Will refs slow down the HUNH offenses this year?

[4down20]

Then my estimate of the refs taking 10 seconds to spot the ball is clearly too long. I was being generous in overestimating this. Shorter spot times only strengthen my argument that going to a shorter play clock will not hamper hurry-up teams since they are already not using the full 40 seconds to put the ball into play. Shorter spot times give them an even larger cushion.

That said, here is a little bit of data/analysis:

In 2007, Oregon finished the season 9-4 while gaining a total of 6078 yards of total offense, averaging 5.9 yards per play (according to that bastion of reliability known as Wikipedia.) That works out to 79 offensive plays per game. Average time of possession 28:37.

In 2008, Oregon finished 10-3 (although the Wikipedia data seem to only include 12 games since the total yards gained divided by the average number of yards per game is only 12 - ain't Wikipedia grand?) while gaining 5738 total yards, averaging 6.5 yards per play. that is 73.6 plays per game. The average TOP is not reported.

Wikipedia does not have the data for the other seasons, although I would love to see it and map how the average number of offensive plays per game has changed for Oregon over the time the new timing rules have been in place.

Anyhow, based on these data, it would be tough to conclude that the change in timing rules in 2008 led to Oregon getting more snaps per game or otherwise gaining an advantage. Obviously there are more variables that can be considered. For example, more data are needed to conclude if their plays are taking more time or not.

I'm not quite sure you actually understand the true advantages the HUNH brings. It's not about number of plays per game.

If it were just about plays per game as you are citing with the data, then the HUNH teams would be better off with the 25 second play clock, because the time between the end of the play and when the ball is set is not active game time, which is why the games take longer. Thus those teams would have the ability to run more plays per game as a result.

The advantage the HUNH brings is that it prevents the defense from substituting. As such, the advantage is more so in how fast it is possible to snap the ball - even if they don't snap the ball that fast. Because the moment the ball is able to be snapped, the defense must be in a position to defend in the event the offense snaps the ball(as they would if the defense wasn't ready).

Tempo, number of plays per game and all that is bullshit for the most part and a deflection of the true benefits. I'm sure they provide some benefits, and players can eventually get tired. But it's not the real reason it gets run.

Hell, Alabama which is one of the "slowest" teams in the country and runs the playclock down all the time could run the "HUNH" if they wanted to and receive the benefits without changing the offense at all. All they have to do is run back to the line and line up, and then prairie dog for the next play and take as much time as they want. Since they have gone immediately back to the line, they are thus forcing the defenses to cover the entire time. That's what OlyDuck is talking about when he says "HUNH doesn't describe the actual offense". Any offense can skip the huddle and run back to the line.

I know it won't happen, but I've been wishing for the past year that Saban would do that for just 1 game to prove that point. Run the clock down to 1 second on every offensive play, but run back to the line after every play to demonstrate the real deal with it all.

 

[nddulac]

I'm not quite sure you actually understand the true advantages the HUNH brings. It's not about number of plays per game.

My entire point was that changing the timing rules from a 40 second play clock back to the old 25 second play clock would not hamper a hurry-up team from playing an up-tempo offensive game. Are you now telling me that I am wrong because the clock/timing doesn't matter?

I guess we'll just have to agree to agree and move on.

 

[4down20]

My entire point was that changing the timing rules from a 40 second play clock back to the old 25 second play clock would not hamper a hurry-up team from playing an up-tempo offensive game. Are you now telling me that I am wrong because the clock/timing doesn't matter?

I guess we'll just have to agree to agree and move on.

I'm pretty sure I just laid it all out for you.

 

[The Crimson King]

Lol at Bama and all their fat guys

 

[nddulac]

The 25 second clock slowed offenses down more because the refs took longer to spot the ball. Refs weren't worried about spotting the ball faster because it didn't affect how much play clock time the offense had left.

I'm pretty sure I just laid it all out for you.

I'm pretty sure you just laid it out for yourself. I have gotten it all along. Execution of a hurry-up offense will not be affected by changing the play clock from 40 seconds back to 25 seconds, as you originally said it would.

 

[4down20]

I'm pretty sure you just laid it out for yourself. I have gotten it all along. Execution of a hurry-up offense will not be affected by changing the play clock from 40 seconds back to 25 seconds, as you originally said it would.

For someone who claims to be a scientist you sure are lacking. I'll just say this much - if they NCAA announced they were changing that, the outrage would be huge and I would be happy. It would be like:

 

[4down20]

Lol at Bama and all their fat guys

How you get 4 teams as favorites?

Barners always cheating.

Edit: Figured it out. Sneaky cheating barner.

 

[pennstatenut]

I can't even tell you how many 1st downs have been assumed because of offenses using the HUNH. And how many embarrassing, unnecessary false starts result from it. It completely ruins the fundamentals of the game.


My only question to HUNH fans is this... How effective is your offensive scheme when you are not trying to snap the ball 15 seconds after the previous play? Could you run the offense with the same efficiency if you "milked" the clock? Or do you prefer the backyard bullshit of "Hurry Billy, say hut, they aren't ready!!!" Seems to me that the only advantage a HUNH team WANTS to have is the element of surprise. It's like X's and O's are irrelevant to HUNH teams. IMHO, fear instills a team when it can't beat another team by out scheming it, but rather trying to kick it while it's down.


