Woj: Cavs fire David Blatt

[gordontrue]

Also, the criticism from coaches could very well be meaningful if the Cavs are looking to hire a new coach in the future and can't seem to get any interest from the better coaches.

Fair point but the Cavs seem to have their guy for next few years.

This morning on Mike & Mike, Griffin acknowledged that it as a Title or Bust year for the Cavs... but specifically said that it was NOT title or bust in terms of wanting Lue as their head coach.

Anyway, the only coaches with the luxury of being so coveted that they can get choosy and pissy about past coach loyalty have too much of an established reputation to even have to worry about that - and are pipe dreams. (Popovich and Carlisle is probably the entire list).

 

[gordontrue]

Miami doesn't press the panic button as Cleveland typically does. The difference between a great organization and a shitty one

Difference between a great organization and the other 27.

Spurs, Mavs, Heat. That's the list of teams who don't have their coaches on a short leash. And in the case of the Spurs... come on, not too difficult.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't know they were pretty critical when it was McHale, Thibodeau, Scott Brooks, Marc Jackson, Del *****, SVG, etc, etc.

Popovich and Carlisle - in particular - are known for criticizing the firings of coaches (Which is ironic since they both replaced two of the winningest coaches to ever be fired... Bob Hill and Avery Johnson)

Here's just a few from a quick google search:

Carlisle on McHale's firing:
"It's preposterous," he said. "It's beyond belief. I'm really shocked. It's just hard to believe that something could happen at this stage to a guy who took a team unexpectedly to the conference finals last year. To have this happen after just 11 games is just preposterous. Nobody expects this. It's very disappointing to hear.

Popovich on Avery Johnson's firing:
Of course, many of us were surprised to see what happened. From my perspective, Avery’s not a good coach, he’s a very good coach. He’s a hell of a coach. He’s proven that. There aren’t too many of us out there who have ever won 67 games in a season. He’s taken a team to the Finals. If my memory serves me correct, he was Coach of the Month. It sort of shows what a fickle, volatile business we’re in. We’ve seen it before, but I can’t help but think that sometimes a little patience can go a long way. Mike Krzyzewski, arguably our best coach we have in basketball today, things didn’t go very well in the beginning. But he had an (athletic director) who was smart enough to know what he had and he exhibited a lot of patience, so now you see where Coach K is

Brad Stavens on McHale's firing:
"I don’t agree with the [it]. I think that Kevin is a great coach. Kevin has been great to me. Kevin is obviously a great Celtic. People love him everywhere they’ve been. Everybody that you hear from loves working with him, loves being around him. To me — from the outside looking in — it looks like, 11 games in, making a rash decision.

That's still just 2 coaches who are known for being critical and Stevens. Something like 8 or 9 coaches have spoken out about Blatt. Some of those coaches have never said anything.

Like it or not, this is going to be criticized because of the circumstances around it. No coach coming off of a finals appearance and with the current best record in the conference has ever been fired in the history of the NBA. In fact, I'm not sure it's ever happened in professional sports. Like it or not, that's news and people are going say stuff.

By the end of the season, if the Cavs win the title, it will be looked at as a bold move that was just what the Cavs needed to get them over the top. Until then or if they don't win the title, it will continue to be criticized and questioned. The Cavs were already in championship or bust mode and have now managed to place even more pressure on themselves than was already there.

I mean, even Wiggy, the guy who thinks that every move the Cavs have made has been perfect is like

 

[gordontrue]

That's still just 2 coaches who are known for being critical and Stevens. Something like 8 or 9 coaches have spoken out about Blatt. Some of those coaches have never said anything.

Like it or not, this is going to be criticized because of the circumstances around it. No coach coming off of a finals appearance and with the current best record in the conference has ever been fired in the history of the NBA. In fact, I'm not sure it's ever happened in professional sports. Like it or not, that's news and people are going say stuff.

By the end of the season, if the Cavs win the title, it will be looked at as a bold move that was just what the Cavs needed to get them over the top. Until then or if they don't win the title, it will continue to be criticized and questioned. The Cavs were already in championship or bust mode and have now managed to place even more pressure on themselves than was already there.

I mean, even Wiggy, the guy who thinks that every move the Cavs have made has been perfect is like

Yeah, you're right its p[probably more volume of criticism from the coaches than what we've seen before. (Might be partly due to how much bigger of news it is than past firings... and has probably been directly asked to every coach much moreso than previous firings).

