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[msgkings322]

I am getting a little concerned that NOTHING has happened with the Giants yet.

We lost out on Sandoval.
We lost out on Tomas.
We lost out on Markakis.
We lost out on Hanley.
We lost out on Cruz.
We lost out on Hunter.
We lost out on Saunders.

Granted, I think that in each of these individually, "losing" was the winning move. But when looked at as a whole, it makes you scratch your head a little and wonder what the team WILL do this off-season.

Sabean's been reading my posts...

 

[msgkings322]

Rowand and Zito were completely different situations. I am not even slightly worried about the potential of those moves. They were both primarily marketing moves to try to convince fans they were serious. No need to convince anyone of that any more. I just worry that they will begin to sit back and relax because they have so much success in the bank.

Or maybe the only winning move this year is not to 'play'. If the deals aren't there...we're not in a win now mode. Play the long game.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

I am getting a little concerned that NOTHING has happened with the Giants yet.

We lost out on Sandoval.
We lost out on Tomas.
We lost out on Markakis.
We lost out on Hanley.
We lost out on Cruz.
We lost out on Hunter.
We lost out on Saunders.

Granted, I think that in each of these individually, "losing" was the winning move. But when looked at as a whole, it makes you scratch your head a little and wonder what the team WILL do this off-season.

If we lose out on Moncada, Lester, Headley and Scherzer. I'll have some real issues with this offseason. Unless they were to admit this is a "transition" year and they went young. Rather than bringing back guys like Morse, Vogelsong, Peavy on multi-year deals.

 

[calsnowskier]

If we lose out on Moncada, Lester, Headley and Scherzer. I'll have some real issues with this offseason. Unless they were to admit this is a "transition" year and they went young. Rather than bringing back guys like Morse, Vogelsong, Peavy on multi-year deals.

If they do decide to punt '15, I am OK with that, as long as they make some selling trades as well. Prob is, we don't really have any sellable pieces outside of the bully.

Unless they want to trade Belt, Craw, or Cain. But I wonder if any of them have the kind of trade value that would make it worth it. Especially for Belt and Craw. They are both still young, so it would be hard to improve the overall team equity by dealing them.

 

[Montalban]

Even if they don't make a big signing for 3B and/or LF there is still an opportunity for the team to improve as it is currently consitiuted. There is a good possibility that Cain, a guy we got nothing from last year, will return to form and give us his normal season. That should add some wins and then if Lincecum should happen to return to some sort of semblance of what he was, that could add something to the team as well.

 

[calsnowskier]

Even if they don't make a big signing for 3B and/or LF there is still an opportunity for the team to improve as it is currently consitiuted. There is a good possibility that Cain, a guy we got nothing from last year, will return to form and give us his normal season. That should add some wins and then if Lincecum should happen to return to some sort of semblance of what he was, that could add something to the team as well.

True.

But those are both BIG "ifs". Especially the point about Timmeh. The main difference between an Ace and a #5 is consistency. Timmeh has flashes of brilliance, but he can not hold that together for more than 3 or 4 starts in a row. That is not something you count on.

I like what Atlanta got in exchange for Hayward. But my criticism is that they now have almost zero offense (pre-Markakis). You have to score runs somewhere.

We lost Sandoval. Pagan is a huge question mark. Posey wears down due to being in the squat. Pence is very streaky. Belt has not shown it yet.

If we get mostly good answers out of all the "ifs" we have this year, we will be fine. But we have WAY too many "ifs" going in right now to not make improvements/shuffle things up a bit.

 

[Montalban]

True.

But those are both BIG "ifs". Especially the point about Timmeh. The main difference between an Ace and a #5 is consistency. Timmeh has flashes of brilliance, but he can not hold that together for more than 3 or 4 starts in a row. That is not something you count on.

I like what Atlanta got in exchange for Hayward. But my criticism is that they now have almost zero offense (pre-Markakis). You have to score runs somewhere.

We lost Sandoval. Pagan is a huge question mark. Posey wears down due to being in the squat. Pence is very streaky. Belt has not shown it yet.

If we get mostly good answers out of all the "ifs" we have this year, we will be fine. But we have WAY too many "ifs" going in right now to not make improvements/shuffle things up a bit.

Agreed on Lincecum but I think its a pretty good shot that we'll get a good season out of Cain. As for Pagan, he's good, but we did it without him much of the season last year. I'm hearing that is back is feeling better than ever so we'll see about that. With the emergence of Susac we can afford to give Posey more rest or put him at first base more; especially if Belt doesn't hit.

Losing Sandoval will take some bite out of the lineup but hopefully Belt will pick it up and we'll find reasonable answers at third and LF. There are holes to be sure but they just need to grab that 6th spot like they did this year and anything can happen.

 

[calsnowskier]

Agreed on Lincecum but I think its a pretty good shot that we'll get a good season out of Cain. As for Pagan, he's good, but we did it without him much of the season last year. I'm hearing that is back is feeling better than ever so we'll see about that. With the emergence of Susac we can afford to give Posey more rest or put him at first base more; especially if Belt doesn't hit.

Losing Sandoval will take some bite out of the lineup but hopefully Belt will pick it up and we'll find reasonable answers at third and LF. There are holes to be sure but they just need to grab that 6th spot like they did this year and anything can happen.

