Great ESPN article posted today regarding the Russ/Seattle divorce

[flyerhawk]

We tried the pass-first offense, and it was even worse.

You are referring to the season where we went 12-4?

What frustrates me is that everyone seems to want to lay all the blame on the Seahawks for their late season failures. They ignore that our offensive line was always paper thin and once we suffered a couple of injuries on that line, which always happened, our OL turned into a turnstile. And its why we ALWAYS struggled with the Rams because Aaron Donald has owned our offensive line since he entered the league. Russell Wilson got sacked 15 times by the Rams in 2020. 15!!

I will certainly agree that Russ doesn't have the same magical escapability he had when he was younger and would turn those busted plays into big gains. But maybe not having our QB under constant duress would be a good idea.

 

[returnofjakedog]

A good article that brings all of the points of the situation together. But it doesn't have anything new or unknown in it. Anyone who closely follows the team (like most here) already knows everything stated in it.

 

[flyerhawk]

A good article that brings all of the points of the situation together. But it doesn't have anything new or unknown in it. Anyone who closely follows the team (like most here) already knows everything stated in it.

And most people have made up their minds as to who is at fault with most fans choosing the laundry over the player.

 

[Wolverine830872]

And most people have made up their minds as to who is at fault with most fans choosing the laundry over the player.

I don't think the blame can be laid at any one person's foot. There are plenty of moving parts that contributed to the divorce. Regardless, of who is to blame, I am happy with ultimate outcome: we got a lot of draft capital to rebuild now rather than continue to decline with an ever-aging QB that has his best years behind him.

 

[cdumler7]

I don't think the blame can be laid at any one person's foot. There are plenty of moving parts that contributed to the divorce. Regardless, of who is to blame, I am happy with ultimate outcome: we got a lot of draft capital to rebuild now rather than continue to decline with an ever-aging QB that has his best years behind him.

This is exactly what Colts fans said to us after Manning came to the Broncos. Saw Patriots fans do the same thing when Tom left. Lions fans last year. Most of the greats can still play at that top-10 level well into their 30's.

I do think in the end this can still be a win/win for both sides. Seahawks get to try a new window and hope they hit on their next QB and Broncos open up a window to win a Super Bowl.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Russell Wilson wasn't the one who traded a 2nd round pick for Sheldon Richardson. He wasn't the one who traded a 3rd and other stuff for Clowney. He wasn't the one who traded 2 firsts for Jamal Adams.

Your belief that Russ was leaving no matter what is just your opinion. What was clear was that he was going to leave if Pete Carroll stayed.

FTR, I could probably live with moving on with Russ if we ALSO got rid of Pete. But we didn't do that. Instead we assured mediocrity for at least 2 or 3 more years.

Seahawks have made bad trades, that's true. With drafting late and cap problems they took chances on trades that didn't work out, that is often the case for teams in their situation. The situation is different now and the Seahawks are in a situation that plays more to their strengths.

Your belief that Russ was leaving no matter what is just your opinion. What was clear was that he was going to leave if Pete Carroll stayed.

Yes my opinion is he was leaving for a team in a better situation period. The idea that he would stay if Pete left is clearly a myth from RW fans who want someone besides RW to blame for his desire for greener pastures.

Hopefully Pete brings another championship to Seattle.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Simmering tension, a 'declining player' and a public breakup: Inside Seattle's trade of Russell Wilson

I couldn't help but shake my head in agreement throughout this article. It is a great rendition of how things went down. It definitely doesn't pull its punches, and makes me all the more happy with the situation.

I don't think we had a choice but to trade Wilson.

That being said I don't completely buy that he's a declining player. On the one hand his ability to allude sacks had been getting worse, but on the other hand I don't see Russ as a guy who won't adapt.

I will say the thing that stands out to me is that quote from someone in the Seahawks front office that asked if he was trying to win or trying to win MVP. It's something that I didn't really consider in the past but giving it some thought it makes a lot of sense. I think he wants to do whatever will catapult him into that all-time great category. His complaining about the offensive line is not what a team player would do. You don't just go out there and throw the guys under the bus who are paid to keep you clean. It also shows a lack of self awareness that many of those sacks were the result of him hanging on to the ball too long or trying to make something happen when there was nothing there.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I also hate to be one of those who shout that Russ went Hollywood, but I think there is some truth to it.

You see the stuff he posts on social media and you'd think that his lifelong dream was to play for the Broncos. It's a lot of self promoting PR shit that someone is probably paid to post for him.

 

[flyerhawk]

Seahawks have made bad trades, that's true. With drafting late and cap problems they took chances on trades that didn't work out, that is often the case for teams in their situation. The situation is different now and the Seahawks are in a situation that plays more to their strengths.

And what strengths are those?

I just don't get why fans still have faith in this regime.

Yes my opinion is he was leaving for a team in a better situation period. The idea that he would stay if Pete left is clearly a myth from RW fans who want someone besides RW to blame for his desire for greener pastures.

