldn't you use a scheme that's a better fit for who you actually have on the team?

 

[MrS]

The only thing that makes sense to me is that they expected this to be a down year and they are getting a head start on a defensive transition and they fully plan on drafting defenders that fit the scheme.

 

[Anointed One]

we dont have the players, its pretty obvious. they could not have stopped carolina from running no matter who they had out there. there was literally NOTHING they could do to stop it.

draft D draft D draft D and then draft more D

100%! Offense is not the problem this year.... One can argue that the reason we've won 7 games is because of the offense... The reason we lost 6 games was not because of the offense outside the SF game...

Need to draft Defense...

 

[blstoker]

Listening to Dave Wyman last night - he made a comment that C. Barton probably needs to be benched... He said he felt that Bruce Irvin's rant after the game was directed, indirectly at Cody... This was Irvin's rant about guys not being able to get off their blocks to make the tackle; when they're there to make the tackle they're not making it or allowing another 4-5 yards after contacting and not they're not playing disciplined by playing the covering the right gaps at the right time...

He also talked about Barton before each play and how he's always taking stutter steps forwards and backwards before the snap... He said a few times it's caused his momentum to go away from the play and basically caused him to get to this spot late... He didn't know if that was the way he was being coached up or not but that it just didn't feel right... He mentioned Brooks has done it a times as well...

Like some of you had stated, he's not the only one to blame on defense but Wyman making this statement made me feel like i'm not losing it when watching him... Brooks definitely has had his moments as well a long w/ pretty much every player on defense at times...

With that said, it's probably safe to say that I won't have to worry about Barton next season because I highly doubt the Hawks will resign him... If they do resign him, then I'm obviously wrong in my observations of him and they like him more than I thought...

Interesting take by Irvin, since I've personally thought he's been really bad this year.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

100%! Offense is not the problem this year.... One can argue that the reason we've won 7 games is because of the offense... The reason we lost 6 games was not because of the offense outside the SF game...

Need to draft Defense...

Needs to be Carter or Anderson with the top 2 (at the moment) pick.

If Schneider really believes in a QB... fine, but the immediate picks after need to be DL, ILB, and Center. Blythe is terrible. Brooks is OKAY but is certainly not worth the 1st we spent on him, Barton sucks, and everyone on the DL isn't suited for this type of defense... and now Harris is getting injured more and more.

I want Carter, EDGE, Patterson, and Sewell.

 

[Anointed One]

Needs to be Carter or Anderson with the top 2 (at the moment) pick.

If Schneider really believes in a QB... fine, but the immediate picks after need to be DL, ILB, and Center. Blythe is terrible. Brooks is OKAY but is certainly not worth the 1st we spent on him, Barton sucks, and everyone on the DL isn't suited for this type of defense... and now Harris is getting injured more and more.

I want Carter, EDGE, Patterson, and Sewell.

The thing is, this QB draft is deep so we don't have to take Stroud or Young in order to get our QB... I still think we'd use one of our 2nd's to take one... I cannot envision Pete/John as a duo that would spend the #2 or #3 overall pick on a QB... I'd assume they would draft their DT there or trade down 4 or 5 spots to grab a defensive player while picking up 2nd rounder...

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

The thing is, this QB draft is deep so we don't have to take Stroud or Young in order to get our QB... I still think we'd use one of our 2nd's to take one... I cannot envision Pete/John as a duo that would spend the #2 or #3 overall pick on a QB... I'd assume they would draft their DT there or trade down 4 or 5 spots to grab a defensive player while picking up 2nd rounder...

Naturally I will blame you if things go wrong, Anointed..

 

[HaroldSeattle]

The thing is, this QB draft is deep so we don't have to take Stroud or Young in order to get our QB... I still think we'd use one of our 2nd's to take one... I cannot envision Pete/John as a duo that would spend the #2 or #3 overall pick on a QB... I'd assume they would draft their DT there or trade down 4 or 5 spots to grab a defensive player while picking up 2nd rounder...

