Word out of Giants front office...platoon in left field

[tzill]

I understand the argument but I also feel that it's empty and short sighted. It's only the wrong opportunity if Morse doesn't bounce back AND we lose. I also think this is a 162 game opportunity. There can be many positive and negative swings within 162 games. I expect the ups and downs. If this was a 19 game opportunity (playoffs only) then I agree that it's the wrong opportunity. But, over 162 games ...... nothing ventured .... then nothing gained.

I disagree, I think it's independent of the game outcome. It's the wrong opportunity unless Morse suddenly becomes a better defender than he's been. I think the point Sullivan was making is that Morse's best opportunity would be in the AL where he can DH at least some of the time; you get his bat without suffering his D. Thus, one could argue that a 19 game stretch would actually be a less "wrong" oppo, as his D wouldn't hurt as much as his offense might help.

That all said, I'm hoping for the best and trusting Cranium to limit Beast's exposure in high leverage situations late in the game by bringing in Shark or JCP.

 

[tzill]

I disagree.

By signing Morse, we need to drop someone from the 40-man and we need to drop someone from the roster post-ST. He takes PT away from someone like JCP. He commits errors that lead to runs, which lead to frustrated pitchers, which lead to more bully pitches, etc, etc, etc.

I am talking up my frustration with the deal more than I really feel in order to make a point. I am now a fan of Morse's and I hope that he has a great year and I am proven wrong (again). I just think the team is stronger without him. The only thing he offers is depth early in the season.

Well, not the ONLY thing. He offers dingers -- if healthy. He's a threat down in the order who can feast on a SP relaxing after getting through BB9/MVP/Panda/Herk.

If he's healthy, which he usually isn't. As for the roster spot and the playing time for JCP, those are pretty small opportunity costs compared to the potential for bottom of the order dingers.

Also, dingers.

 

[tzill]

One more thought on this: there is a small advantage to having him in that we would be a NL team with a legit DH (when healthy). We play only 7 road games vs. the NL, so it's a small advantage.

 

[dredinis21]

I would like to see Craw get more at bats higher up in the lineup. Him in the 8 spot, IMO, is a waste of his growth as well as his potential at the plate. As an 8 hitter, you ask those guys to go outside the strike zone with runners on base and I can't help but think that can't be good for a young hitter.

 

[calsnowskier]

I would like to see Craw get more at bats higher up in the lineup. Him in the 8 spot, IMO, is a waste of his growth as well as his potential at the plate. As an 8 hitter, you ask those guys to go outside the strike zone with runners on base and I can't help but think that can't be good for a young hitter.

Agree that Craw is better than an 8 hitter, but where do you propose he should be in the lineup?



We have discussed this as recently as yesterday. The first 7 spots in the lineup are held tight until either an injury or 2015. In 2015, Craw will likely be the #2 hitter.

 

[tzill]

I would like to see Craw get more at bats higher up in the lineup. Him in the 8 spot, IMO, is a waste of his growth as well as his potential at the plate. As an 8 hitter, you ask those guys to go outside the strike zone with runners on base and I can't help but think that can't be good for a young hitter.

He'll eventually move into the 2 slot, but right now Scoots is the prototype there.

 

[SFGRTB]

On Scoot's many days off, I'm sure we'll see Crawford in the 2-spot, unless it's a lefty then expect Arias or Abreu.

Once Scoot's isn't a full-time guy (likely 2015), Crawford should cement himself as the number 2 hitter if he shows continued growth at the plate.

 

[calsnowskier]

On Scoot's many days off, I'm sure we'll see Crawford in the 2-spot, unless it's a lefty then expect Arias or Abreu.

Once Scoot's isn't a full-time guy (likely 2015), Crawford should cement himself as the number 2 hitter if he shows continued growth at the plate.

I think he should be if he stagnates as well. He is, right now, a good #2.

As long as he does not regress, he is our 2015 #2, with Panik likely batting in the 8-hole.

 

[Reefer]

I disagree.

By signing Morse, we need to drop someone from the 40-man and we need to drop someone from the roster post-ST. He takes PT away from someone like JCP. He commits errors that lead to runs, which lead to frustrated pitchers, which lead to more bully pitches, etc, etc, etc.

