Yankees @ M's 6/1-6/3

[phredmojo]

And yes, the mud clay can throw felix off big time.

 

[phredmojo]

The major issue with the team is how unorganized our management is and how horrible our scouts are.


Every fucking player on the need should be forced to watch hours of film on their down time.

 

[cezero]

If this organization actually gave Z a 4th manager hire that would be beyond comprehensible even for this group.

They find new ways to defy logic every season.

Except, that's not quite right since they manage to increase revenue consistently.

I guess their decisions are perfectly logical for what they choose to care about.

 

[NWinAZ]

How do you know? Lloyd can't put together the roster. Zunino needed to go down last year and Z didn't pick up a solid backstop for us. Ackley is still up when he should have been gone 2 years ago. The Smoak trade was a complete bust. All of his pick-ups to fill gaps have been horribly mediocre. WTF is any manager supposed to do when dealt a hand that's destined to be in the bottom 3rd of MLB in offense?

1- Jack sucks and is not a GM
2- The play on the field with errors, base running gaffs, sacrificing bunting guys over when we can't drive them in anyways, lineups, pitching changes, and just a lackadaisical attitude on the field are all reflections of the manager.
3- All major outlets picked M's to go to world series so the talent level should not be as bad as what we are watching.
4- Who wanted his guy Jackson? He wasn't Jack's guy, but Lloyd's guy.
5- The Smoak trade was a wash. We gave nothing up, and got nothing back in return. The best that could have come out of it is if kept Lee the whole year and picked up a draft pick when he left. But with M's draft record, does that even matter?
6- Lou did pretty well with 1 legit stud SP, a shaky pen, and 3 legit hitters and a bunch of overachievers who someone got the most out of...and a hint it wasn't the GM that got the most out of them.
7- Finally- Isn't Lloyd's strongest asset is his career as a hitting coach? 25th.

 

[phredmojo]

When i watch this team play, i feel strongly that they're not training properly. The coaching staff hasnt a clue on what they're doing, i never hear of any of the players sitting down and watching video after video of the following days pitcher/hitters. Jamie Moyer used to do that all the time, he studied the hitters he would face.

The batters could do the same, look at edgar, he was no doubt in the video room, he also numbered his balls in the batting cage so he could practice seeing the number as it got closer.

I dont see this kind of enthusiasm to improve with this crop other than seager and cruz. This is why i have so much respect about ichiro, who gets a bad rep for no reason. He had the toughest workout regiment of any of his team mates which is why he was able to perform at such a high level so easilly.


We need coaches who understand the importance of fundamentals, studying their opponents and knowing what weaknesses to improve upon..


And delivering a solution...

None of the staff on the team thinks beyond highschool level baseball.... through watching video on a pitcher, you can pickup his routine and his tells... it really makes up the difference between getting called out on a steal or being safe because you saw a flay in his delivery from video sessions.

This team has no concept of that...

 

[gohusk]

1- Jack sucks and is not a GM
2- The play on the field with errors, base running gaffs, sacrificing bunting guys over when we can't drive them in anyways, lineups, pitching changes, and just a lackadaisical attitude on the field are all reflections of the manager.
3- All major outlets picked M's to go to world series so the talent level should not be as bad as what we are watching.
4- Who wanted his guy Jackson? He wasn't Jack's guy, but Lloyd's guy.
5- The Smoak trade was a wash. We gave nothing up, and got nothing back in return. The best that could have come out of it is if kept Lee the whole year and picked up a draft pick when he left. But with M's draft record, does that even matter?
6- Lou did pretty well with 1 legit stud SP, a shaky pen, and 3 legit hitters and a bunch of overachievers who someone got the most out of...and a hint it wasn't the GM that got the most out of them.
7- Finally- Isn't Lloyd's strongest asset is his career as a hitting coach? 25th.

We've gone through multiple coaches and nobody can seem to hit. At some point you have to realize that the guys being brought in just aren't good. What's been the one constant during this horrific offensive stretch? HIM! It's fun to throw coaches under the bus but when every guy ends up doing the exact same thing then that's obviously not the problem. As far as Lee goes, he was coveted by a lot of teams for a postseason push and we picked him up specifically to make a move. It wasn't nothing for nothing. It was a lot for nothing. As far as all of the major outlets go, who gives a fuck. Everyone here knows that the hitting has been the issue for years now. He isn't fixing it. You can't have half the batting order flirting with .200 and hope to sustain rallies.

It's fun to bash coaches and seems to be the thing to do when we have yet another season like this, but after so many guys it's time to wake up and realize that isn't near the #1 problem with the team. It's him. And the only reason people picked us going into this year is because of what Lloyd did with this pathetic offense last year. So he's going to get the blame for this fiasco then he deserves credit for what he did last year, which is win. We didn't fill the gaps we needed to fill in the offseason and that's on Z. Can his ass.

 

[cezero]

Looking more closely at Mike Montgomery's MiLB numbers, I must say, he's really something.

 

[Msfann]

I wasn't suggesting Lloyd be canned in my above post but more so I can see it happening soon because that's part of the cycle with the Mariners front office.. as others have pointed out Jack Z has hired 4 managers in his time here.

Jack Z keeps setting these guys up for failure then fires them while he gets to sign extensions.

 

[Anointed One]

How do you know? Lloyd can't put together the roster. Zunino needed to go down last year and Z didn't pick up a solid backstop for us. Ackley is still up when he should have been gone 2 years ago. The Smoak trade was a complete bust. All of his pick-ups to fill gaps have been horribly mediocre. WTF is any manager supposed to do when dealt a hand that's destined to be in the bottom 3rd of MLB in offense?

Himself and his staff have to develop the players, no? Isn't that part of the coaching staff's job description? Lloyd is a hitting coach at heart... His teams have stunk in that category... A lot of the blame does go to him imo...

