Bare cupboard, or poor coaching?

[DCWV4life]

Actually my praise for these classes is actually getting them to campus and in the program could really care less what they are ranked...it would help if you actually listened instead of going on the Stew defensive all the time.

 

[Mike]

DC, AGAIN I say, those singing such high praises NOW are using the same source as the ratings of the 2009 and 2010 classes, so how about a little consistency? IF those classes were misranked, QUIT using those same services to say how great THIS class is!!!!!!

Dad you missed the point entirely, he said those classes would have been as good as they were ranked, if they all would have made it to campus. But only half of them came here. So the class only turned out half as good.

Since you obviously don't know, the classes are ranked on national signing day. That doesn't mean the class will be that good if they all don't show up.

Me personally, I would rather rate the class 3 years later. No one really knows how a class will turn out till then. The coaches should have some idea if they are going to be academically ok or not.We got some good recruits in the past because others didn't want to take the on their academics.

That is where I think Stew messed up, he took to many chances with academics. If his classes would have made it here, I think it would have been a different story.

In Stews defense, I seem to remember an article I read a few years ago about how he was going to change the way we were over signing recruits from the RR era. I think that played into why our classes were getting so low. ie: if we had 20 scholarships open he would sign 20 recruits on national signing day. If 5 didn't make it then we would have 5 open scholarships and only 15 recruits. The way most schools do it is sign 30 for 20 open, then if 5 don't make it to class we would be 5 over. Then 5 scholarship's would have to be cut. That is what Stew was trying to avoid and keep his word on his scholarship promise to a recruit.

 

[WVUDAD]

Dad you missed the point entirely, he said those classes would have been as good as they were ranked, if they all would have made it to campus. But only half of them came here. So the class only turned out half as good.

Since you obviously don't know, the classes are ranked on national signing day. That doesn't mean the class will be that good if they all don't show up.

Me personally, I would rather rate the class 3 years later. No one really knows how a class will turn out till then. The coaches should have some idea if they are going to be academically ok or not.We got some good recruits in the past because others didn't want to take the on their academics.

That is where I think Stew messed up, he took to many chances with academics. If his classes would have made it here, I think it would have been a different story.

In Stews defense, I seem to remember an article I read a few years ago about how he was going to change the way we were over signing recruits from the RR era. I think that played into why our classes were getting so low. ie: if we had 20 scholarships open he would sign 20 recruits on national signing day. If 5 didn't make it then we would have 5 open scholarships and only 15 recruits. The way most schools do it is sign 30 for 20 open, then if 5 don't make it to class we would be 5 over. Then 5 scholarship's would have to be cut. That is what Stew was trying to avoid and keep his word on his scholarship promise to a recruit.

I agree Mike, that oversigning was a big issue at the time, the SEC schools are famous for signing 40 kids for 20 spots, then telling 20 kids that they are not getting the scholly they were promised. Yes, I know those rankings are based on signing day, which is my point with guys singing high praises of the current class, we do not know who will still be on the team next week, let alone next year. I come to Stewart's defense a lot, because I see that so many fans have a different standard for the slick city boy than they did for the down home country boy, and it pisses me off. Stewart was a MUCH better HEAD coach than Holgorsen, he had a better handle on the media, the organization, the politics, the "cheerleading" for lack of a better word. Holgorsen is a much better X and O guy, MAYBE a better recruiter, and seems to do better with the rich alums. I wish that 2011 had worked as planned, that Stewart would not have gone to reporters trying to keep his job. I think we would have seen a VERY special season that year with Stewart as HC, Holgorsen as OC, Casteel as DC, and the talented players that were here.

 

[bbwvfan]

First, I didn't say "career backup". I said backups who became starters. Every name I mentioned was a backup at one point during their career at WVU and went on to be a starter. You are able to name ZERO such players from the last 6 years. You proved my point without realizing it.

THAT is depth. And THAT is something we haven't had. Who did we have to replace Geno? Paul Millard... He's no Chad Johnston or Marc Bulger. You still fail to see the recruiting problem Stew caused. You refuse to. You reply with even more evidence that proves my point, but just outright refuse to see what is right in front of you.