There is a reason that shooting doves off of a power line is illegal. No, it's not because of the electrical hazard. It's because you have to give the doves a fighting chance.

How dare an offense try to surprise a defense? Let's just make flea flickers, the end around, draw plays, screen passes and any other form of offensive trickery illegal.

Teams have a fighting chance. It's called being prepared. How come Les Miles and many other coaches say it isn't a problem? Maybe it's because they are prepared.

 

[tometom]

i personally don't see a problem with it. Just like players, refs need to be in position before a play starts. It's written in the rules that the defense gets to substitute if the offense substitutes, so these NUNH teams just need to stop substituting, then the refs don't have to allow the defense to sub.

i personally don't think this would have much impact on the NUNH offenses at all. maybe 1 or 2 plays a game they have to wait like 1 extra second. I just don't think the impact is as big as some of you are making it out to be.

 

[occupant]

BUT OUR FATTIES CAN'T KEEP UP!!!

DON'T YALL CARE???

CHANGE THE RULES TO FIT OUR GAMEPLAN OR WE'LL CRY REAL HARD!!!

 

[Codaxx]

I can't even tell you how many 1st downs have been assumed because of offenses using the HUNH. And how many embarrassing, unnecessary false starts result from it. It completely ruins the fundamentals of the game.


My only question to HUNH fans is this... How effective is your offensive scheme when you are not trying to snap the ball 15 seconds after the previous play? Could you run the offense with the same efficiency if you "milked" the clock? Or do you prefer the backyard bullshit of "Hurry Billy, say hut, they aren't ready!!!" Seems to me that the only advantage a HUNH team WANTS to have is the element of surprise. It's like X's and O's are irrelevant to HUNH teams. IMHO, fear instills a team when it can't beat another team by out scheming it, but rather trying to kick it while it's down.


There is a reason that shooting doves off of a power line is illegal. No, it's not because of the electrical hazard. It's because you have to give the doves a fighting chance.

There is so much BS is this post. The HUNH is predicated on fundamentals. The playbooks are smaller, in fact, Baylor doesnt even have a playbook. The entire focus is on running a precise scheme and mastering the plays.

The backyard BS is nonsense. The basis of the HUNH is simple. Our 11 guys can execute better than your 11 guys. You want to throw 250LBs out there, well lets see them in space. You want to go dime, well lets see how they do against the inside zone. If you have players that are fundamentally sound vs the run and pass, you can stop the HUNH. If you rely on recruiting and having specialist across your defense, you are in trouble.

 

[TexasExes98]

How dare an offense try to surprise a defense? Let's just make flea flickers, the end around, draw plays, screen passes and any other form of offensive trickery illegal.

Teams have a fighting chance. It's called being prepared. How come Les Miles and many other coaches say it isn't a problem? Maybe it's because they are prepared.

Right here ^^^^^ Time for Saban and Smart to swallow their prides and beg Lester to reveal his scheme on how to stop Aggy.....

 

[4down20]

How dare an offense try to surprise a defense? Let's just make flea flickers, the end around, draw plays, screen passes and any other form of offensive trickery illegal.

Teams have a fighting chance. It's called being prepared. How come Les Miles and many other coaches say it isn't a problem? Maybe it's because they are prepared.

Les Miles is too busy complaining about the schedule and probably doesn't even know what the HUNH is.

 

[nddulac]

How come Les Miles and many other coaches say it isn't a problem?

I thought it was because it cuts down on his chances to mess up clock-management at the end of a game.

 

[4down20]

There is so much BS is this post. The HUNH is predicated on fundamentals. The playbooks are smaller, in fact, Baylor doesnt even have a playbook. The entire focus is on running a precise scheme and mastering the plays.

The backyard BS is nonsense. The basis of the HUNH is simple. Our 11 guys can execute better than your 11 guys. You want to throw 250LBs out there, well lets see them in space. You want to go dime, well lets see how they do against the inside zone. If you have players that are fundamentally sound vs the run and pass, you can stop the HUNH. If you rely on recruiting and having specialist across your defense, you are in trouble.

The HUNH is not a scheme.

 

[MarkOU]

Offenses that rely on trying to catch defenses out of position are horrible for the game.

Would you prefer me to fax or email you your opponents play book?



What a retarded statement sir. If you don't like fast offenses I suggest you demand your program recruit less fat asses to play defense.

 

[TigerBait1971]

 

[4down20]

Would you prefer me to fax or email you your opponents play book?

What a retarded statement sir. If you don't like fast offenses I suggest you demand your program recruit less fat asses to play defense.

Email is more modern, so let's go with that. Address: [email protected]

As I mentioned later, I was talking about before the snap and not allowing people to line up properly, not after.

 

[Codaxx]

The HUNH is not a scheme.

oddly nobody called HUNH a scheme.

 

[yeodonie]

I guess you'll need to suck it up and deal with it.

Or are you suggesting a rules change?

I'm suggesting they do their fucking jobs and get lined up. The refs should not be responsible for setting the pace of a game. The rules don't say they get to take as much time as they want.

I get that Bama fan doesn't like it. You're 18-0 vs teams that take longer than 23 seconds to snap the ball in the last couple years. All losses are against teams that move fast. Oh but it's "safety...."