Zeke and Cowboys in trouble again

[Dude]

Trouble is good. F this perfect world BS. Respect mother nature and everything will be alright ... we are pieces of dust, maybe vermin, in the cosmic turmoil.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

interesting read on some of the negotiations for 1st round rookies.

Negotiable items
There are very few negotiable items with rookie contracts anymore. The two primary negotiating issues, particularly at the top of the draft, are the payment schedule of the signing bonus and whether salary guarantees will have offsets.

Deals are now signed at a much quicker pace than they were prior to the rookie wage scale, since contract values and signing bonuses are predetermined. The Eagles signed their entire 2018 draft class before rookie minicamps, which can be held during the first two weekends after the draft, started last year. About 90 percent of 2018's 256 draft picks had been signed when offseason workouts ended in the middle of last June.

A majority of rookies didn't sign contracts until the latter part of July, as training camp approached, before the rookie compensation system was overhauled. In 2010, no player selected in the first two rounds had signed by the Fourth of July. First-round picks holding out wasn't unusual, either. For example, 2007 first overall pick JaMarcus Russell held out for 47 days before signing with the Raiders. Rookie holdouts are largely a thing of the past.

In 2016, the Chargers and third overall pick Joey Bosa engaged in the longest contract dispute for an incoming NFL player under the rookie wage scale. Bosa was the first rookie since 2013 that didn't show up to training camp on time. He missed 31 days before signing his contract.

The Chargers and Bosa weren't disagreeing over the amount of money in his contract, because the total value was dictated by the rookie wage scale's constraints. The dispute was largely over whether the deal should contain offsets and the payment schedule of his signing bonus. The concession the Chargers made to Bosa was a better payment schedule than they typically give to players with big signing bonuses.

An offset clause allows a team to reduce the guaranteed money owed to a player when he is released by the amount of his new deal with another team. The player receives his salary from the team that released him in addition to the full salary from his new contract with another club when there isn't an offset (also known as "double dipping").

Linebacker Roquan Smith, 2018's eighth overall pick, missed the first two weeks of training camp because he and his agents objected to language where the Bears had the right to void his guarantees for an ejection or suspension from a game for violating NFL playing rules. A compromise was reached on the number of games in a suspension necessary to trigger voiding.

The voiding of contract guarantees could be a sticking point with Nick Bosa, Joey's younger brother. The 49ers have some of the NFL's broadest language for guarantees voiding. Even quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo, who briefly became the league's highest-paid player last offseason, has San Francisco's team-friendly language in his contract.

One thing that won't be a sticking point with Kyler Murray is a baseball clause. Although 2015 first overall pick Jameis Winston's rookie deal with the Buccaneers had a clause prohibiting him from playing baseball, that type of contract language is no longer permissible.

Large signing bonuses in NFL contracts aren't typically paid in one lump sum. This is a long accepted practice in the NFL. Signing bonuses for top draft picks are usually paid in two to four installments. For example, Mayfield received $14.2 million of his $21,849,440 signing bonus from the Browns within 30 days of signing his contract. The remaining $7,649,440 was paid this past Jan. 31.

The Raiders customarily have paid the entire signing bonus for first-round picks by the middle of the player's rookie season. It might make sense for the agents of Oakland's three first-round picks to push for significant deferrals until the Raiders' relocation to Las Vegas in 2020. California has the nation's largest state income tax at 13.3 percent. Nevada doesn't have a state income tax.

Payment of the entire signing bonus before the end of a player's rookie season can depend on whether his contract contains offsets. A team generally receives a more favorable signing bonus payment schedule with a significant amount deferred until early in the next calendar year when there aren't any offsets.

Agents have essentially lost the battle on offsets. Teams with early first-round picks in 2013 were adamant that contracts contain offsets after largely conceding the issue the previous year. Nearly every team besides the Jaguars and the Rams, who didn't have a first-round pick this year, require offsets with salary guarantees for draft picks, including those selected in the top 10. As a compromise, most teams structure deals containing minimum base salaries in the final three years with the remainder of a player's salary in annual fully guaranteed third or fifth day of training camp roster bonuses for top-10 picks.

A quarterback has the best chance of extracting a concession on offsets than players at other positions. Mitchell Trubisky, the second overall pick in 2017, signed a deal with the Bears where his $465,000 2017 base salary and training camp roster bonuses in 2018 through 2020, which contain most of the money in the last three years of his contract, don't have offsets. All of the other Bears first-round picks signed under the rookie wage scale, which include 2015 seventh overall pick Kevin White and 2016 ninth overall pick Leonard Floyd, have offsets.

