Yeah I am officially done with fighting in the NHL

[IPostedWhat]

Maybe you two should drop the gloves!

 

[Darkstone42]

I disagree. If fighting served no purpose at all, then it would not exist in the NHL, and 98% of players would not be in support of it.

Why would the vast majority of players be in favor of something that serves no purpose? That doesn't make any sense.

They think it "shifts momentum" and "polices the game." It doesn't. It's a false perception held to by "purists." Like the sacrifice bunt in baseball. It feels like you're getting somewhere, but you're really not.

And I was talking about tangible, gameplay-related purposes. Winning the puck, advancing the puck, preventing or scoring goals. Those are real events, measurable events. And that was the context of my post. I thought I had made that abundantly clear.

I'm not of the mind that if you cannot quantify something that it doesn't exist, but there isn't even a qualitative trend associated with fighting in terms of serving a real in-game purpose. It doesn't do anything real.

 

[IPostedWhat]

Rob Ray, a former N.H.L. enforcer, knows well the signs of concussion.

“Even on nights you walk away from fights, you’re scrambly and get headaches,” said Ray, who had 288 fights in a 15-year career. “I can remember the night Stu Grimson and I got in a fight in Anaheim. We both walked away from it thinking we did well, but he missed time. And the next day in warm-ups, I couldn’t turn left; I’d always fall down.”

Ray said that enforcers did not report their concussions because “they know they’re too easy to replace.”

Yet Ray, who said he sustained 10 to 12 concussions and still has days when he loses track of what he’s doing, said it would be “a big mistake” to outlaw fighting.

“You need to have that fear: If I hit someone wrong, someone’s going to come after me,” he said. “Without it, you’d have far more head shots and hits from behind.”

Ray’s belief in the effectiveness of fighting as a deterrent is widespread among the hockey community. Yet despite the threat of a retributive fight, taking aim at injured players persists.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/sports/hockey/03hockey.html?_r=0

 

[Darkstone42]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/sports/hockey/03hockey.html?_r=0

That's a quote from a guy justifying what he did, defending his contributions and purpose in his profession. That's not evidence in support of fighting.

 

[IPostedWhat]

They think it "shifts momentum" and "polices the game." It doesn't.

Where is the scientific study that proved this, and why haven't NHL players caught on yet?

I may not be able to show scientific proof that correlates fighting with momentum, but I have seen plenty of games where a team that looked flat and out of the game came back to win after a major fight took place.

The power of the mind is a magical thing. Sometimes all you need is a spark, and you can conquer the World.

 

[IPostedWhat]

That's a quote from a guy justifying what he did, defending his contributions and purpose in his profession. That's not evidence in support of fighting.

Okay, then show me evidence that removing fighting from the game will reduce injuries and take away cheap shots.

 

[Peter Gozintite]

would you guys just fight already?

 

[Darkstone42]

Where is the scientific study that proved this, and why haven't NHL players caught on yet?

I may not be able to show scientific proof that correlates fighting with momentum, but I have seen plenty of games where a team that looked flat and out of the game came back to win after a major fight took place.

The power of the mind is a magical thing. Sometimes all you need is a spark, and you can conquer the World.

I've seen the team that loses the fight get "momentum," too, just as often. All the evidence is anecdotal. I played for a team who fought all the time. We started losing worse after one of our guys dropped the gloves. It was stupid.

Okay, then show me evidence that removing fighting from the game will reduce injuries and take away cheap shots.

It has to be coupled with stricter checking laws.

The example of rugby has been brought up. I played for four years in college, and now I'm playing for a union team. Tackle laws are very strict in rugby. Primary contact must be above the knees and below the shoulders, and the tackler must wrap up. Failure to abide by these conditions, even in some slight way, accidentally, and not even in a particularly vicious manner results in a yellow card, which is a 15-minute trip to the sin bin. Do it again, and you've got a red card and an ejection, and a suspension will be considered. In both cases, your team plays a man down. If you get red carded at the 20-minute mark of the first half, your team plays the final 60 minutes a man short. You think many guys take the risk of a cheap shot in rugby very often? No, they hit between the shoulders and the knees and wrap up. And rugby is largely a pretty safe game, all things considered, as a result.

 

[IPostedWhat]

I've seen the team that loses the fight get "momentum," too, just as often. All the evidence is anecdotal. I played for a team who fought all the time. We started losing worse after one of our guys dropped the gloves. It was stupid.

It has to be coupled with stricter checking laws.

The example of rugby has been brought up. I played for four years in college, and now I'm playing for a union team. Tackle laws are very strict in rugby. Primary contact must be above the knees and below the shoulders, and the tackler must wrap up. Failure to abide by these conditions, even in some slight way, accidentally, and not even in a particularly vicious manner results in a yellow card, which is a 15-minute trip to the sin bin. Do it again, and you've got a red card and an ejection, and a suspension will be considered. In both cases, your team plays a man down. If you get red carded at the 20-minute mark of the first half, your team plays the final 60 minutes a man short. You think many guys take the risk of a cheap shot in rugby very often? No, they hit between the shoulders and the knees and wrap up. And rugby is largely a pretty safe game, all things considered, as a result.

It doesn't matter what anyone believes except for the players on the ice. If they honestly believe that fighting gives them an extra boost, then who am I to say they are stupid or lying? People believe in a lot of things that can't be proven, doesn't mean you can just dismiss it outright.

Hockey is a very fast sport, and that that makes it great and not so great. When you have players moving that fast, you don't have much time to think or change direction. Not too mention you don't know what the other player is going to do at that same moment. If you go for a clean hit, but the player suddenly lowers his body at that exact moment, well now you have a hit to the head instead of a clean body check.

