Great ESPN article posted today regarding the Russ/Seattle divorce

[Judge Fudge]

Honestly....

If someone ego gets hurt by us doing some due diligence on 2 prospects....


I don't want him on my team.

 

[cdumler7]

Honestly....

If someone ego gets hurt by us doing some due diligence on 2 prospects....


I don't want him on my team.

So you wouldn't have wanted Brady or Rodgers on your team? Both of them have complained about their team doing due diligence in the past and the disrespect it shows. Heck Brady at one point went to the owner and said it is either me or Jimmy G but both of us can't stay.

I mean would you be happy at your job if your boss was bringing in people to interview for your job? Throw in wasn't even trying to do it in secret? I don't think that is an ego thing. That is a "wow this is the kind of loyalty you are showing me then I'm not going to have a problem with then looking around too." I mean if anything that would be just smart to start doing homework on other job opportunities.

 

[Judge Fudge]

So you wouldn't have wanted Brady or Rodgers on your team? Both of them have complained about their team doing due diligence in the past and the disrespect it shows. Heck Brady at one point went to the owner and said it is either me or Jimmy G but both of us can't stay.

I mean would you be happy at your job if your boss was bringing in people to interview for your job? Throw in wasn't even trying to do it in secret? I don't think that is an ego thing. That is a "wow this is the kind of loyalty you are showing me then I'm not going to have a problem with then looking around too." I mean if anything that would be just smart to start doing homework on other job opportunities.

I work in a grocery store. I have always worked with people who have my job.

Never ever had an issue with any of them

 

[HaroldSeattle]

So you wouldn't have wanted Brady or Rodgers on your team? Both of them have complained about their team doing due diligence in the past and the disrespect it shows. Heck Brady at one point went to the owner and said it is either me or Jimmy G but both of us can't stay.

I mean would you be happy at your job if your boss was bringing in people to interview for your job? Throw in wasn't even trying to do it in secret? I don't think that is an ego thing. That is a "wow this is the kind of loyalty you are showing me then I'm not going to have a problem with then looking around too." I mean if anything that would be just smart to start doing homework on other job opportunities.

Teams need to plan long term and drafting a good back up is just prudent. Packers drafted Rodgers even though they had Brett Favre and they continued to find quality back up QB. That was sound strategy IMO. Why QBs like Rodgers or Brady or RW would feel threaten is kind showing some unfounded insecurity on their part and likely puts them in a bad light from management viewpoint. It would be like getting upset your company hiring you an assistant because your worried the assistant may be able to do the job better then you can and he's cheaper.

 

[cdumler7]

I work in a grocery store. I have always worked with people who have my job.

Never ever had an issue with any of them

I'm hoping you can see the differences in these situations. Still lets say they are interviewing people to actually replace you. They think they can get someone better than you even though you have been the best worker they have possibly ever had especially at the very least in your field.

I don't think it is ego to be upset about that. And I especially don't think it is wrong to then begin to question the people you work for and how much you can trust them. I would be showing as much loyalty as they are willing to show me.

 

[cdumler7]

Teams need to plan long term and drafting a good back up is just prudent. Packers drafted Rodgers even though they had Brett Favre and they continued to find quality back up QB. That was sound strategy IMO. Why QBs like Rodgers or Brady or RW would feel threaten is kind showing some unfounded insecurity on their part and likely puts them in a bad light from management viewpoint. It would be like getting upset your company hiring you an assistant because your worried the assistant may be able to do the job better then you can and he's cheaper.

I don't think it is a matter of any of them worrying about this player being better than them. It is more of a what has happened to cause any kind of concern for the future? I mean when they were doing that looking Wilson was what 28 or 29 years old? Prime of his career and still plenty of good football ahead of him. I could understand more if say this is the last couple of years of his time in the NFL. You need to start planning at that point.

I mean when they brought in Rodgers to Green Bay they thought Favre was just about done. Heck Favre went back and forth how many times during that stretch of whether to retire or not and just kept going. So that situation was a bit differen than let's say Favre in the prime of his career and the franchise going and looking at players expected to be top-10 picks.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I mean when they brought in Rodgers to Green Bay they thought Favre was just about done. Heck Favre went back and forth how many times during that stretch of whether to retire or not and just kept going. So that situation was a bit differen than let's say Favre in the prime of his career and the franchise going and looking at players expected to be top-10 picks.