BTW, I remember Studstill for leading WVU back from the brink of defeat against BC in 93. Somehow I'm not surprised that you'd remember him for something negative...

Did DAD provide any names for you?

Of course not...

 

[WVUDAD]

Did DAD provide any names for you?

Of course not...

can BB add anything to a conversation, or just cut, paste, and pour piss?

 

[DCWV4life]

And to prove my point further,
Stews classes were ranked higher than 2005 class as well....you think
Stews classes could hold water with the class that brought us Slaton, Mcafee, Reed Williams, Capers, Scooter Berry, Quinton Andrews, Johnny Holmes! Nate Sowers, and Zac Cooper...almost as many quality guys in that class that were in the total later class.

 

[bbwvfan]

can BB add anything to a conversation, or just cut, paste, and pour piss?

I guess I don't get it.

DAD says he's happy with 9-4. Stewart won less games with Rich's recruits than Rich did. To him, losing more games with someone else's recruits is to be applauded.

Dana won MORE games with Stewart's recruits than Stewart did. To DAD, this is a reason to say he can't coach.

The cupboard was indeed left bare. We have beaten this to death. DAD cannot provide us a list of players recruited by Stewart waiting in the wings to become the next starter, because there weren't any. It is the reason Dana had to go JUCO to find skill players. It is the reason Dana had no depth to work with until this year.

I have no idea if Dana will end up being a good HC or not. But, I want to see him succeed because his success means my favorite football team is having success. I believe Dana has made mistakes, but he has done well to work thru adversity.

When put on the spot, DAD will hide from responding by diverting attention to something else... or he fades away for awhile. Not a personal attack... just calling him out.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

Did DAD provide any names for you?

Of course not...

Geno Smith, Ivan McCartney, Tavon Austin, Steadman Bailey. Although I'm puzzled at McCartney since he never really played and Austin was #2 in receiving as a freshman. I forgot Geno was behind Brown as a freshman and didn't bother checking on Bailey.

BTW... All those guys were gone after DH's first year, a year he didn't get to recruit, Stew did. None of them had a star waiting in the wings behind them...

 

[DCWV4life]

If you have time listen to this podcast...listen around the 25:45 point...they address the depth on defense and where we have been the last couple of years. Very telling when they start talking numbers.

2014 Football Preview - WVU Athletics

 

[mad2mc]

I guess I don't get it.

DAD says he's happy with 9-4. Stewart won less games with Rich's recruits than Rich did. To him, losing more games with someone else's recruits is to be applauded.

Dana won MORE games with Stewart's recruits than Stewart did. To DAD, this is a reason to say he can't coach.

The cupboard was indeed left bare. We have beaten this to death. DAD cannot provide us a list of players recruited by Stewart waiting in the wings to become the next starter, because there weren't any. It is the reason Dana had to go JUCO to find skill players. It is the reason Dana had no depth to work with until this year.

I have no idea if Dana will end up being a good HC or not. But, I want to see him succeed because his success means my favorite football team is having success. I believe Dana has made mistakes, but he has done well to work thru adversity.

When put on the spot, DAD will hide from responding by diverting attention to something else... or he fades away for awhile. Not a personal attack... just calling him out.

Exactly why I would start the clock on Dana this year. He was already at a disadvantage when it came to recruiting. Hopefully he has found his QB for the future. For now, he has to work with what he has.

 

[bbwvfan]

Geno Smith, Ivan McCartney, Tavon Austin, Steadman Bailey. Although I'm puzzled at McCartney since he never really played and Austin was #2 in receiving as a freshman. I forgot Geno was behind Brown as a freshman and didn't bother checking on Bailey.

BTW... All those guys were gone after DH's first year, a year he didn't get to recruit, Stew did. None of them had a star waiting in the wings behind them...

I thought you asked DAD to name the backups to Geno, Stedman and Tavon? Who was recruited behind Sands? Behind Will Clarke? Alston?

