Great ESPN article posted today regarding the Russ/Seattle divorce

[Wolverine830872]

Simmering tension, a 'declining player' and a public breakup: Inside Seattle's trade of Russell Wilson

I couldn't help but shake my head in agreement throughout this article. It is a great rendition of how things went down. It definitely doesn't pull its punches, and makes me all the more happy with the situation.

 

[flyerhawk]

Simmering tension, a 'declining player' and a public breakup: Inside Seattle's trade of Russell Wilson

I couldn't help but shake my head in agreement throughout this article. It is a great rendition of how things went down. It definitely doesn't pull its punches, and makes me all the more happy with the situation.

Why does it make you more happy?

We are in the wilderness now with a soon to be 71 year old coach who continues to believe that all he needs is a good running game(which the Hawks have if Penny and Walker can stay healthy) and a great defense(which it is EXTREMELY unlikely that the Seahawks will be even close to having).

That John Schneider thought that Drew Lock was the crown jewel of the trade is down right baffling to em.

Jody Allen chose Pete over Russ. That's what it boiled down to. Clearly one had to go. So now we are going to be a 5-8 win team that will be largely irrelevant until, at the very least, we get a new coach and GM next year or the year after.

So I honestly don't get how anyone is happy about this.

 

[Wolverine830872]

Why does it make you more happy?

We are in the wilderness now with a soon to be 71 year old coach who continues to believe that all he needs is a good running game(which the Hawks have if Penny and Walker can stay healthy) and a great defense(which it is EXTREMELY unlikely that the Seahawks will be even close to having).

That John Schneider thought that Drew Lock was the crown jewel of the trade is down right baffling to em.

Jody Allen chose Pete over Russ. That's what it boiled down to. Clearly one had to go. So now we are going to be a 5-8 win team that will be largely irrelevant until, at the very least, we get a new coach and GM next year or the year after.

So I honestly don't get how anyone is happy about this.

Russ wasn't passing my eye test either these past two seasons. He has definitely lost a step, and the "Let Russ Cook" experiment was a horrible failure. Seems like the front office was just as baffled by it, and wanted to turn back to the run-first offense as that is where we've had our success. It also sheds some light on the non-public undercurrents in the locker room in that Russ was somewhat of a narcissist that worried about himself over the team. He wanted an MVP award and was willing to hurt the team's chances at success in order to get that. If we had kept Russ, I do believe he is a declining talent that does not justify the current contract numbers that he would demand. It is best to rip the bandaid off now, while he still had high draft value, and get good return in value.

You are right to say that Schneider believing Drew Lock was the guy he wanted in return is baffling, but I wonder how much stock I put into that. Was there another team that was willing to provide us with more draft capital that he passed up on in return for Lock? If so, then we got a bad deal (with the exception of Russ then blocking any other destination anyways). Whenever you trade for a new QB, you are going to say that the QB was the guy you always wanted in the first place, regardless of the merit to the claim. In the end, the team did the right thing, and stuck with Geno going into the season so I'm not too worried about the comment, especially given the fact that Schneider checked out Mahomes and Allen prior to the draft when there was no real reason for him to do so.

I'd rather be a 5-win team with Geno and draft picks than a 9-win team with an aging Russ. There are some potentially good QB's coming out in the draft and having 2 high picks in the 1st round and 2 more high picks in the 2nd round, is a great building block for us. Given what I saw from the team last year, and given the fact that we are a run-first offense, I don't see a monster downgrade (in terms of wins) between Geno and Russ.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Simmering tension, a 'declining player' and a public breakup: Inside Seattle's trade of Russell Wilson

I couldn't help but shake my head in agreement throughout this article. It is a great rendition of how things went down. It definitely doesn't pull its punches, and makes me all the more happy with the situation.

They touched on a lot points from both sides. It was just time for both sides to make a change. RW wanted a change, wanted a better roster to work with to build on his career. So Pete or no Pete, RW wasn't staying in Seatlle. The roster was lacking and lack of draft capitol and cap space meant things weren't going to get better if he stayed. Some will never accept that, but it's true.

 

[flyerhawk]

Russ wasn't passing my eye test either these past two seasons. He has definitely lost a step, and the "Let Russ Cook" experiment was a horrible failure. Seems like the front office was just as baffled by it, and wanted to turn back to the run-first offense as that is where we've had our success. It also sheds some light on the non-public undercurrents in the locker room in that Russ was somewhat of a narcissist that worried about himself over the team. He wanted an MVP award and was willing to hurt the team's chances at success in order to get that. If we had kept Russ, I do believe he is a declining talent that does not justify the current contract numbers that he would demand. It is best to rip the bandaid off now, while he still had high draft value, and get good return in value.

You are right to say that Schneider believing Drew Lock was the guy he wanted in return is baffling, but I wonder how much stock I put into that. Was there another team that was willing to provide us with more draft capital that he passed up on in return for Lock? If so, then we got a bad deal (with the exception of Russ then blocking any other destination anyways). Whenever you trade for a new QB, you are going to say that the QB was the guy you always wanted in the first place, regardless of the merit to the claim. In the end, the team did the right thing, and stuck with Geno going into the season so I'm not too worried about the comment, especially given the fact that Schneider checked out Mahomes and Allen prior to the draft when there was no real reason for him to do so.