I am talking up my frustration with the deal more than I really feel in order to make a point. I am now a fan of Morse's and I hope that he has a great year and I am proven wrong (again). I just think the team is stronger without him. The only thing he offers is depth early in the season.

I don't think we wanted JCP taking 400+ ABs this year anyway, if he does than I think that means we are in a lot of trouble. I do like JCP, love the way he plays that game, and think he can be a quality 4th OF on a contending team, but I see him replacing Blanco after this year. I'm not overly worried about Morse's D, as he won't have to cover a ton of ground in LF, he hasn't made a tone of errors in his career in LF (1100+ innings, 1 error). I know his zone coverage out there won't be great, but having Blanco come in late innings and a healthy Pagan should make up for his defensive shortcomings. This ALL depends on if he hits though, if he can return to Washington form, than its gonna be great. I'm hoping for 275. 20HR 70RBI, but I'm always optimistic in the offseason.

 

[calsnowskier]

I don't think we wanted JCP taking 400+ ABs this year anyway, if he does than I think that means we are in a lot of trouble. I do like JCP, love the way he plays that game, and think he can be a quality 4th OF on a contending team, but I see him replacing Blanco after this year. I'm not overly worried about Morse's D, as he won't have to cover a ton of ground in LF, he hasn't made a tone of errors in his career in LF (1100+ innings, 1 error). I know his zone coverage out there won't be great, but having Blanco come in late innings and a healthy Pagan should make up for his defensive shortcomings. This ALL depends on if he hits though, if he can return to Washington form, than its gonna be great. I'm hoping for 275. 20HR 70RBI, but I'm always optimistic in the offseason.

Who said anything about JCP getting 400 ABs? JCP would be the platoon vs lefties. Blanco would have been the platoon vs righties, which gets the lions share of ABs.

As for Morse not having to cover a lot of ground, he will be playing next to Pagan, not Blanco or JCP. Pagan's CF defense is, at best, slightly above average. He is not the kind of defender that Torres was or Blanco is and can cover for a deficient corner fielder. If Morse had not been signed, it was reported that Pagan's days in CF were over with Blanco/JCP taking over the CF job. That switch is now put on hold, further affecting the D.

I have said it before, but I think it is important enough to mention again. I am talking my displeasure with the deal up in order to make a point. I trust this front office 100%. I also trust the coaches to know where to position Morse appropriately and Boch to pull him at the perfect time each game. I do not believe that this was "marketing" signing like Zito or Rowand. The PsTB believe Morse will improve the team, and that is enough for me. I am simply too ignorant to see it right now.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Who said anything about JCP getting 400 ABs? JCP would be the platoon vs lefties. Blanco would have been the platoon vs righties, which gets the lions share of ABs.

As for Morse not having to cover a lot of ground, he will be playing next to Pagan, not Blanco or JCP. Pagan's CF defense is, at best, slightly above average. He is not the kind of defender that Torres was or Blanco is and can cover for a deficient corner fielder. If Morse had not been signed, it was reported that Pagan's days in CF were over with Blanco/JCP taking over the CF job. That switch is now put on hold, further affecting the D.

I have said it before, but I think it is important enough to mention again. I am talking my displeasure with the deal up in order to make a point. I trust this front office 100%. I also trust the coaches to know where to position Morse appropriately and Boch to pull him at the perfect time each game. I do not believe that this was "marketing" signing like Zito or Rowand. The PsTB believe Morse will improve the team, and that is enough for me. I am simply too ignorant to see it right now.

All very good points. I would add (again) that I am trusting that the FO does not view Morse as the ultimate solution (I would have said "final", but that might upset tzill). Rather, he is a look-see, and if he works out, and the D is acceptable, great. If not, the FO has invested very little and we can review the situation come mid-season depending on circumstances. Most of us would not have chosen this solution, but at least we have kept our powder dry. As in poker, sometimes you just have to fold and wait for a better situation before you commit too many chips. More hands are coming.