 

[Mac_Bridger]

Yes, I did. To which there was no answer. I also asked him to name a single player Stew recruited that went was "waiting in the wings". There wasn't anyone recruited to step in for Geno, Tavon or Stedman.

 

[Slaton10]

I thought you asked DAD to name the backups to Geno, Stedman and Tavon? Who was recruited behind Sands? Behind Will Clarke? Alston?

Just went back and looked myself....what a telling story it is and how DANA is handed a load shizza!..

The kids Stewart recruited and who actually didnt made it campus, quit or contributed in 2009 and 2010 is what has set this program back...here you go..

2009
Logan Heastie.transfer/bust, Chris Snook Concussions/Bust,Branko Busick/Convict/Bust, Deon Long Prep School/Bust, Dominil Davenport Transfer/Bust.Jordna Weingert/Bust, Daquann Hargett/Bust, Ryan Spiker/Bust, Tevita Finau/Never Made it to Campus/Bust, Terrence Moore/Never Made it to campus/Bust either did Jonathon Scott and Jerrard Hunter...only 10 kids out of 25 put a uniform on out of that only 7 contributed.

2010 was identical!, the only impact players were Quinton Spain, Bruce Irvin and Travis Bell. 10 kids from that class either transferred or never made it including the QB's to succeed Geno. Barry Brunetti and Jeremy Johnson...11 kids out of that class never made it to campus....only 5 had any kind of impact....

2011 told a similar story...Brian Athey was the ONLY QB in the class and he transferred out...3 years of no QB behind Geno....

DAD wants to know why a guy with three 9-4 records was fired?..he couldn't recruit...or get kids on campus...Luck saw what road the program was going down...but it wasn't a road...it was train tracks

 

[WVUDAD]

Exactly why I would start the clock on Dana this year. He was already at a disadvantage when it came to recruiting. Hopefully he has found his QB for the future. For now, he has to work with what he has.

Yea, yea, those no talent bums could compete head to head with LSU under the previous coach, but now cant compete with Kansas now?????? Holgorsen is the one who cant coach kids up, he cant develope talent, he cant take that two star kid and coach him up like our previous three coaches could. The cupboard was NOT bare, Holgorsen CAN NOT coach the kids, period. As to backups, Brunetti was Smith's backup, a highly recruited kid that was compared to Pat White, he left with the coaching change, in 2010, Tavon was a Soph, and Bailey was a Freshman, so their backups had not been recruited yet. There were a bunch of kids put off by the way that Luck handled the whole situation, and many of the offensive players in the 2010 class did NOT get on campus BECAUSE the coaches that recruited them were fired, I do not get why you guys cant understand the dynamics of a coaching change.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

No Dad, Stew lost recruits BEFORE the coaching change. Slaton just broke it down for you.

2009
...only 10 kids out of 25 put a uniform on out of that only 7 contributed.

Was Stew already canned in 09? I guess so. Let's blame that on DH too.

 

[WVUDAD]

No Dad, Stew lost recruits BEFORE the coaching change. Slaton just broke it down for you.

2009
...only 10 kids out of 25 put a uniform on out of that only 7 contributed.

Was Stew already canned in 09? I guess so. Let's blame that on DH too.

I LOVE how we forgive Holgorsen's downward spiral of the program, YET started blaming Stewart in game three........ I say IF WVU loses to Kansas and there is no bowl game, he HAS to go. What do you call contributed? Does that mean scored? Does it mean made sacks? or could it mean was there at practice every day, was there at every game. I find it strange, then, that there are 35 freshmen on the 2009 roster , 25 on the 2010 roster, 45 in 2008, take a look for yourself:
Football

Or is the official WVU stats site in Raese's pocket too? You guys making excuses for Holgorsen is just like Mark Snyder when he was at Marshall, constantly blaming youth for losing, THEN Doc came in and won with the same players........