I'd rather be a 5-win team with Geno and draft picks than a 9-win team with an aging Russ. There are some potentially good QB's coming out in the draft and having 2 high picks in the 1st round and 2 more high picks in the 2nd round, is a great building block for us. Given what I saw from the team last year, and given the fact that we are a run-first offense, I don't see a monster downgrade (in terms of wins) between Geno and Russ.

Just to be clear. Russ was a "declining" player who got hurt and played through injuries, when he probably should not have. And his season totals were 25 TDs to 6 Ints and a 7.8 y/a.

I am absolutely baffled at some of the ratonalizaing by fans. You don't see much of a downgrade between Geno and Russ? Sweet baby jeebus!

 

[flyerhawk]

They touched on a lot points from both sides. It was just time for both sides to make a change. RW wanted a change, wanted a better roster to work with to build on his career. So Pete or no Pete, RW wasn't staying in Seatlle. The roster was lacking and lack of draft capitol and cap space meant things weren't going to get better if he stayed. Some will never accept that, but it's true.

And if we turn into the Giants and win more than 6 games in the next 8 years, you still going to say that?

Russell Wilson wasn't the reason why the roster was lacking. Poor drafts and even poorer free agent signings were the reason why the roster was lacking.

The reality is that our defense has been mediocre for years but our coaching staff keeps pretending that we can succeed with a replacement level QB and this defense.

 

[Wolverine830872]

Just to be clear. Russ was a "declining" player who got hurt and played through injuries, when he probably should not have. And his season totals were 25 TDs to 6 Ints and a 7.8 y/a.

I am absolutely baffled at some of the ratonalizaing by fans. You don't see much of a downgrade between Geno and Russ? Sweet baby jeebus!

In terms of total team wins, I don't see much of a downgrade. Why? Because we are a run-first team. Last year we had an insane amount of three and outs with Russ under center. Tough to downgrade from that. Those stats that Russ put up last year were greatly padded by the last two weeks when there was nothing to play for. Two seasons ago, well before the finger injury, Russ was not great either. in 2020, we were 7-0 when he threw for under 240 yards, and he threw for 3 total picks. In games where he threw for over 240 yards, we were 5-4 with 10 total picks. I don't think he is going to be an elite-level QB in a pass-first offense. That is why I was fine with the trade, even before it happened.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Russ wasn't passing my eye test either these past two seasons.

I can't really pin point when I started noticing that RW was getting thicker and a bit slower and had become less inclined to run for yards, but I'm sure it began further back then two years ago, but at the time I thought RW would start being more of a pocket passer and his arm was soooo dang good I figured it would be fine. Unfortunately RW never got comfortable in the pocket, didn't like having big bodies flying around him with him in the middle and he started falling in love with throwing bombs every chance he had, even when it was inadvisable. Seahawks brought him new OC to work on that and had RW input on the hire, but it never did work out.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

And if we turn into the Giants and win more than 6 games in the next 8 years, you still going to say that?

Yes because I believe RW was leaving Seattle period.

 

[DHoey]

They touched on a lot points from both sides. It was just time for both sides to make a change. RW wanted a change, wanted a better roster to work with to build on his career. So Pete or no Pete, RW wasn't staying in Seatlle. The roster was lacking and lack of draft capitol and cap space meant things weren't going to get better if he stayed. Some will never accept that, but it's true.

It's 100% true.

A lot of opinion in that article too, that should be taken with a grain of salt ie the Mahomes and Brady thoughts. Russ wants to be someone he isn't IMO. He's not Brady and never will be. He WAS Mahomes, but he isn't going to turn back into that player.

What's baffling to me, is some fans are ok with 9-12 wins a year and a first round playoff exit.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Russell Wilson wasn't the reason why the roster was lacking

Well opinions vary on that. Certainly drafting late and his salary played into it. However the point is the Seahawks were boxed in and RW could see that a quick turn about (given the draft capitol and cap space) wasn't happening in the next couple of years with him on the team. He was going to move on to a better situation.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

What's baffling to me, is some fans are ok with 9-12 wins a year and a first round playoff exit.

Exactly and even that was going to be hard going forward with RW.

 

[flyerhawk]

In terms of total team wins, I don't see much of a downgrade. Why? Because we are a run-first team. Last year we had an insane amount of three and outs with Russ under center. Tough to downgrade from that. Those stats that Russ put up last year were greatly padded by the last two weeks when there was nothing to play for. Two seasons ago, well before the finger injury, Russ was not great either. in 2020, we were 7-0 when he threw for under 240 yards, and he threw for 3 total picks. In games where he threw for over 240 yards, we were 5-4 with 10 total picks. I don't think he is going to be an elite-level QB in a pass-first offense. That is why I was fine with the trade, even before it happened.