It will be interesting to see whether sixth overall pick Daniel Jones can get treated by the Giants in a similar manner as Trubisky was by the Bears. Saquon Barkley, who was selected second overall last year by the Giants, has offsets.

The entire contracts of the first 22 picks of the first round were fully guaranteed in 2018. The deals for the final 10 picks of the first round were guaranteed for the first three years. A decreasing portion of the fourth-year base salary has been guaranteed as the picks progress. Ninety-five percent of 2018 23rd overall pick Isaiah Wynn's fourth-year salary in 2021 is fully guaranteed, while 20 percent of 2018 32nd overall pick Lamar Jackson's is fully guaranteed.

 

[Manster7588]

Trouble is good. F this perfect world BS. Respect mother nature and everything will be alright ... we are pieces of dust, maybe vermin, in the cosmic turmoil.

Now don't go getting all philosophical on us

 

[Dude]

Now don't go getting all philosophical on us

Whale you know, gotta keep selling whatever.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

So it sounds like the agent does get paid for the rookie salaried contract. Just a lesser percentage than normal contracts.

Agent fee discussion


With this ease of negotiation, players and their advisors are negotiating fees downward before the agents negotiate their contracts. In talking to several top agents, it is clear that few, if any, top picks are paying the maximum 3% due to: 1) the lack of negotiation required; and 2) the downward pressure of the marketplace.



One top pick switched to an agent who told the player, “Pay me whatever you think is fair.” And, in the ultimate example of a changed environment, Ereck Flowers, the ninth pick in the draft, is negotiating with the Giants by himself. Were an agent charging Flowers the maximum 3% allowable fee on his predetermined fully guaranteed $14.4 million deal, that fee would be $432,000.

 

[Manster7588]

I want to go to the combine and tell every player for $100 I can save you put more money in you pocket.


Answer don't hire a lawyer, just sit back and let players around you sign deals and slide right in. Maybe QBs need an agent but that is even a stretch.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

The Fine Print of NFL Rookie Contracts

Lamar Jackson’s Decision to Not Hire an Agent Could Blaze a Trail

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

It says the agent doesn't get paid for collectively bargained benefits. The 5th year option IS Collectively Bargained

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw1dV-zCinUOJakgwaGxX4C0&cshid=1564894758928

Where does it say that because it doesn’t say that in what you posted. I don’t have time to read over a 45 page legal document

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

The Fine Print of NFL Rookie Contracts

Lamar Jackson’s Decision to Not Hire an Agent Could Blaze a Trail

Give me the gist. I only got to sentence two where it said rookies are signing their 4 YEAR CONTRACTS

 

[Manster7588]

Where does it say that because it doesn’t say that in what you posted. I don’t have time to read over a 45 page legal document

Page 12, Section 4, para B.3

By the way I cut and pasted directly from that LEGAL document.


I'll wait for you to say you were wrong.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Give me the gist. I only got to sentence two where it said rookies are signing their 4 YEAR CONTRACTS

All rookies have 4 year contracts (for the rookie pool) which is the only part the agent is allowed to deal with. Then 1st rounders have the 5th year added

Bottom line is the rookie contracts themselves are pretty cut & dry. No need for an agent. but when bonuses get paid & now teams are coming up with way to possibly void guaranteed money is where the agents come in. In short the pay is pretty much set in stone. when they get paid & how much the team might try to take away some of that money is where you might need an agent.

What lamar Jackson did was hire a lawyer to look over the legal documents but cut out the agent & dealt with the team himself.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Page 12, Section 4, para B.3

By the way I cut and pasted directly from that LEGAL document.


I'll wait for you to say you were wrong.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Here it is @Manster7588 and @Schmoopy1000

1.(1) The maximum fee which may be charged or collected by a Contract Advisor shall be three percent (3%) of the “compensation” (as defined within this Section) .
So the agent only gets paid up to 3% of what is called "compensation"

2. Compensation is defined as: As used in this Section 4(B), the term “compensation” shall be deemed to include only salaries, signing bonuses, reporting bonuses, roster bonuses, Practice Squad salary in excess of the minimum Practice Squad salary specified in Article 33 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, and any performance incentives earned by the player during the term of the contract (including any option year)

Agents get paid for what is defined as compensation. Compensation includes any option year.

 

[Manster7588]

All rookies have 4 year contracts (for the rookie pool) which is the only part the agent is allowed to deal with. Then 1st rounders have the 5th year added

Bottom line is the rookie contracts themselves are pretty cut & dry. No need for an agent. but when bonuses get paid & now teams are coming up with way to possibly void guaranteed money is where the agents come in. In short the pay is pretty much set in stone. when they get paid & how much the team might try to take away some of that money is where you might need an agent.

