Yeah I am officially done with fighting in the NHL

[IPostedWhat]

Fine take hitting out of the game, I'm fine with that, are you? Do you believe hitting is really less essential and more dangerous than fighting? Why is it that it's mostly enforcers that end up addicted to pain killers, overdosing, & committing suicide? I really doubt you believe what you posted there.

Are you saying that more players in the NHL are injured due to fighting than from a hit, legal or not? Do you really believe that?

At least when players fight, they both agree to it, and know what they are getting invloved in. Also the refs seem to do a pretty good job of handling it and knowing when to call it.

Just show me some stats backing up what you are saying, and maybe I'll change my opinion on this.

 

[juliansteed]

I just don't see how any of the arguments for fighting stand up anymore.

1) Self-policing? Right. Because the cheapshot artists of the NHL are worried about having to fight later? They just turtle, let their goon deal with the consequences, and cheapshot another day. And anyway, now we see fights after every big hit, clear or dirty, so it's not like these guys can make a good judgement as to what needs to be policed.

2) Popular amongst players? So what? They didn't want helmets or a salary cap either. And somehow, I'm not surprised that most of them are against a rule that would essentially put one of their teammates out of business and a career. Shocking.

3) Popular amongst fans? Again, a popular opinion is not necessarily a good one. And IPW, a self-reported voluntary survey on a website isn't exactly representative, stats 101. Also, asking just hockey fans the question doesn't really capture the possibility of people who would be fans if there wasn't fighting.

4) Hits are dangerous too, why not take it out of the game? Okay, but hitting is legal. It's a contact sport. There's a purpose to hitting other than hurting your opponent. Fighting? Not so much. And there are plenty of contact sports with high intensity that don't allow fighting. (Basically, every other one.)

I don't mind the occasional fight, but a 5 minute penalty is ridiculous. Maybe an increasing system? First time, it's a game misconduct, with suspensions of increasing length as the season goes on. After five fights, you're done for season. So you can still have your fights, and the subsequent momentum swings, but it better be worth it.

Good points. I just want to mention that the logic used in the last line of your 3rd point could also apply to the 2nd. My guess is that if fighting was out of the game it likely wouldn't attract that much more talent but I seriously doubt you would lose much either. We'll never know. Even if it is taken out it would be very hard to measure.

 

[IPostedWhat]

You know, IPW, you usually have some good points to make, so I don't know why you also clutter them with some really shitty nonsense.

That's because I'm on the other side of the fence than you are. I could say the same things about some of your opinions, but I'm a gentleman.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

No, I'm pretty sure they do know. What you have to understand is that these guys are getting paid a good amount of money to fight. Some of them like Scott have no other skills but fighting. Money wins out over health concerns, but that is the risk they know and are willing to take.

Fine then if this is all about money stop paying goons to be in league over people with real talent and skills, fine and suspend players for throwing punches to the head. Stop encouraging a system which rewards people for doing things which can contribute to drug addictions & TBIs. Stuff like that gives hockey a bad name and a big reason people would rather watch the NFL MLB & NBA over the NHL. In the minds of many people, hockey is about as credible of a sport as pro wrestling.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Are you saying that more players in the NHL are injured due to fighting than from a hit, legal or not? Do you really believe that?

At least when players fight, they both agree to it, and know what they are getting invloved in. Also the refs seem to do a pretty good job of handling it and knowing when to call it.

Just show me some stats backing up what you are saying, and maybe I'll change my opinion on this.

The issue isn't just any type of injury, it's traumatic head injuries, which have long term consequences which destroy peoples' lives. As far as statistics are concerned they aren't easily available but there are only 3 NHL players who have died of complications related to encephalopathy and all 3 fought for a living. I'm also completely against head shots and I believe that all head shots should result in automatic ejections fines & suspensions regardless if it's accidental or intentional so I have no problems with them treating body checking the same way.