And, again, I'm not saying the move isn't worthy of criticism. I haven't once defended the move. I'm hopeful and holding out judgment, but my initial reaction wasn't really a positive one.

Its probably unfair for me to say that a coach criticizing the firing of a coach isn't meaningful at all.... but it definitely should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah, you're right its definitely more volume of criticism from the coaches than what we've seen.

And, again, I'm not saying the move isn't worthy of criticism. I haven't once defended the move yet. I'm hopeful and holding out judgment, but my initial reaction wasn't really a positive one.

Its probably unfair for me to say that a coach criticizing the firing of a coach isn't meaningful at all.... but it definitely should be taken with a grain of salt.

If it helps Cavs fans feel better. It kind of reminds me of the early Showtime Lakers days when Paul Westhead got fired early in the season and was replaced by Pat Riley. Magic was blamed for that (like Lebron is being blamed now) because he made a "him or me" type comment when he grew frustrated with Westhead's offense.

The move was bashed when it happened and Magic was called a "coach killer" (not to the extent of the Blatt firing because we didn't have the 24 hour instant access that we have now). Jerry Buss had also grown frustrated with Westhead and was apparently already considering firing him. He even met with Magic and warned him that because of his comment, he'd get blamed even though it wasn't his call.

The Lakers went on to win the title (and a few more) and that same move that was hugely criticized, became a "bold move" and Magic went from coach killer to one of the most beloved players in NBA history.

 

[LAD]

Blatt was hired before they landed Lebron.

Yea I know, but why should that interfere with him coaching? They should've waited to hire a coach until after they knew whether or not LBJ was going back. Simple.
Them hiring Lue as an assistant-even though he & Blatt were competing for the same HC job- was a bit of an undercut to Blatt imo. That was their way of securing a plan "B" effectively showing-to Blatt's face- they had zero confidence in him.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Has anyone really read all the articles about this and still think David Blatt should have been coach? (shoulda put it here obviously! duh)

1. AMUNDSON: It’s hard for a rookie coach to come in and be in a situation like that where one guy [James] is such a big influence on a whole organization,’’ Amundson said. “That’s a tough position to be in. However, you need in that situation to be assertive and make sure your players know you’re going to hold them accountable, every one of them, and they’re going to respect you. In the NBA, coaching is more managing than coaching.
“It’s important to just be assertive and not let that happen. Hold everybody accountable, otherwise you lose respect and attention of your guys.’’
Amundson has been in plenty of locker rooms — the Knicks are his 10th team. He couldn’t believe, despite the horrendous record, the texture of the Knicks’ room was more closely knit than in Cleveland.
“It didn’t feel like it should feel,’’ Amundson said. “A team with championship aspirations, that’s not how it was supposed to feel. Teams go through ups and downs, but I just think the atmosphere and energy wasn’t there. It wasn’t a healthy atmosphere. Teams go through issues, but it still feels you work through stuff being productive. In that disagreement, it didn’t feel like that. But they did manage to get it together.’’

2. HAYWOOD:
“From what I was hearing, David Blatt kind of lost the team,” Haywood told hosts Justine Termine and former NBA player Eddie Johnson. “Then there were differences about what guys should be playing and what guys weren’t playing, from a management-coaching standpoint.
“When you throw in those type of things combined with the fact that Tyronn Lue already had a lot of power in the organization, had a lot of traction, and a lot of people that were there already viewed him as the coach, these type of things happen.”
Lue, 38, the Cavs’ associate coach was promoted to Blatt’s position Friday, agreeing to a new multi-year deal. There had been reports last season that Cleveland players heeded Lue’s instructions, confided in him and leaned more on his advice than on Blatt’s.
“It’s unfortunate because David Blatt’s a good guy,” the 7-footer said. “He was in first place. I’ve never seen a coach in first place fired. And on top of that, they’re in first place and their second-best player [Kyrie Irving] didn’t play most of the first part of the season.”
But there were legitimate reasons for the change that Haywood specified in the satellite radio interview. Among his charges: Blatt had a double standard toward James that other Cavaliers players resented.
“Coach Blatt was very hesitant to challenge LeBron James,” Haywood said. “It was one of those situations where, being a rookie coach, and LeBron being bigger than life, it was a little too much for him. I remember we had James Jones [talk] to Coach about how, ‘Hey, you can’t just skip over when LeBron James makes a mistake in the film room.’ Because we all see it.
“And we’re like, ‘Hey, you didn’t say anything about that. You’re going to correct when Matthew Dellavedova‘s not in the right spot. You’re going to say something when Tristan Thompson‘s not in the right spot. Well, we see a fast break and LeBron didn’t get back on defense or there’s a rotation and he’s supposed to be there, and you just keep rolling the film and the whole room is quiet.’ We see that as players. That’s when … as a player, you start to lose respect for a coach.
“Slowly but surely, that respect started chipping away where he would kind of be scared to correct LeBron in film sessions. When he would call every foul for LeBron in practice. Those type of things add up. Guys are like, ‘C’mon man, are you scared of him?’ ”