 

[Reefer]

Who said anything about JCP getting 400 ABs? JCP would be the platoon vs lefties. Blanco would have been the platoon vs righties, which gets the lions share of ABs.

As for Morse not having to cover a lot of ground, he will be playing next to Pagan, not Blanco or JCP. Pagan's CF defense is, at best, slightly above average. He is not the kind of defender that Torres was or Blanco is and can cover for a deficient corner fielder. If Morse had not been signed, it was reported that Pagan's days in CF were over with Blanco/JCP taking over the CF job. That switch is now put on hold, further affecting the D.

I have said it before, but I think it is important enough to mention again. I am talking my displeasure with the deal up in order to make a point. I trust this front office 100%. I also trust the coaches to know where to position Morse appropriately and Boch to pull him at the perfect time each game. I do not believe that this was "marketing" signing like Zito or Rowand. The PsTB believe Morse will improve the team, and that is enough for me. I am simply too ignorant to see it right now.

My bad Cal, I didn't mean to imply you were advocating JCP getting that many ABs. I know Blanco would get the majority of the ABs as the LH part of of the platoon, but the 4th OF is going to get a lot of ABs regardless and if there are any injuries than he'd be thrown into a starting role. Totally agree with you about Pagan range going into this year vs Torres in 2010, but as a fan, I'd be willing to give up some D in LF if Morse can provide some HR power and offensive production that we've missed from the position. If he doesn't hit, than the loss on D isn't worth it and that's why I'm happy with the 1 year deal and have guys like Blanco and JCP to fill in.

I was off in my assessment of the ABs JCP would get, but I was just basing it off the last few yearsnd should have taken Pagan's injury more into account. Like I said, I like JCP, I just think THIS year he would be good as the 5th OF, but if he was in a platoon I don't believe he is ready to provide the type of production with the bat that would be needed. I guess I'm just more excited to give 300+ABs to a guy like Morse who has the potential to provide the offensive production that I think this team needs to contend with LA.

2013: 300+ ABs to Francouer, Kieschnick, Tanaka and the rest of the rotation in LF after the Pagan injury and that's including any ABs Torres gave us. Pagan, Torres and Blanco combined for 1000s ABs.

2012: 300 + ABs to Schierholtz, Christensen and Nady. 1000 Abs for Blanco and Pagan and another 600 for Pence/Melky.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Salaries are really, really crazy. Uribe just got $15M over two years from the Dodgers. This *after* his first two total flop seasons with the doggies, so they know what he is capable of. Mike Morse is starting to look like a steal.

 

[msgkings322]

Salaries are really, really crazy. Uribe just got $15M over two years from the Dodgers. This *after* his first two total flop seasons with the doggies, so they know what he is capable of. Mike Morse is starting to look like a steal.

But they're just ape crazy bananas in LA. Those guys just do not give a fuck. Like Ben Bernanke is their owner.

 

[tzill]

I don't think we wanted JCP taking 400+ ABs this year anyway, if he does than I think that means we are in a lot of trouble. I do like JCP, love the way he plays that game, and think he can be a quality 4th OF on a contending team, but I see him replacing Blanco after this year. I'm not overly worried about Morse's D, as he won't have to cover a ton of ground in LF, he hasn't made a tone of errors in his career in LF (1100+ innings, 1 error). I know his zone coverage out there won't be great, but having Blanco come in late innings and a healthy Pagan should make up for his defensive shortcomings. This ALL depends on if he hits though, if he can return to Washington form, than its gonna be great. I'm hoping for 275. 20HR 70RBI, but I'm always optimistic in the offseason.

Part of his lack of errors is that he just doesn't get to many balls. What we'd need to know is how many balls have gotten past him that should have been cut off as singles, or caught. I'm willing to be surprised by Morse, but I'm not expecting great things.

 

[tzill]

My bad Cal, I didn't mean to imply you were advocating JCP getting that many ABs. I know Blanco would get the majority of the ABs as the LH part of of the platoon, but the 4th OF is going to get a lot of ABs regardless and if there are any injuries than he'd be thrown into a starting role. Totally agree with you about Pagan range going into this year vs Torres in 2010, but as a fan, I'd be willing to give up some D in LF if Morse can provide some HR power and offensive production that we've missed from the position. If he doesn't hit, than the loss on D isn't worth it and that's why I'm happy with the 1 year deal and have guys like Blanco and JCP to fill in.