The draft is deeper then usual at QB but when you go team by team at the QB position you know the demand still is greater then the supply by a wide margin. Trading down is a option if the market is strong for their pick, wouldn't risk moving down much more then 2-3 spots and then only if the return is beautiful enough to do it.
Think now folks are realizing the Geno is just a bridge QB, so this draft is the best bet to secure the future QB. I don't think it makes any sense to wait and wait to take a QB and let the cream at QB go ahead of taking one. That's a formula for failing, all those late firsts the Seahawks have had for a decade should wake folks up to the fact that when it comes to a premium position which are QB, LT, elite pass rusher you need to have at least a top 10, top 5 would be more realistic and top 3 would be better yet. Otherwise all the cream is gone and your forced to reach to fill the position and that rarely goes well. QB of course is the golden grail for teams so this draft is going produce one for the Seahawks or we might as well brace ourselves to being forced to make do at the position with lower tier types that rarely get you to the championship.
Now the DL needs help and that's a challenge and using a early top ten pick would be ideal, but when choosing between the QB of the future or taking a DL then you got to go QB, it's is THEE premium position and the odds of hitting on a top 5 DL are no better than hitting on a QB with a top 5, especially since this draft has a some talent to choose from at QB. Got to identify which QB fit the Seahawks and also have the talent then place your bet. You DO NOT wait until round 2 to take what you hope is the future at QB and hope other teams miss on identifying the QB as a top talent, especially when so many are likely to get drafted round 1, given the demand/need at QB around the league.
Folks get totally sucked in with the hype around players the media is pushing. Carter IMO is going to be a fine player, but he's not going to live up to the hype of being a top 3 pick and Anderson IMO is going to bust badly, but even if both turn out to be fine players it's still a mistake to pass on drafting the QB of the future because the Seahawks have golden opportunity to be in a position where the pool of QBs is still tier one with their pick, this opportunity likely won't come again for a good long while and the Seahawks will be forced to find a gem at QB that the rest of the league passed on. That's like trying to hit on a inside straight, the odds are against being successful and you don't want to be forced to try that when you have the ONE CHANCE to actually draft a QB with a top 3 pick and have a complete smorgasbord of QBs to choose from, top of the class.

 

[MrS]

Young is probably the closest thing to a surefire QB this draft but the dude is small and im 99% sure he goes #1

Outside of him, I don't trust any of the Qbs. Stroud is a huge risk, doesnt have a cannon arm, plays in no read offense. I dont want anything to do with him.

Levis is a boom or bust prospect, Id be ok taking him at 15 but not 2-3.

The niners have shown us you can win playing Carroll ball. Stout defense, strong run game and a QB that wont lose you the game. We won a SB with that formula.

So draft defense, resign geno if its a friendly deal and take a mid round development QB like mckee or Richardson if he falls.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Young is probably the closest thing to a surefire QB this draft but the dude is small and im 99% sure he goes #1

Outside of him, I don't trust any of the Qbs. Stroud is a huge risk, doesnt have a cannon arm, plays in no read offense. I dont want anything to do with him.

Levis is a boom or bust prospect, Id be ok taking him at 15 but not 2-3.

The niners have shown us you can win playing Carroll ball. Stout defense, strong run game and a QB that wont lose you the game. We won a SB with that formula.

So draft defense, resign geno if its a friendly deal and take a mid round development QB like mckee or Richardson if he falls.

There are about half dozen QBs who are better than any QBs in last years draft, they'll be scooped up quickly. The Seahawks no doubt are studying these candidates and can identify which have the potential to be a franchise QB and other than Young ( who I don't even want) will have their pick out of the top tier. Can't squander this one time chance they have.
49ers despite a outstanding roster have come up short yearly and every time it's because of QB play. Go back and look at the last game in the playoffs ( last few years) and tell me it wasn't the QB who caused them to lose.

 

[MrS]

You can win a SB with a mid grade QB, good luck with no defense unless mahomes is your QB.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

You can win a SB with a mid grade QB, good luck with no defense unless mahomes is your QB.

Always nice to have a good defense, course like the QB position they want the team to show them the money, only it's a bunch of defensive players who want to cash in, so the defense is always changing in composition. A franchise QB can last a couple of contracts and your set for 8-10 years at QB, can't do that with a D. As far as winning with a mid grade QB, it still needs to be the right one to make it work IMO.
It's going to take more than a single defensive player to fix the D, the QB spot could be fix with one top 3 pick. Folks ask "What if he busts?" well that goes for the other positions also, if you draft Anderson and he's a bust or Carter your in the same boat. The draft is a gamble that includes some knowledge and some luck.
I'm sure the Seahawks will spend the bulk of their draft picks on defense, but first they need to take advantage of a unique chance to fill the QB position and waiting to do that is a plan for failure.

 

[MrS]

which QB? Stroud? Levis? Richardson? None of those guys will be ready to lead a team to the superbowl in next few years.

Stroud smells like a huge bust to me, theres just nothing special about him and he has the OSU QB pedigree.

Levis and Richardson are huge risks ESPECIALLY Richardson. He should have stayed in school another year but he will probably explode at the combine, levis will too.