3. TIMEOUTS

Word circulated to cleveland.com that Blatt had trouble drawing up plays out of timeouts. He would freeze up and waste precious seconds, one player said. He would even draw up plays for players who weren't in the game, another player said.
In the closeout game of the Eastern Conference Finals, a game the Cavaliers trounced the Atlanta Hawks by 30 to sweep the series; Blatt had signaled for Tristan Thompson to reenter in the closing minutes with the game already wrapped up. This was when Thompson was the team's most valuable big man with Kevin Love out of commission with a dislocated shoulder.
Word circulated to cleveland.com that Blatt had trouble drawing up plays out of timeouts. He would freeze up and waste precious seconds, one player said. He would even draw up plays for players who weren't in the game, another player said.
In the closeout game of the Eastern Conference Finals, a game the Cavaliers trounced the Atlanta Hawks by 30 to sweep the series; Blatt had signaled for Tristan Thompson to reenter in the closing minutes with the game already wrapped up. This was when Thompson was the team's most valuable big man with Kevin Love out of commission with a dislocated shoulder.

Timeouts had been an issue already. Blatt mismanaged them early in the season and sometimes turned to Lue about when to execute certain timeouts. Teams can take advantage of certain mandatory timeouts and conserve options, something with which Blatt had issues. When he tried to explain what happened, he made the situation worse.
"A basketball coach makes 150 to 200 critical decisions during the course of a game, something that I think is paralleled only by a fighter pilot," Blatt said.

4. CHICAGO PLAYOFFS - TIMEOUT WHEN THEY HAD NONE- calling a timeout without one- and then having LeBron INBOUND the ball and NOT take the last shot that LeBron vetoed-

5. PACE AND SHAPE: The team is not in good shape and while it is top 5 in offensive efficiency- for a team with LeBron and Kyrie to be bottom 5 in pace is RIDICULOUS- when you have 2 of the BESt open court- guys to push the ball in the league-- thats what you do

6. USE OF KEVIN LOVE: Maybe hte most egregious of Blatts failures. IMMEDIATELY- Lue has said what anyone with common sense has said FOREVER--- get Love the ball at the elbows were he is the most productive and where he can post up as he is a VERY GOOD post scorer-- instead of relegating him to a stretch 4 like Blatt MOSTLY did.--- SUPPOSEDLY--- Blatt told friends in Israel-- "Its either me or Kevin Love" (leaving)...WOW...

7. CONNECTION AND COMMUNICATION WITH PLAYERS: That night, the Cleveland Cavaliers had defeated the Chicago Bulls for their first win of the season and Blatt's first win as an NBA coach. The players waited for him in the locker room, and when he emerged from his office they mobbed him, mussed his hair and yelled. They presented him with the game ball. Blatt accepted it with a smile, but he was also annoyed.

"I've been a head coach for 22 years. People overlook that too easily and, I think, unfairly," Blatt said last season. "I am not now, nor have I have been for quite some time, a rookie coach."

8. LUE AS RUNNER UP AND ASSISTANT:
"David was hired to coach a developmental team and young players who would've wanted to please him," one team source said. "He ended up coaching a finished product where the players expected him to please them."
To complicate matters, the Cavs hired the runner-up for the job, Lue, to be Blatt's assistant. To keep him away from the Clippers, the Cavs gave him a record four-year, $6.5 million deal -- for an assistant. Gilbert would later call the coaching staff the best he had assembled in his time as owner.
Blatt endorsed the Lue move, which many in the league saw as an immediate undercutting of the head coach. Never before could anyone remember the runner-up for a job being hired as the lead assistant, and it was taken as an example of Blatt's NBA inexperience. Blatt also didn't understand that he would have to earn players' respect; it would not be instantly given.