 

[cezero]

I wasn't suggesting Lloyd be canned in my above post but more so I can see it happening soon because that's part of the cycle with the Mariners front office.. as others have pointed out Jack Z has hired 4 managers in his time here.

Jack Z keeps setting these guys up for failure then fires them while he gets to sign extensions.

Yeah, I think everybody understood.

Jack Z will indeed throw McClendon under the bus to save his own job. Of course he will.

And I do think ownership is incompetent enough to go along with it and maybe even extend Z. The bottom line is growing, after all, and that's all they care about. Nothing wrong with a never-ending shuffle of skippers if a winning team is something you have at the bottom of your list of priorities.

I've been arguing for years that Z's incompetence isn't just with the players he chooses, but also with the entire support/coaching staff he hires. They can't develop much of anything.

 

[gohusk]

Himself and his staff have to develop the players, no? Isn't that part of the coaching staff's job description? Lloyd is a hitting coach at heart... His teams have stunk in that category... A lot of the blame does go to him imo...

The vets being brought in that suck are a huge part of this problem. Those are Z's siginings. Not bringing in another catcher who can hit at least .220 and catch a change-up is Z's doing.

 

[NWinAZ]

The vets being brought in that suck are a huge part of this problem. Those are Z's siginings. Not bringing in another catcher who can hit at least .220 and catch a change-up is Z's doing.

Did you complain about Cano last year? Are you complaining about Cruz or Smith this year? If you think our success is based on WeAks or Rugg, then not much I can say. Hate Jack, what I see on the field is on Lloyd no matter how bad we think the players are. And again, all national media thought they were pretty good before season started.

Does Jack keep trying to get Jackson a stolen base? Does Jack advance runners on hits just to be thrown out by 10 feet? Does Jack teach a veteran outfielder to throw to the middle of the diamond with a runner on 1B allowing him to advance? Yes our players suck for the most part, but even sucky players improve with good coaching. Where is the improvement?

And if Lloyd is such a great manager, why did it take him almost a decade to get his 2nd job? Last years winning season was his first winning season as manager. He took a 69 win Pirate team and in 3 seasons got him to his high win total of 75 wins. Then 72, then 55 through 136 games and then fired. He is no wizard so let's get that straight.

 

[cezero]

Did you complain about Cano last year? Are you complaining about Cruz or Smith this year? If you think our success is based on WeAks or Rugg, then not much I can say. Hate Jack, what I see on the field is on Lloyd no matter how bad we think the players are. And again, all national media thought they were pretty good before season started.

Does Jack keep trying to get Jackson a stolen base? Does Jack advance runners on hits just to be thrown out by 10 feet? Does Jack teach a veteran outfielder to throw to the middle of the diamond with a runner on 1B allowing him to advance? Yes our players suck for the most part, but even sucky players improve with good coaching. Where is the improvement?

And if Lloyd is such a great manager, why did it take him almost a decade to get his 2nd job? Last years winning season was his first winning season as manager. He took a 69 win Pirate team and in 3 seasons got him to his high win total of 75 wins. Then 72, then 55 through 136 games and then fired. He is no wizard so let's get that straight.

I have the guy you responded to on ignore (taking him off now, as I have done with all other M's fans on here), so it took me about a minute to figure out you weren't responding to me.

 

[NWinAZ]

I have the guy you responded to on ignore (taking him off now, as I have done with all other M's fans on here), so it took me about a minute to figure out you weren't responding to me.

Oh sorry about that. No, I know your thoughts on the subject of Jack, Lloyd, and the team. They all suck...lol

He loves Lloyd and that is fine, and I would agree more if we were talking about a guy like Lou who was proven. Lloyd just spouts garb and deflects facts. Anyone that believes in Rodney at this point, well that alone has to make you question his baseball IQ. Even if Rodney finds himself, he still should be take to the woodshed on his current poor performance. Accountability is my issue...we have none.

 

[cezero]

Yeah, I talked about the accountability part last night.

Terrible losses, and nobody is ever to blame.

That's how this organization has functioned for over a decade.

 

[wazzu31]

I don't think there is a question some blame falls on Lloyd. He keeps preaching we were 1 win away from the playoffs last year when he is ever question, why hasn't a reporter fired back with you had a huge hand in not making the playoffs with your stupid lineups. Then as Zona has stated with all the mental flubs, that is on the manager.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[cezero]

I would never argue in favor of LMC's decisions. I tried last year, but have come to realize that he makes decisions that are personal rather than professional.

For me, though, replacing him as manager is roughly equivalent to putting a different-colored band-aid on a shotgun wound.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Yeah, I talked about the accountability part last night.

Terrible losses, and nobody is ever to blame.

That's how this organization has functioned for over a decade.

I would rate this a winner twice if I could.

 

[Anointed One]

Did you complain about Cano last year? Are you complaining about Cruz or Smith this year? If you think our success is based on WeAks or Rugg, then not much I can say. Hate Jack, what I see on the field is on Lloyd no matter how bad we think the players are. And again, all national media thought they were pretty good before season started.

Does Jack keep trying to get Jackson a stolen base? Does Jack advance runners on hits just to be thrown out by 10 feet? Does Jack teach a veteran outfielder to throw to the middle of the diamond with a runner on 1B allowing him to advance? Yes our players suck for the most part, but even sucky players improve with good coaching. Where is the improvement?

And if Lloyd is such a great manager, why did it take him almost a decade to get his 2nd job? Last years winning season was his first winning season as manager. He took a 69 win Pirate team and in 3 seasons got him to his high win total of 75 wins. Then 72, then 55 through 136 games and then fired. He is no wizard so let's get that straight.

Great summary...