And how do you know if it was intentional or not? A player could say it was an accident when he really meant to injure all along. How do you make that determination if he's real sincere or not?

While I agree that fighting should be reduced, I don't agree it serves no purpose, or should be eliminated from the sport altogether. I'm just saying that injuries from players due to fighting make up a small percentage of all injures sustained by players over a Season, but some people still think that removing fighting is some miracle cure for the sport.

I agree with 43 from earlier in the thread, that if you want to reduce fighting, you need to first regulate and better control the cheap shots and dirty antics players pull on the ice. The instigators and the agitators are worse than the enforcers.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

The instigators and the agitators are worse than the enforcers.

IDK out of all the goons I like the agitators the best. The agitators give the Doobster a case of teh lulz at times

 

[ChicagoIrish]

IDK out of all the goons I like the agitators the best. The agitators give the Doobster a case of teh lulz at times

Dave Bolland use to get under Vancouvers skin all the time. I think Kessler named Bolland "the rat"

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Dave Bolland use to get under Vancouvers skin all the time. I think Kessler named Bolland "the rat"

I was a big fan of Jarkko Ruutu,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnSYbbmXSH8]Sean Avery vs Jarkko Ruutu - Ruutu grabs Avery's stick - YouTube

 

[ChicagoIrish]

I was a big fan of Jarkko Ruutu,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnSYbbmXSH8]Sean Avery vs Jarkko Ruutu - Ruutu grabs Avery's stick - YouTube

Lol, great video. Can't stand Avery

 

[IPostedWhat]

Like watching a beautiful sunset:

Sometimes fighting even leads to love:

 

[ChicagoIrish]

Like watching a beautiful sunset:

Sometimes fighting even leads to love:

Haha, that first one is great.

 

[IPostedWhat]

The connection between fighting in hockey and CTE is foggy at best. BostonUniversity’s Robert A. Stern, a neuropsychologist, warned against “knee-jerk policy changes” based on the current, inconclusive data. It’s becoming clear that repeated blows to the head is a risk factor for CTE, yet fights only account for 8-10% of concussions in the NHL. What that means is that 90% or more of the concussions suffered by hockey players are due to reasons other than fighting. Cheap shots, pucks to the face, hits against the boards, you name it. When the NHL eliminates fighting and only sees a negligible drop in concussions, what happens next? By eliminating fights and essentially eliminating the role of the “enforcer”, you’re taking away the self-policing nature of the game and opening the door for more headhunters, like Raffi Torres, to tee off on the league’s superstars.

Fights are the least of the league’s concerns. Fighters have the ability to protect themselves and choose when to drop the gloves or when to skate away. Players like Marc Savard and Sidney Crosby, concussion victims who never saw the hits coming, don’t have that luxury. If you eliminate fighting, you have to eliminate hits, right? Hits are inherently more dangerous and result in many, many more concussions than fights do. Take Thornton for example; it took 127 career fights before he sustained his first concussion.

With the exception of Thornton, there is not a single player in the NHL currently concussed from the result of a fight. Fighting isn’t the issue and Thornton’s injury was the exception, not the rule. Fighters fight, that’s what they get paid to do. Finesse skaters like Savard, Landeskog or Crosby don’t. Admit it or not, the enforcers police the game and serve a purpose. Until Gasper or whoever else can come up with concrete evidence showing that fighting is the problem in the concussion-laden NHL, I refuse to call for an end to the fist-throwing. Like it or not, the enforcers are the ones who choose to sustain the brain damage. I know that sounds harsh, but it’s the truth.

LET ?EM GO! ? Fighting Belongs in the NHL | Pro Sports News Nation

Brandon Prust not only believes fighting belongs in hockey — he thinks the game likely would be more dangerous without it. “More guys would get hurt,” Prust said in the Rangers locker room at First Niagara Center before Saturday night's game against the Sabres. “You’d have people running around, going after top players. There have to be consequences for going after a (Marian) Gaborik or a (Brad) Richards.” Captain Ryan Callahan believes fighting is linked to hockey’s identity, saying it's “a huge part of the game” and “a way to police each other.”

NY Rangers toughman Brandon Prust believes fighting belongs in NHL - NY Daily News

 

[SLY]

I guess the big anti-fighting argument a lot of us have is that it unnecessarily puts players at extra risk.

We just want something which is already illegal to carry heftier consequences to make it less common to the point of being a rare event.

While I will never be a part of the "anti-fighting movement", I could definitely get behind making the consequences more severe to at least make all fights, for lack of a better phrase, worth it. The staged fights or meaningless jersey tug wars that get initiated after the puck drops for shits and giggles needs to go.

And while fighting is not a part of the actual game, it is a crucial element to the culture, which means a lot. And please people, stop comparing other sports and how they do not have fighting/players policing themselves like hockey, not every sport needs to be the same. I watch hockey because it's not like those other shitty sports.

With all that said, good luck to all of your teams, and may they all not prosper one bit. GO BRUINS!

 

[The Q stache]

I'm not gonna go out and argue that fighting needs to be taken out of the game because these are grown men making their own choices. That being said fighting in hockey is pretty pointless.

 

[LALakersboy24.7]

I grew up watching Hockey fights it's part of the game. Taking out the fights & you kill the game freak accidents happen

 

[SLY]

Well I wouldn't say it would kill the game. But it would be a major blow to the casual fan and just the overall culture of hockey in North America.