2018 QB Class 10 strong

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

I get that it was just a thought.

But as i have said for a while now, money is not the issue. Kirk not being a good QB is not the issue, because he is a good QB.


The issue is, Kirk simply is NOT an exciting enough QB. He isnt what would be considered elite. And I think many fans would rather continue to chase elite, rather than settle for good. And money is just being used as the final excuse to continue to chase elite.

i think some fans like my self think when we sign kirk( it will happen) that the peices will crumble down around him because we would have tied up money to kirk and we could not get better ... when they sign kirk for 24 mill plus we are going to have to hit on more draft picks and depend on avg type players example if wr proyer balls out guess what he would want top wr pay or he will walk but we cant keep him because to much money tied in kirk we have to be careful and plan

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

i think some fans like my self think when we sign kirk( it will happen) that the peices will crumble down around him because we would have tied up money to kirk and we could not get better ... when they sign kirk for 24 mill plus we are going to have to hit on more draft picks and depend on avg type players example if wr proyer balls out guess what he would want top wr pay or he will walk but we cant keep him because to much money tied in kirk we have to be careful and plan

i really do think the wr davis pick was to back up pryor because if he balls he will get top market and leave 12-15 mill range

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

so the question i would think is .. is signing kirk for 24 mill plus is he worth losing other peices for

 

[Sharkinva]

i think some fans like my self think when we sign kirk( it will happen) that the peices will crumble down around him because we would have tied up money to kirk and we could not get better ... when they sign kirk for 24 mill plus we are going to have to hit on more draft picks and depend on avg type players example if wr proyer balls out guess what he would want top wr pay or he will walk but we cant keep him because to much money tied in kirk we have to be careful and plan

Again dude, bullshit.

Lucks deal averaged $24.5 million a year, his cap hit this year is $19.4M, And even if we gave Kirk $25M a year for the next two years, that still leaves us $30M in cap space next year, and damn near $50M in cap space in 2019.

So the Money angle, and Kirks deal making it where we wont be able to sign other players is a complete crock of shit. And in fact, giving him a deal on par with Market value is actually BETTER cap wise for the team right now and over the next few years.

 

[Sharkinva]

so the question i would think is .. is signing kirk for 24 mill plus is he worth losing other peices for

Do some research. Not to stroke my own wang, but I seriously doubt any one here aside from a few haters doubt my cap research. Kirks deal if even remotely close to market value wont do a damn thing as far as stopping us from signing players unless we find the need to do another stupid contract for some one who doesnt live up to their contract. So sure it will prevent us from doing another Haynesworth deal. But reality is, we would have to give Kirk $100M guaranteed, and then Cut him within the first three years for his deal to hurt us cap wise.

 

[gkekoa]

Well...KC counts 24 million this season? Did it cost us in FA?

 

[Breed]

Luck also had a better defense and fumbled a lot. He took more sacks which put his team in worse situations and put Luck's health at risk.

All while playing in one of the worst divisions in football.

Bullshit. The Skins defense ranked better in total points giving up 383 points/23.9 pt per game. Compared to Indy who gave up 392 total points/24.5 pt per game. The Colts defense also gave up more total yardage, rushing yards and passing yards thqan the Skins defense. Don't even trot that "historically bad" bullshit out here next. The Redskins in every way were a better team than the Colts except one. At QB.

More #fakeenews on Luck fumbling a lot.

Luck fumbled the ball 6 times last year and lost 5.
KC fumbled the ball 9 times last year ans lost 4.

Yep, he took more sacks and his health is at greater risk......that's what happens when you play on a shitty team...............and he still managed to put up more passing TDs and more total points than KC.

Luck leads the Skins to at least 2 probably 3 more wins and makes the playoffs as the Skins QB last year. KC doesn't win 6 games last year as the Colts QB.

 

[Breed]

I get that it was just a thought.

But as i have said for a while now, money is not the issue. Kirk not being a good QB is not the issue, because he is a good QB.


The issue is, Kirk simply is NOT an exciting enough QB. He isnt what would be considered elite. And I think many fans would rather continue to chase elite, rather than settle for good. And money is just being used as the final excuse to continue to chase elite.

When did excitement become part of the elite QB attribute tree? Do you know how ass backwards silly you sound with that KC isn't exciting enough for some fans bullshit. Really ass backwards silly. Kirk being exciting or not exciting enough don't have shit to do with anything. And, yeah. He's good a QB. So explain to me how that translates into Kirk wanting and deserving to be paid like he's a great QB?

 

[j_y19]

When did excitement become part of the elite QB attribute tree? Do you know how ass backwards silly you sound with that KC isn't exciting enough for some fans bullshit. Really ass backwards silly. Kirk being exciting or not exciting enough don't have shit to do with anything. And, yeah. He's good a QB. So explain to me how that translates into Kirk wanting and deserving to be paid like he's a great QB?