Why is it a myth? You think the Broncos are such a superior team to the Seahawks?

Hopefully Pete brings another championship to Seattle.

So do I. I would love to eat crow and be completely wrong about Pete. I just don't see any reason to be optimistic. I guess if I decided that the problem with the Seahawks has been Russell Wilson then maybe I could be optimistic.

 

[seahawksfan234]

This is exactly what Colts fans said to us after Manning came to the Broncos. Saw Patriots fans do the same thing when Tom left. Lions fans last year. Most of the greats can still play at that top-10 level well into their 30's.

I do think in the end this can still be a win/win for both sides. Seahawks get to try a new window and hope they hit on their next QB and Broncos open up a window to win a Super Bowl.

A lot of it is fans trying to cope with losing a HOF player. It's never easy, and sometimes you just don't have any other choice.

I think Brady, Manning and Stafford are kind of different examples though. Those guys were always true pocket passer/statue QBs. A lot of Russ's game is predicated on him using his legs to get outside the pocket and make plays. As he hits his mid/late 30s, he won't be as effective at that. That all being said, you guys got a HOF QB, the Seahawks got the draft capital to rebuild and I think it'll end up working out for both sides. Only problem for you guys is that your division is so loaded right now. Honestly I think the 2022 AFC West is the strongest division I've ever seen.

Even if Russ would've re-signed with Seattle, there just wasn't enough talent on the roster to be a legitimate Superbowl contender.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I also hate to be one of those who shout that Russ went Hollywood, but I think there is some truth to it.

Yes there is some truth to that. Life changes when you get married sometimes in major ways.

 

[seahawksfan234]

And what strengths are those?

I just don't get why fans still have faith in this regime.



Why is it a myth? You think the Broncos are such a superior team to the Seahawks?



So do I. I would love to eat crow and be completely wrong about Pete. I just don't see any reason to be optimistic. I guess if I decided that the problem with the Seahawks has been Russell Wilson then maybe I could be optimistic.

I'm too hungover to quote the individual comment, but I can see why fans have faith in the regime and I'm the first person who can rattle off all the stupid draft picks the Seahawks made and the fact that Carroll's philosophy is antiquated.

IMO they had a great draft and nobody in the organization will admit it, but they're setting up well for a rebuild.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Yes there is some truth to that. Life changes when you get married sometimes in major ways.

I also think the fame and money can do that to you. I don't blame him too much tbh, it would probably happen to just about all of us as well.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

And what strengths are those?

Rebuilding with draft capitol and cap space.

Why is it a myth?

Because RW has never said that...ever...him and Pete I always felt had a warm personal relationship, but RW wants a legacy and it just didn't look promising in Seattle.

You think the Broncos are such a superior team to the Seahawks?

Arguably better over all roster, not as tight cap, the trade did hurt draft capitol though ( had nice draft cap before the trade)

 

[flyerhawk]

I don't think we had a choice but to trade Wilson.

That being said I don't completely buy that he's a declining player. On the one hand his ability to allude sacks had been getting worse, but on the other hand I don't see Russ as a guy who won't adapt.

I will say the thing that stands out to me is that quote from someone in the Seahawks front office that asked if he was trying to win or trying to win MVP. It's something that I didn't really consider in the past but giving it some thought it makes a lot of sense. I think he wants to do whatever will catapult him into that all-time great category. His complaining about the offensive line is not what a team player would do. You don't just go out there and throw the guys under the bus who are paid to keep you clean. It also shows a lack of self awareness that many of those sacks were the result of him hanging on to the ball too long or trying to make something happen when there was nothing there.

I think the relationship has been poisoned for some time.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I also think the fame and money can do that to you. I don't blame him too much tbh, it would probably happen to just about all of us as well.

Well yeah, when your a rookie ( a motivated rookie that is) your life revolves around football and making a mark, hard to sustain that through out a career especially when money starts rolling in, that's only human.

 

[flyerhawk]

Rebuilding with draft capitol and cap space.

Well that is only a strength if you think that this team will do well with the draft picks.

Because RW has never said that...ever...him and Pete I always felt had a warm personal relationship, but RW wants a legacy and it just didn't look promising in Seattle.

Well he also never said he wanted to leave. The article in the OP speaks to numerous moments of conflicts between Pete and Russ. Most of them we already knew about.

I thought the anecdote about the Atlanta game was useful. I remember that game really well and being super frustrated by it. We jumped out to a big lead and then just ate the football in the 2nd half and let them back into the game. From Russ' perspective that approach is straight up disrespectful.

Arguably better over all roster, not as tight cap, the trade did hurt draft capitol though ( had nice draft cap before the trade)

We killed ourselves with this trade from a cap perspective. IIRC, it was the 2nd largest cap hit ever in a trade behind only Wentz. Prior to that, Wilson was only a 24 million cap hit. If that is too much at the QB position for this front office then they should just retire.