I was off in my assessment of the ABs JCP would get, but I was just basing it off the last few yearsnd should have taken Pagan's injury more into account. Like I said, I like JCP, I just think THIS year he would be good as the 5th OF, but if he was in a platoon I don't believe he is ready to provide the type of production with the bat that would be needed. I guess I'm just more excited to give 300+ABs to a guy like Morse who has the potential to provide the offensive production that I think this team needs to contend with LA.

2013: 300+ ABs to Francouer, Kieschnick, Tanaka and the rest of the rotation in LF after the Pagan injury and that's including any ABs Torres gave us. Pagan, Torres and Blanco combined for 1000s ABs.

2012: 300 + ABs to Schierholtz, Christensen and Nady. 1000 Abs for Blanco and Pagan and another 600 for Pence/Melky.

I think this is a misconception. The ability to contend with los doyers won't depend on the offense, it will depend on the pitching and the defense. We sucked last year because: 1. Cain has his worst year 2. Timmy was awful the first third of the season 3. Tron was awful and then got hurt and 4. Zeets was awful.

That did us in. If Bum/Cain/Freak/Huddy/Tron aren't a significant upgrade over last year's starters, it won't matter who plays LF.

 

[msgkings322]

I think this is a misconception. The ability to contend with los doyers won't depend on the offense, it will depend on the pitching and the defense. We sucked last year because: 1. Cain has his worst year 2. Timmy was awful the first third of the season 3. Tron was awful and then got hurt and 4. Zeets was awful.

That did us in. If Bum/Cain/Freak/Huddy/Tron aren't a significant upgrade over last year's starters, it won't matter who plays LF.

This is a fair point, and pitching (and defense) should and have been the priority. But more is more, more offense is better than less, the Dodgers are being nuts with $ and it's not my money so I hope our guys try to at least keep up somewhat.

Our pitching could match the Dodgers and we still fall short because of our offense.

 

[calsnowskier]

This is a fair point, and pitching (and defense) should and have been the priority. But more is more, more offense is better than less, the Dodgers are being nuts with $ and it's not my money so I hope our guys try to at least keep up somewhat.

Our pitching could match the Dodgers and we still fall short because of our offense.

Well, there's the rub. Morse provides more offense. But he provides that at the cost of defense.

You said yourself that the priority is (shoud be) pitching and defense, but in the same breath, you declare that Morse's increase in offense simply equates to "more". If the priority is P&D over O, how is this statement accurate?

 

[msgkings322]

Well, there's the rub. Morse provides more offense. But he provides that at the cost of defense.

You said yourself that the priority is (shoud be) pitching and defense, but in the same breath, you declare that Morse's increase in offense simply equates to "more". If the priority is P&D over O, how is this statement accurate?

I suppose my logic isn't flawless here but I'll square the circle by saying pitching is a lot more important than defense, and that Morse will be pulled early and often for defense, and won't start every game vs righties, etc. I guess I'm hoping the addition he brings to the O is more important than whatever we lose with him in LF, not usually a defense-priority position. Lots of NL teams hide their worst fielders at first and LF.

Like I've been saying, adding Morse was slightly better than not adding him. Of course like the rest of you I wanted a more solid choice. We're going to have to get lucky, as all championship teams do, with good health and more overachievers than underachievers. There were question marks about Pagan, and Burrell, and Scutaro, etc and they worked out. SOmetimes they don't. But again, we rolled the dice, low risk option, might come up seven.

 

[tzill]

This is a fair point, and pitching (and defense) should and have been the priority. But more is more, more offense is better than less, the Dodgers are being nuts with $ and it's not my money so I hope our guys try to at least keep up somewhat.

Our pitching could match the Dodgers and we still fall short because of our offense.

If that happens, you have dibbs on the rant. I seriously doubt that will be the reason if we fall short.