Do you remember how BAD this team was for much of the year last season? We were LITERALLY the worst team in baseball for about a 2-month stretch. We did NOT "do it" without Pagan. We managed once 2B was solved. Also, back surgery is not something that "fixes" someone. It basically makes life manageable. I think it fair to say that Pagan career as a high-level starting-quality OFer is over. We will get out of him whatever we get out of him. He is no longer a major contributor for this team.

 

[Montalban]

Do you remember how BAD this team was for much of the year last season? We were LITERALLY the worst team in baseball for about a 2-month stretch. We did NOT "do it" without Pagan. We managed once 2B was solved. Also, back surgery is not something that "fixes" someone. It basically makes life manageable. I think it fair to say that Pagan career as a high-level starting-quality OFer is over. We will get out of him whatever we get out of him. He is no longer a major contributor for this team.

C'mon now, that wasn't just Pagan being gone that turned the Giants to shit for that part of the season. There was no Belt, there was no Cain and there was no Panik either if I remember correctly. The Giants managed pretty well without Pagan the last part of the season and in the playoffs. Have some faith in Sabean and the boys. We will find a way to compete.

 

[msgkings322]

C'mon now, that wasn't just Pagan being gone that turned the Giants to shit for that part of the season. There was no Belt, there was no Cain and there was no Panik either if I remember correctly. The Giants managed pretty well without Pagan the last part of the season and in the playoffs. Have some faith in Sabean and the boys. We will find a way to compete.

You do have to agree, though, that the 2015 team right now looks to be the weakest 'post championship' team, worse than 2011 and 2013 for sure. Still moves to be made, however.

Cain was in there during the summer disaster, it wasn't really the pitching that killed us during that stretch (Romo's Coloradopocalypse didn't help), we couldn't score a lick. It was post-Posey 2011, without the stellar pitching.

 

[tzill]

Do you remember how BAD this team was for much of the year last season? We were LITERALLY the worst team in baseball for about a 2-month stretch. We did NOT "do it" without Pagan. We managed once 2B was solved. Also, back surgery is not something that "fixes" someone. It basically makes life manageable. I think it fair to say that Pagan career as a high-level starting-quality OFer is over. We will get out of him whatever we get out of him. He is no longer a major contributor for this team.

Wow...that's awful Eeyore for the beginning of December.

I don't think Oxy is done as a high level contributor, and I even hold out some hope that we get a decent backup out of Scoots.

Timmah, though....broken until proven otherwise.

 

[calsnowskier]

Wow...that's awful Eeyore for the beginning of December.

I don't think Oxy is done as a high level contributor, and I even hold out some hope that we get a decent backup out of Scoots.

Timmah, though....broken until proven otherwise.

Oxy had back surgery. That is not a minor deal. Dr B has stated that back surgeries are the worst kind of surgery. The human body simply does not get better from those things.

Am I "Eeyoring" right now? Yes.

Is the situation salvageable? Yes.

I did not see either of the 2011/2012 trades coming (Pagan and Cabrera), so it is very likely we will get one or two of those types of trades in the coming month.

But as the team looks right now, 2015 will be a rough year. And I am OK with that, as long as corresponding trades take place -- namely, trade the entire bully for young pieces for a '16+ run.

 

[Montalban]

You do have to agree, though, that the 2015 team right now looks to be the weakest 'post championship' team, worse than 2011 and 2013 for sure. Still moves to be made, however.

Cain was in there during the summer disaster, it wasn't really the pitching that killed us during that stretch (Romo's Coloradopocalypse didn't help), we couldn't score a lick. It was post-Posey 2011, without the stellar pitching.

That's what started the whole thing.

 

[Montalban]

Wow...that's awful Eeyore for the beginning of December.

I don't think Oxy is done as a high level contributor, and I even hold out some hope that we get a decent backup out of Scoots.

Timmah, though....broken until proven otherwise.

Third base!

 

[Montalban]

Oxy had back surgery. That is not a minor deal. Dr B has stated that back surgeries are the worst kind of surgery. The human body simply does not get better from those things.

Am I "Eeyoring" right now? Yes.

Is the situation salvageable? Yes.

I did not see either of the 2011/2012 trades coming (Pagan and Cabrera), so it is very likely we will get one or two of those types of trades in the coming month.

But as the team looks right now, 2015 will be a rough year. And I am OK with that, as long as corresponding trades take place -- namely, trade the entire bully for young pieces for a '16+ run.

You have to like the look of the team though for the future with all the young guys either already playing, or about to, play major roles on the team like Posey, Belt, Crawford, Panik, Susac, Bumgarner and Duffy. I still like Perewz too. I always thought he could hit in the Minors. Perhaps he'll get his shot at LF.

 

[jingo]

Put MadBum in left. He's gotta do something to earn his keep when he isn't pitching....or coming in as a reliever.....besides, he swings a good bat....

 

[Stokes1931]

Wow...that's awful Eeyore for the beginning of December.

I don't think Oxy is done as a high level contributor, and I even hold out some hope that we get a decent backup out of Scoots.

Timmah, though....broken until proven otherwise.

Heart of a champion, though.

 

[tzill]

Heart of a champion, though.

Brings his lunchpail to work EVERY day. If I saw him on the street, I'd shake his hand.

Rabbits are furry.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Brings his lunchpail to work EVERY day. If I saw him on the street, I'd shake his hand.

Rabbits are furry.

Timmy has too much hare.

 

[Montalban]

Read that the Dodgers are looking to deal Greinke. I know a good place for him.