 

[flyerhawk]

I'm too hungover to quote the individual comment, but I can see why fans have faith in the regime and I'm the first person who can rattle off all the stupid draft picks the Seahawks made and the fact that Carroll's philosophy is antiquated.

IMO they had a great draft and nobody in the organization will admit it, but they're setting up well for a rebuild.

We will see whether the draft was good or not. They haven't played yet.

But I honestly feel that the Seahawks did really well in the draft when Pete still had inside knowledge about college players because of his time at USC.

I lost faith in this regime when they let Clowney go for nothing and then traded 2 1sts for Adams. That was when it was obvious to me that they really didn't have any sort of plan.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Yes my opinion is he was leaving for a team in a better situation period. The idea that he would stay if Pete left is clearly a myth from RW fans who want someone besides RW to blame for his desire for greener pastures.

Hopefully Pete brings another championship to Seattle.

I find that a little hard to believe on Wilson going to a better situation. I think he wanted more control over the offense/playcalling, and obviously the big payday which Denver was more than happy to do. Now Denver's defense played better last year, but:

1) The OL Wilson is going to is not ELITE nor is it THAT much better than Seattle's last year pending health. Even PFF graded both OLs very similar. Now granted our OL is going to likely be a fuckin' dumpster fire now with giant boom/bust potential, but that wasn't last year.

2) The receiving weapons Denver has are NOT as good as ours. PERIOD. Sutton is a one year wonder, Jeudy can't seem to stay healthy.... Fant isn't great but he actually favors Wilson's preference/style 100%.

3) The run game in Denver was better than Seattle's last year but Gordon is 1 year away from 30.... and if Penny continues his performance (which I'm highly skeptical of, his big games came against absolute trash run Ds) along with Walker Seattle's run game should be on par.

4) On the coaching front, Waldron only had one year, and with Wilson's unwillingness to play to the system strengths - pocket passing with quick passes and using over the middle routes - which Wilson had numerous times last year with WIDE open check down options/crossing routes that he refused to hit on QUICKLY, it really never got a fair shake. That all said, the Broncos have a new OL coach, a new head coach, AND a new defensive coordinator.... I also believe Fangio/Ed Donatell got more out of that defense which is now arguably worse without Harris. So now that's ALL unknown.

5) Division wise he went to a hell of a lot harder one. Rams have prob. a year left before the cap just guts the team, the Cards just gave Murray that stupid ass extension who has never even won a postseason game.... and the 49ers are in a weird situation with their QB... granted the 49ers can still play defense... and now Kittle's injuries are starting to ramp up. So the NFC West has a lot of open question marks... meanwhile the AFC West appears to be dominant for the next 5+ years from the Chargers/Chiefs and even the Raiders can't be counted out.

I mean Seattle looks like they're going to suck ass this year, but had Wilson stuck around I have to believe the team would look VERY different on paper right now (at least in terms of the 22 man group).

 

[flyerhawk]

I find that a little hard to believe on Wilson going to a better situation. I think he wanted more control over the offense/playcalling, and obviously the big payday which Denver was more than happy to do. Now Denver's defense played better last year, but:

1) The OL Wilson is going to is not ELITE nor is it THAT much better than Seattle's last year pending health. Even PFF graded both OLs very similar. Now granted our OL is going to likely be a fuckin' dumpster fire now with giant boom/bust potential, but that wasn't last year.

2) The receiving weapons Denver has are NOT as good as ours. PERIOD. Sutton is a one year wonder, Jeudy can't seem to stay healthy.... Fant isn't great but he actually favors Wilson's preference/style 100%.

3) The run game in Denver was better than Seattle's last year but Gordon is 1 year away from 30.... and if Penny continues his performance (which I'm highly skeptical of, his big games came against absolute trash run Ds) along with Walker Seattle's run game should be on par.

4) On the coaching front, Waldron only had one year, and with Wilson's unwillingness to play to the system strengths - pocket passing with quick passes and using over the middle routes - which Wilson had numerous times last year with WIDE open check down options/crossing routes that he refused to hit on QUICKLY, it really never got a fair shake. That all said, the Broncos have a new OL coach, a new head coach, AND a new defensive coordinator.... I also believe Fangio/Ed Donatell got more out of that defense which is now arguably worse without Harris. So now that's ALL unknown.

5) Division wise he went to a hell of a lot harder one. Rams have prob. a year left before the cap just guts the team, the Cards just gave Murray that stupid ass extension who has never even won a postseason game.... and the 49ers are in a weird situation with their QB... granted the 49ers can still play defense... and now Kittle's injuries are starting to ramp up. So the NFC West has a lot of open question marks... meanwhile the AFC West appears to be dominant for the next 5+ years from the Chargers/Chiefs and even the Raiders can't be counted out.

I mean Seattle looks like they're going to suck ass this year, but had Wilson stuck around I have to believe the team would look VERY different on paper right now (at least in terms of the 22 man group).

More or less agree with everything you said here.