What lamar Jackson did was hire a lawyer to look over the legal documents but cut out the agent & dealt with the team himself.

I think that's the 737th time this has been explained to him.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Page 12, Section 4, para B.3

By the way I cut and pasted directly from that LEGAL document.


I'll wait for you to say you were wrong.

Hate to break it to you but thats what I just posted. It says Agents get paid for anything classified as "compensation".

Compensation is defined as: As used in this Section 4(B), the term “compensation” shall be deemed to include only salaries, signing bonuses, reporting bonuses, roster bonuses, Practice Squad salary in excess of the minimum Practice Squad salary specified in Article 33 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, and any performance incentives earned by the player during the term of the contract (including any option year)

So you can apologize to me. It says agents get paid for compensation. Then it says compensation is defined as "earned by the player during the term of the contract (including any option year)"

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

I think that's the 737th time this has been explained to him.

The only problem is I told you guys 738 times that an option year doesnt make it a 5 year contract. Thats what super agents are telling you too but you refuse to accept it. And it doesnt say they have a 5th year added. It says they have a 5th year OPTION added. Option means you can keep it at its original 4 years or later change it to 5. Doesnt mean its a 5 year contract. It means its a 4 year contract with the OPTION to make it 5.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Here it is @Manster7588 and @Schmoopy1000

1.(1) The maximum fee which may be charged or collected by a Contract Advisor shall be three percent (3%) of the “compensation” (as defined within this Section) .
So the agent only gets paid up to 3% of what is called "compensation"

2. Compensation is defined as: As used in this Section 4(B), the term “compensation” shall be deemed to include only salaries, signing bonuses, reporting bonuses, roster bonuses, Practice Squad salary in excess of the minimum Practice Squad salary specified in Article 33 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, and any performance incentives earned by the player during the term of the contract (including any option year)

Agents get paid for what is defined as compensation. Compensation includes any option year.

oh no. Just when I thought we were turning a corner.
you left out the rest of it.

negotiated by the Contract Advisor. For example, and without limitation,
the term compensation shall not include any “honor” incentive bonuses (e.g., ALL PRO, PRO
BOWL, Rookie of the Year), or any collectively bargained benefits or other payments provided
for in the player’s individual contract.

so yes in a normal contract that the agent provides an option year (like Foles) the Agent would get paid.
A CBA 5th year option. Doesnt look like it.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

The only problem is I told you guys 738 times that an option year doesnt make it a 5 year contract. Thats what super agents are telling you too but you refuse to accept it. And it doesnt say they have a 5th year added. It says they have a 5th year OPTION added. Option means you can keep it at its original 4 years or later change it to 5. Doesnt mean its a 5 year contract. It means its a 4 year contract with the OPTION to make it 5.

option year means the team can decline (nullify) that year if they wish.
The player can not. Contracts are contracts bud. the rules of a contract doesnt change. not even for the NFL.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

oh no. Just when I thought we were turning a corner.
you left out the rest of it.

negotiated by the Contract Advisor. For example, and without limitation,
the term compensation shall not include any “honor” incentive bonuses (e.g., ALL PRO, PRO
BOWL, Rookie of the Year), or any collectively bargained benefits or other payments provided
for in the player’s individual contract.

so yes in a normal contract that the agent provides an option year (like Foles) the Agent would get paid.
A CBA 5th year option. Doesnt look like it.

I dont think so and I didnt see that part. Let me look at it but I dont know if CBA benefits is compensation.

 

[Manster7588]

Here it is @Manster7588 and @Schmoopy1000

1.(1) The maximum fee which may be charged or collected by a Contract Advisor shall be three percent (3%) of the “compensation” (as defined within this Section) .
So the agent only gets paid up to 3% of what is called "compensation"

2. Compensation is defined as: As used in this Section 4(B), the term “compensation” shall be deemed to include only salaries, signing bonuses, reporting bonuses, roster bonuses, Practice Squad salary in excess of the minimum Practice Squad salary specified in Article 33 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, and any performance incentives earned by the player during the term of the contract (including any option year)

Agents get paid for what is defined as compensation. Compensation includes any option year.

You either don't comprehend or your refusing to read the full paragraph.

Agents cannot be compensated for any thing collectively Bargained. The 5th year option is not negotiated as it is I fact set per the CBA, therefore no agent compensation.

Come on use that degree of yours.