9. OTHER PLAYERS (BESIDES LEBRON) GET ANNOYED: During games, Cavs players complained about the coach to opposing players. Once, while on the road, an injured Cavs player used the home team's therapy pool and complained about Blatt, with his thoughts literally echoing throughout the home locker room.

On Christmas Day, the Cavs made a much-anticipated visit to Golden State for a premier game on the NBA schedule. With a fully healthy roster, Blatt coached as if it were a playoff game, and he slashed his rotation. Richard Jefferson didn't play for the first time all season. Mo Williams and James Jones saw their minutes reduced. Roles were changed on the fly. Certainly, Blatt had to make some tough choices with the healthy roster, but all of them came as surprises to the players, and that triggered a cascade of anger and frustration.

Although it might seem minor to offend back-end rotation players, the move ripped open some wounds from the previous season pertaining to the lack of respect for Blatt within the team. Privately, the players cursed Blatt, and their agents started complaining heavily behind the scenes. Whatever goodwill had been fostered seemed to be blowing up.



WHOEVER THINKS BLATT SHOULD HAVE STAYED AFTER ALL THAT----well....to quote Billy Madison--- I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. In those people's defense though- MOST of this stuff was not known to the public TILL AFTER the firing.​

 

[gordontrue]

If it helps Cavs fans feel better. It kind of reminds me of the early Showtime Lakers days when Paul Westhead got fired early in the season and was replaced by Pat Riley. Magic was blamed for that (like Lebron is being blamed now) because he made a "him or me" type comment when he grew frustrated with Westhead's offense.

The move was bashed when it happened and Magic was called a "coach killer" (not to the extent of the Blatt firing because we didn't have the 24 hour instant access that we have now). Jerry Buss had also grown frustrated with Westhead and was apparently already considering firing him. He even met with Magic and warned him that because of his comment, he'd get blamed even though it wasn't his call.

The Lakers went on to win the title (and a few more) and that same move that was hugely criticized, became a "bold move" and Magic went from coach killer to one of the most beloved players in NBA history.

Yeah, good point. Ultimately, this move will be viewed by whether the Cavs and Lue ultimately win a title together.

People also forget the criticism that came when Popovich - as Spurs GM - fired Bob Hill (who was averaging > 60 wins per year) and named himself head coach. Rumors were he drove out Hill because he coveted his job. Spurs fans really didn't like Popovich back then. Obviously, that move worked out for the Spurs.

Hoping for something similar to either of those scenarios (Lakers&Spurs) is... optimistic... to say the least. But, hey that's what being a fan is all about.

 

[LAD]

I think lebron gave pat the benefit of the doubt but after taking the worst beatdown in nba history against the spurs he started to question him

He was prob sick of carrying that team...he led that team in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, PER and said wait a minute where is my help. Most of the other champions didn't lead the team in every category.

I can agree with this. I think he left because he was doing all the heavy lifting but the getting the same money as Wade & Bosh-after taking a pay cut.

 

[LAD]

Obviously. Bogut is not fast or quick yet he's so smart

Is he smart? I think he's been out-played by Ezeli all season so far. I feel like he doesn't hustle enough and he boarders on bad sportsmanship at times when he's been beat on a play in the paint.

 

[LAD]

What is that? The 6-7th coach to come out and bash the Cavs? Can't think of another firing in recent history so unanimously questioned. Not even Wiggy thought Blatt would be out the door at the half way point.

Further proof that LBJ must have complained about the relationship or lack thereof.

 

[LAD]

Now, I didn't say that. I was shocked by it and I am concerned somewhat. I hope its the right move but I really am not sure.

I feel bad for Blatt. Its pretty rough to have those kind of results and get fired from your job. Its a business though and at least his contract is guaranteed. Coaches that perform well and then get fired seemingly unfairly tend to do just fine getting other gigs. (Bob Hill might be an exception).

My point was just that coaches being critical of a coaches firing doesn't seem very meaningful to me.

I think his tweet to friends that was posted here a few pages back is also telling that there were some going-ons behind the scenes. Honestly, the Cavs had to side with LBJ otherwise every move they've made thus far related to him going back would've been for not.
My thought is Gilbert had to pick a side and it's easier to side with your franchise player and get a new coach. Hopefully for them they haven't scared away the good coaches at the same time. It's not exactly a welcoming sign to any new prospects when a guy makes the Finals in his first season & is the top team in the Conference in his second season and gets fired. It kinda makes LBJ look like he'd be hard to get along with.