Packers for years drafted QBs regardless of who the starting QB was. Often they would then flip the QB at a later date.

 

[cdumler7]

Packers for years drafted QBs regardless of who the starting QB was. Often they would then flip the QB at a later date.

I get that NFL teams do this. I'm just more commenting that I don't think it is an ego thing for a QB to be upset when a team makes that kind of decision. And the reality is to be a great QB part of that DNA is having a bit of ego anyway. I remember some of the things Manning did here in Denver. Heck my mom used to work at a restaurant that John Elway frequented and said he was one of the biggest jerks that she ever met. I still loved having him as my QB.

Personality doesn't matter to me as long as the player is winning games. Drew Lock wore thin in Denver because he's dancing on the sideline as the team is losing a bunch of games. I would rather have a QB upset about a team looking at other players at his position than a guy that doesn't care about winning or losing.

 

[Podunkparte]

Packers for years drafted QBs regardless of who the starting QB was. Often they would then flip the QB at a later date.

New England too. Matt Cassell and Ryan Mallett anyone? Maybe these elite QBs should worry less about the front office and focus on the "adversity" and "hard work" they always thank for getting them there. QB prospects still have value to front offices, including flipping to help the current QB continue to win.

 

[cdumler7]

New England too. Matt Cassell and Ryan Mallett anyone? Maybe these elite QBs should worry less about the front office and focus on the "adversity" and "hard work" they always thank for getting them there. QB prospects still have value to front offices, including flipping to help the current QB continue to win.

Matt Cassel was a 7th round pick and Ryan Mallett a 3rd round pick. That is vastly different than looking at QB's expected to be taken in the top-10 and making phone calls to teams in the top-5 about making trades involving said player.

 

[Podunkparte]

Matt Cassel was a 7th round pick and Ryan Mallett a 3rd round pick. That is vastly different than looking at QB's expected to be taken in the top-10 and making phone calls to teams in the top-5 about making trades involving said player.

I don't think it matters all that much. Your starting QB is paid to play. If he wanted to be a GM he should retire and apply. Teams should do their due diligence on everyone, and Schneider has always been open about that fact. Sorry it twists the panties of a player, but tough shit. If you're playing at the top of your game you shouldn't have to worry about it. Competition shouldn't ruffle their feathers if they're as good as thy think they are. Was Russell crying for Matt Flynn when he came in and took the job? I doubt he shed one of those crocodile tears that day.

 

[Jikkle]

I think what is most likely is that they felt their secret sauce was having a cheap good QB that could manage the offense while they grew into stars, so they could then be spendthrifts in every other position. My guess is that they were not thrilled about spending a fortune on Russ.

Given how rocky the contract extensions were I'd say they gritted their teeth and paid him.

If your philosophy is to run the ball and play great defense it's really hard to pay a QB top of the market money when all you really want is for them to hand the ball off and make a handful of plays a game.

What they want is more a top 15 kind of guy that you pay something in the 20 million dollar range which why there is so much noise with them being interested in Jimmy G since he's kind of their ideal QB. Keep the chains moving on 3rd down and not command over 30 million dollars.

The league in general is in a weird place because on the one hand having a top 5 or even top 10 QB is the surest way to ensure consistent long-term success. But once you pay a guy it becomes difficult to break through and win the ultimate prize. You might be a playoff team every season but getting over that hump to make and win a Super Bowl becomes difficult.

On the other hand the run the ball and play great defense is an almost impossible model to main any long-term success with as you need several players to maintain it. You need most of the 11 guys on defense to be above average and a couple of them great and the running game requires multiple quality backs and a good offensive line.

That's why the QB has so much value because it's only one position and it impacts so much of the game. Also QBs have long shelf lives so ultimately it's just easier to hit on one position be set for 10+ years rather than needing to constantly replace in a much shorter time span.

 

[wilwhite]

I honestly don't know what the Broncos will wind up doing. I could see winning anywhere from 9 to 13 wins.