 

[IPostedWhat]

Fine then if this is all about money stop paying goons to be in league over people with real talent and skills, fine and suspend players for throwing punches to the head. Stop encouraging a system which rewards people for doing things which can contribute to drug addictions & TBIs. Stuff like that gives hockey a bad name and a big reason people would rather watch the NFL MLB & NBA over the NHL. In the minds of many people, hockey is about as credible of a sport as pro wrestling.

If you got rid of fighting in the NHL, injuries and cheap shots would go up across the board. Then people like you will start screaming about all the cheap shots in the game, and how it is ruining the sport.

The solution isn't to remove fighting altogether, but to restrict and reduce the amount of fights that aren't necesarry. No solution is perfect, but can you say that any sport has a perfect system?

 

[IPostedWhat]

The issue isn't just any type of injury, it's traumatic head injuries, which have long term consequences which destroy peoples' lives. As far as statistics are concerned they aren't easily available but there are only 3 NHL players who have died of complications related to encephalopathy and all 3 fought for a living. I'm also completely against head shots and I believe that all head shots should result in automatic ejections fines & suspensions regardless if it's accidental or intentional so I have no problems with them treating body checking the same way.

How many players have had serious injuries not related to fighting in the NHL? How many players careers were ended from injuries not related to fighting? How many players have died from injuries not related to fighting?

So if a player is seriously injured from fighting, then it's barbaric, and it needs to be removed from the game. But if a player is seriously injured from a hit (legal or not), then it's chalked up to bad luck, and we should all just move on? No outrage, no protests, nothing?

It's easier to just say "no fighting" as a rule, and just sit back and be proud that no one else will ever get hurt again? That fans will come flocking by the thousand now that fighting is gone from the game?

Such a wonderful World some people seem to live in.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

If you got rid of fighting in the NHL, injuries and cheap shots would go up across the board. Then people like you will start screaming about all the cheap shots in the game, and how it is ruining the sport.

The solution isn't to remove fighting altogether, but to restrict and reduce the amount of fights that aren't necesarry. No solution is perfect, but can you say that any sport has a perfect system?

The simple solution would be to also eject, fine, & suspend players for taking cheap shots as well. This is how other sports leagues handle the same situations without allowing and encouraging the players to repeatedly punch each other in the head and then slam each other to a hard surface.

 

[Dacks]

Yeah, it's not like you see other major sports have concerns with head injuries. That's because they don't allow fighting of any kind.

That's because I'm on the other side of the fence than you are. I could say the same things about some of your opinions, but I'm a gentleman.

It's the above type of post I'm referring to. Nobody is trying to argue that eliminating fighting will somehow eliminate all risk of head injuries, or that sports without fighting don't have the risk of head injuries. It's a strawman argument.

You keep coming back to injuries. Yes, hitting leads to more injuries - although I'd argue there's a lot more hits a game than fights, so on a rate of injury argument, I still think fighting is worse. But again, it's not the main point. The point is that legal hits serve many valid purposes, and injuring your opponent is not amongst them. Illegal hits where you try to injure your opponent are punished severely (or should be). Fighting, your goal is to explicitly injure your opponent, and it's essentially treated with a slap on the wrist. I recognize that there can be some positive purposes to fighting, but when weighed against the negatives they don't stack up. Whereas the positive purposes of hitting far outweigh the negatives.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

How many players have had serious injuries not related to fighting in the NHL? How many players careers were ended from injuries not related to fighting? How many players have died from injuries not related to fighting?

So if a player is seriously injured from fighting, then it's barbaric, and it needs to be removed from the game. But if a player is seriously injured from a hit (legal or not), then it's chalked up to bad luck, and we should all just move on? No outrage, no protests, nothing?

It's easier to just say "no fighting" as a rule, and just sit back and be proud that no one else will ever get hurt again? That fans will come flocking by the thousand now that fighting is gone from the game?

Such a wonderful World some people seem to live in.

Did you notice that in my post I said they should treat body checking the same way. Head shots shouldn't be tolerated either and there is plenty of outrage about it. What you just did was create a straw man & a red herring in a single post. Props

 

[Dacks]

If you got rid of fighting in the NHL, injuries and cheap shots would go up across the board. Then people like you will start screaming about all the cheap shots in the game, and how it is ruining the sport.