Actually, I do believe there is a grain of truth to this excitability factor. 2, really. First, Dan likes his arm candy. And that ain't Kirk. Second, there is the marketability factor. A revenue generator. Again, KC isn't going to excite anyone to buy jerseys or sell tickets based on his personality alone. Now if he wins a title, then of course that generates revenues.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Are people really arguing that a big deal for Kirk won't have an effect on the ability to obtain and retain players at other positions?

 

[j_y19]

Are people really arguing that a big deal for Kirk won't have an effect on the ability to obtain and retain players at other positions?

Yup. They either don't understand that the money means nothing at the end of the day. Its all funny money. Its actually cheaper for the team from a cap hit perspective to sign him to a long term deal rather than this tag crap. Everytime I see someone mention money or highest paid blah, blah, blah, I just shake my head. They clearly haven't done their homework on this subject, they just are reacting.

Or this is just their latest excuse because they don't really want KC here.

 

[gkekoa]

Bullshit. The Skins defense ranked better in total points giving up 383 points/23.9 pt per game. Compared to Indy who gave up 392 total points/24.5 pt per game. The Colts defense also gave up more total yardage, rushing yards and passing yards thqan the Skins defense. Don't even trot that "historically bad" bullshit out here next. The Redskins in every way were a better team than the Colts except one. At QB.

More #fakeenews on Luck fumbling a lot.

Luck fumbled the ball 6 times last year and lost 5.
KC fumbled the ball 9 times last year ans lost 4.

Yep, he took more sacks and his health is at greater risk......that's what happens when you play on a shitty team...............and he still managed to put up more passing TDs and more total points than KC.

Luck leads the Skins to at least 2 probably 3 more wins and makes the playoffs as the Skins QB last year. KC doesn't win 6 games last year as the Colts QB.

Call bullshit all you want. The Skins defense was unable to get off the field on 3rd down at record rates which keeps the offense off the field. There was also a 9 point difference in points allowed last season.

I will say this. LUCK did a better job taking care of the ball than he has historically.

You actually believe sacks and taking hits are all on the OL? That is sad. Watch a few Indy games or Carolina games.

You can claim whatever you want about wins. LUCK doesn't fit this system and has been highly overrated since coming into the league while his team has gotten worse in wins.

 

[Sharkinva]

Are people really arguing that a big deal for Kirk won't have an effect on the ability to obtain and retain players at other positions?

I will say this, look at the teams who have signed QBs to large contracts the past few years. Now how many of them have had to go through a roster purge or were unable to sign any free agents?? Romo's deal was the last of the great cap killers. And his deal was a remnant of the old CBA. Asa people want to compare the Luck deal, here is a little knowledge for you.

The Colts currently have $21.5M in cap space, they signed 10 free agents this off season. This includes giving Hankins a $10.5M deal.

Luck cost them $18.5 against te cap in 2016, and will cost $19.5 this year. in 2018 he will cost them $24.5... now I bring this up to point out that...

1. We have paid more in cap dollars per year for Kirk, than the Colts have for Luck over the 2016-2017 seasons.

2. If we have to tag Kirk again, eve if its the trans tag at $28M, we still would have combined payed $72M for Kirk, where as the Colts in the same span will have collectively paid $62.2M over the same three year span.

At the end of the day they are using the budget as a reason to try and justify not signing Kirk, when in fact it has and will continue to cost them more by refusing to simply give him a fair deal.

Oh yea, and that $72M figure jumps another $6.47M if we have to franchise tag him. That would be $78.48M over three years for those doing the numbers.

 

[gkekoa]

No matter how we explain it, some people refuse to see or accept it.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I will say this, look at the teams who have signed QBs to large contracts the past few years. Now how many of them have had to go through a roster purge or were unable to sign any free agents?? Romo's deal was the last of the great cap killers. And his deal was a remnant of the old CBA. Asa people want to compare the Luck deal, here is a little knowledge for you.

The Colts currently have $21.5M in cap space, they signed 10 free agents this off season. This includes giving Hankins a $10.5M deal.

Luck cost them $18.5 against te cap in 2016, and will cost $19.5 this year. in 2018 he will cost them $24.5... now I bring this up to point out that...

1. We have paid more in cap dollars per year for Kirk, than the Colts have for Luck over the 2016-2017 seasons.

2. If we have to tag Kirk again, eve if its the trans tag at $28M, we still would have combined payed $72M for Kirk, where as the Colts in the same span will have collectively paid $62.2M over the same three year span.

At the end of the day they are using the budget as a reason to try and justify not signing Kirk, when in fact it has and will continue to cost them more by refusing to simply give him a fair deal.

Oh yea, and that $72M figure jumps another $6.47M if we have to franchise tag him. That would be $78.48M over three years for those doing the numbers.

You can't argue against basic math Shark. Yes a long term deal will spread out the money but with more allotted to the QB it's mathematically impossible to say it won't have an effect on the rest of the roster. Ravens fans would disagree with your argument too by the way.