It will depend on whether Russ was limited by Pete or by his own abilities. We will find out soon enough

If we compare Wilson to Bridgwater over the past three years, Bridgewater's QBR is about 51 and he was 16-18 (on three teams), while Wilson's is about 64 and he was 29-17. So if Wilson's about the same amount better than Bridgewater in Denver as he was in Seattle, with a very similar Broncos team to the one Bridgewater had, I give Denver three more wins based on the upgrade at QB. I think that's fair, although lots of other things can factor in.

So if this year looks similar to last year in Denver in terms of opponents and major injuries, a ten-win season won't tell us much about Wilson. If they get to 12+ games, it will look very good for Wilson; if they're under nine wins it will make Seattle look very smart to move on when they did, regardless of their own record this year.

 

[wilwhite]

WTF? haha ok who is our WR1? Little shocker it's not DK Metcalf, He is our WR2. I don't see a WR on the broncos as good as Tyler and DK. People continue to ignore who Lockett is. Denver has some good WR yes but they have a long way to go to be Lockett good. So you say WR2, QB1 and RB1 are all better than Seattle's beside WR1 and TE. Skilled positions are QBs, WRs, RBs and TE thats it ( for offense ) Tyler Lockett is the MOST under rated WR in the NFL and it's not even close. I would say the only advantage the Broncos have is QB1 because if our RB ( Penny ) could stay healthy he is a beast. always has been ....when healthy lol. Oline ranking now I say Seattles Oline this year is better than Denvers. Denver should have a VERY good defense but it wont be as good as it was last year. If you want to Say DK is the one you were talking about as a #2 I will take it but lets not just ignore everything Lockett has done just because he is small and quiet. lol I will protect the little guy.

Go look up Tyler Lockett Underrated. The Numbers are crazy. Remember Tyler didn't become a full time starter till 2018 but was a all pro first team returner before then.

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"Since the start of the 2019 season, Lockett stands out as the only receiver in the NFL with at least 70 receptions, 1,000 receiving yards, and eight touchdowns in each of the past three seasons. He's one of one. Out of the 26 seasons with such numbers collectively, superstar receivers Davante Adams and Cooper Kupp were the only others who achieved those marks twice in that same span.

Further demonstrating his remarkable efficiency, according to Pro Football Reference, Lockett produced a catch rate of at least 68 percent in all three of those seasons. Combining those impressive catch rates with his receptions, receiving yardage, and touchdown totals, only 11 other seasons matching those numbers happened in the entire league from 2019 to 2021.

Making these statistics over an extended period of time all the more remarkable, a large percentage of Lockett's production over the years has come on downfield throws, which typically have a lower hit rate. Quarterback Russell Wilson deserves some of the credit for his deep passing prowess, but over the past three years, Lockett's seven touchdown receptions of 40-plus yards ranks third in the league behind only A.J. Brown and Tyreek Hill."

“Lockett seems to get lost in the conversation despite his considerable understanding of the nuances of the position. In 2021, Lockett caught 73 passes for 1,175 yards and eight touchdowns in an offense that was always synced up, to put it kindly. Lockett also led the league with 20 receptions of 20 or more air yards for 740 yards and five of his touchdowns… Whether from the slot or outside, Lockett has become one of the game’s most proficient and technically practiced targets in the NFL. No matter who his quarterback may be.”

Kind of a homer post. Point taken about Lockett, though.

We'll see how he does with Geno/Lock....

 

[flyerhawk]

If we compare Wilson to Bridgwater over the past three years, Bridgewater's QBR is about 51 and he was 16-18 (on three teams), while Wilson's is about 64 and he was 29-17. So if Wilson's about the same amount better than Bridgewater in Denver as he was in Seattle, with a very similar Broncos team to the one Bridgewater had, I give Denver three more wins based on the upgrade at QB. I think that's fair, although lots of other things can factor in.

So if this year looks similar to last year in Denver in terms of opponents and major injuries, a ten-win season won't tell us much about Wilson. If they get to 12+ games, it will look very good for Wilson; if they're under nine wins it will make Seattle look very smart to move on when they did, regardless of their own record this year.