 

[gordontrue]

LeBron "coach killer" stuff is beyond crazy to me. Silas, Brown, Spoelstra, Blatt

Silas was fired during James' 2nd season with an overall record of 65 - 79. Spoelstra still has his job. Anyone want to jump into the inviting waters of criticizing the firing of Mike Brown??

 

[lakersrule]

Don't know if it's been discussed, but i read an article indicating that The James Co. had been pushing for the Cavs to hire Mark Jackson since last season. Sounds like Blatt never had a long term chance. It's kind of funny to hear Gilbert say that Lebron had nothing to do with Blatt getting fired.

How David Blatt never stood a chance with LeBron James and his camp

 

[gordontrue]

Don't know if it's been discussed, but i read an article indicating that The James Co. had been pushing for the Cavs to hire Mark Jackson since last season. Sounds like Blatt never had a long term chance. It's kind of funny to hear Gilbert say that Lebron had nothing to do with Blatt getting fired.

How David Blatt never stood a chance with LeBron James and his camp

Woj's opinion pieces on LeBron really need to be taken with a grain of salt. He is the absolute best at breaking news but he has a history of printing strange, critical, fan-esque rants against LeBron. Whether he has some personal thing against LeBron or whether he's just honestly trying to tell the truth as he really knows it.... there's no denying the vitriol and critical slant his articles seem to take when it comes to LeBron.

I said this earlier and people on here didn't like it because they said its not just Woj saying it.... but it is just woj saying it.

Woj is the only one talking about Marc Jackson and Klutch Sports and that angle of this whole thing. That has a completely different spin and allegation on it than "LeBron influenced this move". Any other article that mentions this that I've seen was citing woj's article as the source.

I'm serious. When it comes to the Knicks, John Calipari, David Falk, and especially LeBron... Woj articles (just the articles, not his news-breaking tweets) deserve to be treated with a healthy dose of skepticism.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Players need to earn the respect of the coach, not the other way around.

Blatt was in charge for like what, 17 months? Made the NBA finals, coach of the month a few times and had the best record in the East in both the seasons he was in charge. Despite two of his best three players injured for significant periods of time.

And who cares if there was unrest in the locker room? It sure didn't show it on court. Both the Lakers and Bulls championship teams had periods where players and coaches didn't get along.

You want to know what the real problem is? LEBRON

When Kobe and Jordan didn't like how things were going on the team, they had it out with their team mates. Kobe had a long feud with Shaq and Jordan would even physically fight with teammates.
What does lebron do? Bitches and moans he doesn't have the right coach and forces the GM to persue players the team can't really afford.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Players need to earn the respect of the coach, not the other way around.

Blatt was in charge for like what, 17 months? Made the NBA finals, coach of the month a few times and had the best record in the East in both the seasons he was in charge. Despite two of his best three players injured for significant periods of time.

And who cares if there was unrest in the locker room? It sure didn't show it on court. Both the Lakers and Bulls championship teams had periods where players and coaches didn't get along.

You want to know what the real problem is? LEBRON

When Kobe and Jordan didn't like how things were going on the team, they had it out with their team mates. Kobe had a long feud with Shaq and Jordan would even physically fight with teammates.
What does lebron do? Bitches and moans he doesn't have the right coach and forces the GM to persue players the team can't really afford.

You had until the end, because I think Dan Gilbert can more than afford those players and every one knows you have to pay big money in order to get to the finals.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

You had until the end, because I think Dan Gilbert can more than afford those players and every one knows you have to pay big money in order to get to the finals.

When you're over the cap, you can't afford players. It'll bite you in the ass sooner or later. They've got over $35m invested in Love and TT alone, and only $2m to spend next season.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

When you're over the cap, you can't afford players. It'll bite you in the ass sooner or later. They've got over $35m invested in Love and TT alone, and only $2m to spend next season.

The worst part about Love is that he will be injured again before the playoffs come. Way over-paid

 

[WiggyRuss]

When you're over the cap, you can't afford players. It'll bite you in the ass sooner or later. They've got over $35m invested in Love and TT alone, and only $2m to spend next season.

Haywood trade exception is good for all summer. They get a midlevel exception, they get veteran exceptions....VArejoa has "unguaranteed" money which is actually BETTER than a trade exception-

they have flexibility- not to make huge moves...but they definitely can make the type of roster moves they would have to do with a core of Bron, Irving, Love, Shump, Thompson, Mo, Jr, RJ