 

[Slaton10]

I LOVE how we forgive Holgorsen's downward spiral of the program, YET started blaming Stewart in game three........ I say IF WVU loses to Kansas and there is no bowl game, he HAS to go. What do you call contributed? Does that mean scored? Does it mean made sacks? or could it mean was there at practice every day, was there at every game. I find it strange, then, that there are 35 freshmen on the 2009 roster , 25 on the 2010 roster, 45 in 2008, take a look for yourself:
Football

Or is the official WVU stats site in Raese's pocket too? You guys making excuses for Holgorsen is just like Mark Snyder when he was at Marshall, constantly blaming youth for losing, THEN Doc came in and won with the same players........

You can't include walk-on's and that is exactly what you have done...and I would read those lists closely...many left after the first year...example the Robert's twins..state facts brother...not spin!

 

[WVUDAD]

I am comparing apples to apples, Slaton, # of freshmen on the roster, period, not how they got there, NO spin at all, just a pure number. In 2011 there were 26, 2012 there were 35, 2013 there were 43, In 2007 there were 38 freshmen on the roster, 2006, 45, meaning the average of freshmen on the team has been fairly constant except for the dip in 2010 and 2011. Why the hell can't you include walk ons? some pretty damn good ball players started as walkons, WITH EFFECTIVE COACHING, YOUR favorite coach started as a walkon!!!!! How about Owen Schmitt?

Walk-ons endure pain to live out dream | TribLIVE

 

[mad2mc]

Yea, yea, those no talent bums could compete head to head with LSU under the previous coach, but now cant compete with Kansas now?????? Holgorsen is the one who cant coach kids up, he cant develope talent, he cant take that two star kid and coach him up like our previous three coaches could. The cupboard was NOT bare, Holgorsen CAN NOT coach the kids, period. As to backups, Brunetti was Smith's backup, a highly recruited kid that was compared to Pat White, he left with the coaching change, in 2010, Tavon was a Soph, and Bailey was a Freshman, so their backups had not been recruited yet. There were a bunch of kids put off by the way that Luck handled the whole situation, and many of the offensive players in the 2010 class did NOT get on campus BECAUSE the coaches that recruited them were fired, I do not get why you guys cant understand the dynamics of a coaching change.

Poppy, you really don't get it. Dana already showed you what he could do we players (reference the 10-3 record, Orange Bowl victory). You're an engineer, what happens when your project funding gets cut? You do the best with what you have and attempt to provide a good product. It still isn't as good as if you had full funding.

Brunetti left after the 2010 season to be closer to his Mother. Stew was going to be the coach in 2011, even after being blown out by NCSt in the Champs Bowl. So you are not quite right on Brunetti.

I think many of us understand the dynamics of a coaching change. Only if we can get you to understand the dynamics of recruiting. Coaching change didn't affect Stew too bad. Many players stayed to play for Stew when RR left not because of Stew, but because of Pat White. I drank the kool-aide for 2 seasons. Stew was not successful because of his coaching abilities, it was because of the talent that he inherited from RR. Stew didn't do anything for the future of Mountaineer football when it came to recruiting. If you are "smart" enough to use the argument that kids left because of a "coaching change", then you should be "smart" enough to understand that if Stew did not have a complete recruiting class EVER, then as time goes on, you lose to the likes of Kansas at the end of the year because of a depleted team.

But we have all had this discussion with you. I'm starting to wonder if what BB is saying about you is true or not: Troll or a lonely man?

 

[mad2mc]

I LOVE how we forgive Holgorsen's downward spiral of the program, YET started blaming Stewart in game three........ I say IF WVU loses to Kansas and there is no bowl game, he HAS to go. What do you call contributed? Does that mean scored? Does it mean made sacks? or could it mean was there at practice every day, was there at every game. I find it strange, then, that there are 35 freshmen on the 2009 roster , 25 on the 2010 roster, 45 in 2008, take a look for yourself:
Football

Or is the official WVU stats site in Raese's pocket too? You guys making excuses for Holgorsen is just like Mark Snyder when he was at Marshall, constantly blaming youth for losing, THEN Doc came in and won with the same players........

ESPN says 27 in 2008.