We are a run first team because that's what Carroll wants to be REGARDLESS of what the team can and can't do. Even when the running game was CLEARLY not working, he kept pounding the rock. Especially on early downs in the 1st half.

Not sure what your point about the 240 yard number is. So in 2020 we lost a game in overtime to the Cards in which the Hawks were winning by 10 with 6 minutes left in the game. In the Buffalo game the Seahawks defense gave up a TD in the first 5 drives of the Bills. You know what else happened in those 4 losses? Russ got sacked 18 times.

 

[flyerhawk]

Well opinions vary on that. Certainly drafting late and his salary played into it. However the point is the Seahawks were boxed in and RW could see that a quick turn about (given the draft capitol and cap space) wasn't happening in the next couple of years with him on the team. He was going to move on to a better situation.

Russell Wilson wasn't the one who traded a 2nd round pick for Sheldon Richardson. He wasn't the one who traded a 3rd and other stuff for Clowney. He wasn't the one who traded 2 firsts for Jamal Adams.

Your belief that Russ was leaving no matter what is just your opinion. What was clear was that he was going to leave if Pete Carroll stayed.

FTR, I could probably live with moving on with Russ if we ALSO got rid of Pete. But we didn't do that. Instead we assured mediocrity for at least 2 or 3 more years.

 

[Anointed One]

I find it ironic to hear people say that we stink when we haven't even played a down.. At least wait for the first half of the season to assess this team... We haven't even played a down yet and the sky is falling...

 

[Wolverine830872]

I can't really pin point when I started noticing that RW was getting thicker and a bit slower and had become less inclined to run for yards, but I'm sure it began further back then two years ago, but at the time I thought RW would start being more of a pocket passer and his arm was soooo dang good I figured it would be fine. Unfortunately RW never got comfortable in the pocket, didn't like having big bodies flying around him with him in the middle and he started falling in love with throwing bombs every chance he had, even when it was inadvisable. Seahawks brought him new OC to work on that and had RW input on the hire, but it never did work out.

In the article there is the anecdote about Russ having a clean pocket in a key play against the Bears, and he fiddled around too long, then tried to spin out of the pocket and took a 13-yard loss which led to a long field goal that was missed and knocked us out of the playoff hunt. While Russ had a point that his line wasn't great, a lot of his sacks taken were due to him holding onto the ball too long. The article points out that he has never been a great check-down QB and as he slows, this is going to become more and more obvious. He will continue to take too many sacks even with a better o-line.

 

[Wolverine830872]

We are a run first team because that's what Carroll wants to be REGARDLESS of what the team can and can't do. Even when the running game was CLEARLY not working, he kept pounding the rock. Especially on early downs in the 1st half.

Not sure what your point about the 240 yard number is. So in 2020 we lost a game in overtime to the Cards in which the Hawks were winning by 10 with 6 minutes left in the game. In the Buffalo game the Seahawks defense gave up a TD in the first 5 drives of the Bills. You know what else happened in those 4 losses? Russ got sacked 18 times.

We tried the pass-first offense, and it was even worse.

 

[Wolverine830872]

I find it ironic to hear people say that we stink when we haven't even played a down.. At least wait for the first half of the season to assess this team... We haven't even played a down yet and the sky is falling...

I'm looking forward to starting the season from the underdog position. Hasn't happened since Russ was a rookie. With low expectations, the sky is the limit. I look forward to seeing if this team can beat the low expectations set upon it by the "experts". I especially relish the opportunity to beat the Broncos in week 1. While I don't expect it to happen, I would love to see a close game late into the 4th. Seeing as how we get Denver's 1st and 2nd next year, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to hand them a loss.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I'm looking forward to starting the season from the underdog position. Hasn't happened since Russ was a rookie. With low expectations, the sky is the limit. I look forward to seeing if this team can beat the low expectations set upon it by the "experts". I especially relish the opportunity to beat the Broncos in week 1. While I don't expect it to happen, I would love to see a close game late into the 4th. Seeing as how we get Denver's 1st and 2nd next year, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to hand them a loss.

I do think it's refreshing to have a new beginning, but also realizing that with the QBs this season, this could be a tough season. The low expectations means ever win comes with greater joy. It would be awesome to beat the Broncos week 1, really awesome, but the odds are against that happening, but you never know....

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I find it amusing Wilson complains about the sacks, but a chunk of them are completely because of his willingness to take long shots down the field and hold onto the ball too long while also not staying inside the pocket.

I don't think Wilson chucking the ball 30-40 times a game in Denver is going to work, but that's me. Wilson was dangerous with the playaction and once teams started dropping two deep safeties in 2021, Seattle's offense went nowhere. So they fired Schotty, brought in Waldron which Wilson had a say in... but Waldron's system is also about using the middle of the field and quick short throws.... which Wilson doesn't seem to do that well at. He's routinely in the bottom half of QBs with time to throw (ranking 5th worst in 2020) and does let his OL hang out to dry at times.

I'm waiting for people to start mumbling about the Broncos OL and protection for Wilson this year as well... Course he's going to annihilate us next Monday lol. That game is going to be annoying AF to watch because I'm sure all the announcers wont shut up about it.