Wilson had his worst career QBR last year. In large part because of his injury. He was clearly not ready to come back when he did.

 

[Screamin12th]

Kind of a homer post. Point taken about Lockett, though.

We'll see how he does with Geno/Lock....

I wasn't adding the QB to this equation because thats not fair to the other players. Yes with out a doubt Denver has the Better QB, he was Seattles QB for a long time, He became a star here ( Not Denver ) we KNOW what he is capable of but this was about the WRs and other players not the QB.

Homer post or not this is Seattle's Forum not Denver's lol.
Sutton has one 1,000 yard season out of 4 and has never had more than 6 TD.

 

[wilwhite]

Wilson had his worst career QBR last year. In large part because of his injury. He was clearly not ready to come back when he did.

Yes, but he also had an unusually high QBR in 2019. 64 is also about right over his career. In any event, Denver upgrading to a "Seattle-standard" Wilson should be worth about three games, all other things being equal.

If Denver gets 13 wins or something the story will be that Carroll misused Wilson; if Denver gets 7 wins the story will be that whatever made Wilson great is gone.

I have a bemused interest in Wilson's sacks. That's the one stat where he may end up first place all-time.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Yes, but he also had an unusually high QBR in 2019. 64 is also about right over his career. In any event, Denver upgrading to a "Seattle-standard" Wilson should be worth about three games, all other things being equal.

If Denver gets 13 wins or something the story will be that Carroll misused Wilson; if Denver gets 7 wins the story will be that whatever made Wilson great is gone.

I have a bemused interest in Wilson's sacks. That's the one stat where he may end up first place all-time.

I am of the same opinion. To me it's more does Denver make the playoffs over the next couple years or not and if so is it a 1 and done? If so, that's all busted trade material. I keep hearing "BUT BRADY AND MANNING!" Yah the Bucs made a move to get Brady and the Broncos Manning and IMMEDIATELY got to Super Bowls (Brady winning his and the Broncos steamrolled to the SB before Seattle annihilated em). They later won a Super Bowl although Manning didn't play much that season and was lackluster in the postseason.

I am VEEEERY curious to see this year how Denver's "SOOOO MUCH BETTER LINE!!!!" (which face it, wasn't THAT much better than Seattle's LAST year) is going to do with a QB that was ranked 5th worst in holding the ball (in 2020) and bottom 1/3 last year (historically generally bottom 25%), who drops WAAAAY back and then tries to roll out (causing an all pro Left Tackle to visibly yell at him), and is not a comfortable pocket passer...

 

[seahawksfan234]

We will see whether the draft was good or not. They haven't played yet.

But I honestly feel that the Seahawks did really well in the draft when Pete still had inside knowledge about college players because of his time at USC.

I lost faith in this regime when they let Clowney go for nothing and then traded 2 1sts for Adams. That was when it was obvious to me that they really didn't have any sort of plan.

As someone who has consistently roasted the picks the Seahawks have made over the years, I really do think this draft will end up being special. I spend (waste) a ton of time reading/watching potential draft picks and I am normally the pessimist with the Seahawks draft picks, so it takes a lot for me to get excited over a draft and I think this one was really good. Take that however you would like.

Hard to really judge letting Clowney go for nothing. I would've liked to re-sign him to the deal he signed with the Titans, but it's not like the Seahawks were just going to trade him midseason.

In retrospect the Jamal Adams trade was terrible, and I really hope he proves me wrong that he's nothing more than a box safety, but at the time we received what we thought was a top-5 safety in the NFL and only 25 years old. At the time we gave up what we thought would be two late first rounders, but sadly everything that could go wrong with that trade did go wrong. Given the draft capital we gave up and the contract we gave Adams, it could end up being the worst trade in franchise history, but at the time it didn't look like that was the case. I'm not optimistic much will change, but perhaps they find a way to scheme to his strengths and limit his weaknesses. If the Seahawks do truly plan on running a two deep coverage and have Jamal Adams as one of those two deep safeties, I think the problems will only get worse.

 

[wilwhite]

Early returns:

Geno 79/102, 718 yds, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, 6 sacks
Russ 63/106, 743 yds, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 9 sacks