Zach Greinke HOF material?

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

please you cant put Rivera and Greinke in the same sentence. Rivera is in his own class all by himself.

I know this will ruffle feathers but I just don't think he merits the praise he gets

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

I think the guy that helped him would take exception to the "Most Brazen" title.

Good point

 

[navamind]

I know this will ruffle feathers but I just don't think he merits the praise he gets

I think relievers in general are overrated, especially today's relievers. They throw fewer innings than relievers decades ago. For reference, there were 49 relief pitchers from 2010-2018 with 80+ innings pitched. From 2000-2009, there were 173. From 1990-1999, there were 254 seasons with 80+ innings logged. 102 of those had 90+ innings and 34 of them had 100+ innings.

IMO, Rivera's 1996 season was his best season. He had a fantastic 2.09 ERA, but he also had 107.2 innings pitched in only 61 appearances and he logged 2+ innings in 35 of those appearances. He had 8 appearances where he threw 3+ innings. Keith Foulke's 1999 season was also pretty spectacular. He pitched 2+ innings in 32 of his 67 appearances and logged in 105.1 innings with a 2.22 ERA.

Josh Hader's one of my favorite relievers in today's game because he constantly goes out there for 2+ innings. He's thrown 2+ innings in 12 of his 41 appearances and he had 23 in 55 appearances last year.

 

[navamind]

the only pitchers ahead of Greinke in WAR since 2007 (when he returned to the rotation) are Verlander, Kershaw and Scherzer (two probable HOFers and a slam dunk HOFer). Greinke's been pretty durable and dominant (2809 IP, 125 ERA+) and he's still pitching at a very high level (5th in NL in ERA+ and 2nd in IP).

 

[Pure Steel]

I know this will ruffle feathers but I just don't think he merits the praise he gets

Agree, his postseason numbers against the best are overrated.....let up a ton of homers, high WHIP & ERA.....

 

[Mebert]

I think if he stopped pitching today he would be fringe, but would probably get in. I think in 2-3 years there will not be any real doubt about him getting in. The biggest negative I hear about him is that he is a dick, but it not the Hall of Personality.

 

[Rock Strongo]

35 with at least 2 more years under contract. Not showing signs of slowing down yet

197-122 should go over 200 this year If he plays 3 years, he should go over 250 wins

ERA 3.36 He has been below that for the last 3 years

2563 SO If he pitchers 3 more years a lock for 3000 k

1 Cy Young



Have to say yes.

250 is the new 300, and i can see him getting in. he has a cy, could have 2 (2015). 200 inning horse. times running out tho, hes pushing 36.

 

[navamind]

250 is the new 300, and i can see him getting in. he has a cy, could have 2 (2015). 200 inning horse. times running out tho, hes pushing 36.

Yeah, if Verlander doesn't make it to 300 I don't think anyone will anytime soon. There's 25 pitchers with 100+ wins and Bum's the only one under 30.

 

[Chewbaccer]

Bumgarner is an interesting case to me. His postseason numbers are better than Jack Morris’s

 

[navamind]

Bumgarner is an interesting case to me. His postseason numbers are better than Jack Morris’s

Much better postseason resume and superior overall stats (granted has fewer than 50% of Jack's innings). The missed time in 2017-2018 hurts Bum and while he has been closer to being dominant than Morris was, Bum's only had a few seasons where you could say he was one of the best pitchers in the NL IMO.

 

[Sportsguy9695]

I know this will ruffle feathers but I just don't think he merits the praise he gets

R u kidding me!! When he came in game in and game out it was an automatic 123 inning. The batters knew what was coming and they still couldn’t hit it

 

[Chewbaccer]

R u kidding me!! When he came in game in and game out it was an automatic 123 inning. The batters knew what was coming and they still couldn’t hit it

And he was still a closer getting around 70 innings per year. Starters are far more valuable

 

[navamind]

R u kidding me!! When he came in game in and game out it was an automatic 123 inning. The batters knew what was coming and they still couldn’t hit it

Yeah... and he only threw 70 innings. I'll take the ace starting pitcher over the shutdown closer 100% of the time.

 

[navamind]

Would you rather have a guy like Kershaw or Halladay that's capable of pitching 7-8 shutout innings, or the guy who's capable of maybe giving you 2 shutout innings?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Bumgarner is an interesting case to me. His postseason numbers are better than Jack Morris’s

Bumgarner is the pitching version of Roger Maris(except Maris was better), they have ONE special feature that is HOF worthy, but their overall is not even close to HOF...

Bummy had that one play-off stretch

Maris had the 61 HRs...

 

[richig07]

I personally dont think he is hot material. I think he is right on the outside coming up just short. would you put him in the same conversation as Roger Clemens. I wouldnt end of story

Huh?

That's like saying that an NFL QB can't be a hall of famer because he doesn't measure up to Brady or Montana.

 

[richig07]

R u kidding me!! When he came in game in and game out it was an automatic 123 inning. The batters knew what was coming and they still couldn’t hit it

The best closer of all-time, under no circumstances, measures up to any one of the top 100 starting pitchers of all-time.

 

[richig07]

I think if he stopped pitching today he would be fringe, but would probably get in. I think in 2-3 years there will not be any real doubt about him getting in. The biggest negative I hear about him is that he is a dick, but it not the Hall of Personality.

Yeah, I mean... if we're pulling all the assholes out of the hall of fame? You'd be trimming a noticeable portion of the all-time greats. Ty Cobb would be sent to baseball hell. lol

 

[VikingFan2k2]

Yeah, I mean... if we're pulling all the assholes out of the hall of fame? You'd be trimming a noticeable portion of the all-time greats. Ty Cobb would be sent to baseball hell. lol

Babe Ruth probably would join him there. Plenty of total dickheads are in the HOF.

 

[Chewbaccer]

Yeah, I mean... if we're pulling all the assholes out of the hall of fame? You'd be trimming a noticeable portion of the all-time greats. Ty Cobb would be sent to baseball hell. lol

Most of the stories about Ty Cobb were fabricated or altered by a jaded journalist. He wasn't a saint, but he wasn't near the asshole people tend to think he was.