And as you know I'm on your side regarding retaining Kirk regardless of the cost. But you are wrong to say it won't have an effect.

 

[j_y19]

I will say this, look at the teams who have signed QBs to large contracts the past few years. Now how many of them have had to go through a roster purge or were unable to sign any free agents?? Romo's deal was the last of the great cap killers. And his deal was a remnant of the old CBA. Asa people want to compare the Luck deal, here is a little knowledge for you.

The Colts currently have $21.5M in cap space, they signed 10 free agents this off season. This includes giving Hankins a $10.5M deal.

Luck cost them $18.5 against te cap in 2016, and will cost $19.5 this year. in 2018 he will cost them $24.5... now I bring this up to point out that...

1. We have paid more in cap dollars per year for Kirk, than the Colts have for Luck over the 2016-2017 seasons.

2. If we have to tag Kirk again, eve if its the trans tag at $28M, we still would have combined payed $72M for Kirk, where as the Colts in the same span will have collectively paid $62.2M over the same three year span.

At the end of the day they are using the budget as a reason to try and justify not signing Kirk, when in fact it has and will continue to cost them more by refusing to simply give him a fair deal.

Oh yea, and that $72M figure jumps another $6.47M if we have to franchise tag him. That would be $78.48M over three years for those doing the numbers.

THIS. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp for some. What I also shake my head at is this notion that KC doesn't deserve to be the highest paid. The overall contact value means nothing as these contracts are all back end loaded and they never play out the term of their contracts. And might KC be the highest paid QB if he signs a long term deal? Possibly, for a nano second. Then Stafford and Carr re-de their deals and he is not. Oh BTW, do either of those guys deserve to be the highest paid QB? Because one of them will be, again for a brief moment in time. Until Ryan re does his deal next year. An so on....... Its a lazy and lame ass argument for those that can't come up with solid argument why they want KC gone other than money and he lost the Giants game......allegedly.

 

[Sharkinva]

You can't argue against basic math Shark. Yes a long term deal will spread out the money but with more allotted to the QB it's mathematically impossible to say it won't have an effect on the rest of the roster. Ravens fans would disagree with your argument too by the way.

And as you know I'm on your side regarding retaining Kirk regardless of the cost. But you are wrong to say it won't have an effect.

IM just pointing out that continuing to play this tag and wait and see game is having more of a negative effect on our cap than signing Kirk long term would. the only justifications would be

1. They really dont want to sign him long term.
2. They think he will fail in which case having to cut him WOULD negatively affect the cap more so than having him long term.

Its kind of like renting vs a mortgage. Sure when you rent, you always have the option to bolt at the end of the lease ( every year). But you are also paying 15-30% more for the same house as if you bought it in most cases.

 

[Breed]

Call bullshit all you want. The Skins defense was unable to get off the field on 3rd down at record rates which keeps the offense off the field. There was also a 9 point difference in points allowed last season.

The Colts defense gave up more rushing yards per game, passing yards per game, total yards per game and points per game than the Skins defense last year. What else needs to be said? You're wrong again.

You actually believe sacks and taking hits are all on the OL? That is sad. Watch a few Indy games or Carolina games.

Where did I say that about sacks and them being all on the OL? I didn't. I think I jumped the gun a bit there. You know, waiting on one of you cats to drop some more bullshit like The Colts have a better OL than the Skins....they don't. They don't have better RBs, WRs (though TY Hilton is a baller), TEs. defense etc. The Colts have a better QB w/o a doubt imo and w/o looking. Probably a better FG kicker and that's pretty much it.

Luck does hold the ball too long at times and takes hits because of it. Fortunately for KC he doesn't have that problem thanks to the abundance of talent he was fortunate enough to play with the last 2 years. I'd like to see what Luck could do with the players Kirk has had and vice versa.

 

[Breed]

How bout this.............................

Kirk Cousins is more Alex Smith and Sam Bradford than Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady. At times it seemed McVay and/or Gruden tried making him into a top five QB with an out of whack Run/Pass ratio. All that did though was help contribute to the Skins losing football games.

Someone said it earlier. He's a good QB. Not really really good, not great, not elite, but good. That's how he should be paid imo......as a good QB.

 

[j_y19]

How bout this.............................

Kirk Cousins is more Alex Smith and Sam Bradford than Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady. At times it seemed McVay and/or Gruden tried making him into a top five QB with an out of whack Run/Pass ratio. All that did though was help contribute to the Skins losing football games.

Someone said it earlier. He's a good QB. Not really really good, not great, not elite, but good. That's how he should be paid imo......as a good QB.

OK, I really don't have an issue with this. He is more Alex Smith than Tom Brady (I take exception with Bradford, he has done nothing in the league). How about Stafford? Is he better, around the same, or worse. Does he deserve to be paid at the top? What is the current market value for a "good" QB?