The solution isn't to remove fighting altogether, but to restrict and reduce the amount of fights that aren't necesarry. No solution is perfect, but can you say that any sport has a perfect system?

The heart of our disagreement is your first point. I disagree completely. Kind of hard to prove either way.

Your second paragraph, we are in agreement. The fact is, no matter what the penalty is, some fights will still occur. Technically, fighting is illegal in the NHL. It just has such a paltry penalty, that fights happen for trivial reasons. If fighting came with higher consequences, it would still occur, but probably way less frequently, and only when something major initiated it.

As it stands, we get showfights between guys who wouldn't play a minute otherwise, fights after clean hits, and even fights in pre-season from some young player who's just trying to prove he has heart.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

LOL yeah forget using facts time to use fists. This is the only way to settle this debate.

 

[IPostedWhat]

The simple solution would be to also eject, fine, & suspend players for taking cheap shots as well. This is how other sports leagues handle the same situations without allowing and encouraging the players to repeatedly punch each other in the head and then slam each other to a hard surface.

It's the above type of post I'm referring to. Nobody is trying to argue that eliminating fighting will somehow eliminate all risk of head injuries, or that sports without fighting don't have the risk of head injuries. It's a strawman argument.

You keep coming back to injuries. Yes, hitting leads to more injuries - although I'd argue there's a lot more hits a game than fights, so on a rate of injury argument, I still think fighting is worse. But again, it's not the main point. The point is that legal hits serve many valid purposes, and injuring your opponent is not amongst them. Illegal hits where you try to injure your opponent are punished severely (or should be). Fighting, your goal is to explicitly injure your opponent, and it's essentially treated with a slap on the wrist. I recognize that there can be some positive purposes to fighting, but when weighed against the negatives they don't stack up. Whereas the positive purposes of hitting far outweigh the negatives.

Did you notice that in my post I said they should treat body checking the same way. Head shots shouldn't be tolerated either and there is plenty of outrage about it. What you just did was create a straw man & a red herring in a single post. Props

If you are saying that taking fighting out of the game is for the players safety and well being in life, then why are you not in favor of taking hitting out of the game as well?

You show me a stat that says that more players are injured in fights that hits, and I'll stop right now. You can't take one aspect of a game that leads to injuries and say it should be removed from the game while supporting another aspect of the game that leads to more players getting injured.

Hitting is part of the game, but a lot of hits are questionable, and some lead to penalties. With the game moving as fast as it does, how do you determine if the hit was cheap or not? Too many factors come into play when you look at hitting during the game. So why not make it easier on everyone and take that out of the game as well?

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

If you are saying that taking fighting out of the game is for the players safety and well being in life, then why are you not in favor of taking hitting out of the game as well?

You show me a stat that says that more players are injured in fights that hits, and I'll stop right now. You can't take one aspect of a game that leads to injuries and say it should be removed from the game while supporting another aspect of the game that leads to more players getting injured.

Hitting is part of the game, but a lot of hits are questionable, and some lead to penalties. With the game moving as fast as it does, how do you determine if the hit was cheap or not? Too many factors come into play when you look at hitting during the game. So why not make it easier on everyone and take that out of the game as well?

Fine lets take hitting out of the game. Now are you willing to get rid of fighting? What a joke this game would be if they allowed fighting but banned hitting.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

Being a Red Wing fan, I didn't know hitting and fighting were still allowed in today's NHL.

 

[dash]

 

[IPostedWhat]

Fine lets take hitting out of the game. Now are you willing to get rid of fighting? What a joke this game would be if they allowed fighting but banned hitting.

Missed the point, but that's okay, you still get a cupcake.

 

[IPostedWhat]

How many players in the NHL would you say are the fighters or goons? What percentage of all players in the NHL would you say fall under that category?

 

[IPostedWhat]

*Clicking won't actually open it.