Who Would You Rather Have Backing Up Big Ben?

[Yo Tee]

exactly u dimwit.......u failed to see the complete irony and idiocy of the comment. Clearly you still do.

So the argument to prove that Jameis is a winner is to show me that he's won a Natty and a Heisman? Tell me again how that's made him a winner in the NFL.

how has it helped cam?

Who said that it did? I don't remember anyone saying that it helped Cam, but I do remember a moron saying that it helped Jameis.

really your going with the won more games argument.......and hes won an mvp with his legs. i didnt think u had much beyond a long winded reply saying nothing, called it.

Yeah, because all I said was Cam has won more games than Jameis. Might wanna read it again. Playoff experience, playoff wins, division titles, NFC titles, Super Bowl appearance. Keep up, dimwit.

 

[Yo Tee]

Anyone but Mason.

Now that Jameis and Andy are a done deal, who would you pick up? Any FA left that would fill that spot for you? I haven't seen an existing FA out there that does it for me.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Now that Jameis and Andy are a done deal, who would you pick up? Any FA left that would fill that spot for you? I haven't seen an existing FA out there that does it for me.

Well I think you need to adjust your lenses a bit & refocus on your priorities of a backup QB. What I'm lookin for is someone that could be capable of moving the chains & playing game-manager... Serviceable... Not someone that we would have to rely on to put the team on his back in come-from-behind fashion. This championship caliber defense doesn't need that. They just need someone that can move the chains, death by 100 1st-downs style...

Matt Moore
Joe Flacco

Dreadful names on paper... But looking at this team & supporting cast, they'd do just fine. Hell, if we're simply looking at UPGRADING Mason Rudolph then I could kick Trevor Siemien & Mike Glennon into the mix.

None of those names are sexy, but they'd surely kick Duck off the team & give Mason the necessary competition to make the entire QB group better. Jussayin!

 

[Yo Tee]

just give him time to develop.

You act like that is such an out of the box idea.

Josh Allen's rookie year was trash. Look at what he did last year. He took the Bills to the playoffs for the first time since 95.
Jared Goff's rookie year was trash. Every year since then he's gotten better and better and even went to the Super Bowl.
Jimmy Garoppolo was given 3 years to learn behind Brady and he just played in the Super Bowl.
Aaron Rodgers was given 3 years to learn behind Favre. His first year as starter was trash. Since then, oh, only 2 MVP awards and a Super Bowl.

Quit treating this whole "give him time to develop" idea as if it's NEVER been done before. Get over the fact that Mason and Duck aren't Mahomes, Brady, Ben, Brees and Russell Wilson.

 

[Yo Tee]

Well I think you need to adjust your lenses a bit & refocus on your priorities of a backup QB. What I'm lookin for is someone that could be capable of moving the chains & playing game-manager... Serviceable... Not someone that we would have to rely on to put the team on his back in come-from-behind fashion. This championship caliber defense doesn't need that. They just need someone that can move the chains, death by 100 1st-downs style...

Matt Moore
Joe Flacco

Dreadful names on paper... But looking at this team & supporting cast, they'd do just fine. Hell, if we're simply looking at UPGRADING Mason Rudolph then I could kick Trevor Siemien & Mike Glennon into the mix.

None of those names are sexy, but they'd surely kick Duck off the team & give Mason the necessary competition to make the entire QB group better. Jussayin!

I don't think we just need a backup QB though. In my opinion, Ben only has 2 years left in him. From now til then, we have to find his replacement. We cant sign a FA QB to fit immediate needs. We need to sign/draft/develop someone to take over the starting job once Ben retires. Moore and Flacco don't do it for me. Flacco makes me more comfortable than Jameis and Andy for sure.

My worry is that we sign a vet, a 6-10 year vet, Ben takes at most 3 years to retire and where are we? We have a 8-12 year vet as our starting QB and we are back looking for a QB of the future. We either need to draft someone in the 1st or 2nd, sign a younger FA QB next year or we gotta stick with what we have and develop them.

We've drafted 5 QBs since 2005, all in the 3rd or later. Omar Jacobs, Dennis Dixon, Landry Jones, Joshua Dobbs and Mason Rudolph. From 1981-2004, we drafted 2 QBs in round 1 or 2 of the draft. Kordell Stewart and Ben Roethlisberger. Say what you want about Kordell Stewart, but half of the 6 years he started for us (97, 00 and 01) were pretty good. The rest, forgettable, for sure. Seems to me that we need to draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd if we're looking to draft a QB for the future.

In terms of Free Agency, looking at next year, you have Dak Prescott, Jacoby Brissett, Tyrod Taylor and AJ McCarron as the top names. Is Jacoby a guy we try to pick up? Obviously this is with Rivers staying another year. Do we entertain McCarron as a cheap option? Do we go even cheaper and younger with someone like Kyle Allen? 2021, Lynch, Barrett AND Hodges are free agents.

Just talking about this right now, our QB situation is such a SHIT SHOW lol.

 

[SteelersPride]

You act like that is such an out of the box idea.

Josh Allen's rookie year was trash. Look at what he did last year. He took the Bills to the playoffs for the first time since 95.
Jared Goff's rookie year was trash. Every year since then he's gotten better and better and even went to the Super Bowl.
Jimmy Garoppolo was given 3 years to learn behind Brady and he just played in the Super Bowl.
Aaron Rodgers was given 3 years to learn behind Favre. His first year as starter was trash. Since then, oh, only 2 MVP awards and a Super Bowl.

Quit treating this whole "give him time to develop" idea as if it's NEVER been done before. Get over the fact that Mason and Duck aren't Mahomes, Brady, Ben, Brees and Russell Wilson.

lolololol josh allen and jimmy g are fools gold, delve into their stats....yowza

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I don't think we just need a backup QB though. In my opinion, Ben only has 2 years left in him. From now til then, we have to find his replacement. We cant sign a FA QB to fit immediate needs. We need to sign/draft/develop someone to take over the starting job once Ben retires. Moore and Flacco don't do it for me. Flacco makes me more comfortable than Jameis and Andy for sure.

My worry is that we sign a vet, a 6-10 year vet, Ben takes at most 3 years to retire and where are we? We have a 8-12 year vet as our starting QB and we are back looking for a QB of the future. We either need to draft someone in the 1st or 2nd, sign a younger FA QB next year or we gotta stick with what we have and develop them.

We've drafted 5 QBs since 2005, all in the 3rd or later. Omar Jacobs, Dennis Dixon, Landry Jones, Joshua Dobbs and Mason Rudolph. From 1981-2004, we drafted 2 QBs in round 1 or 2 of the draft. Kordell Stewart and Ben Roethlisberger. Say what you want about Kordell Stewart, but half of the 6 years he started for us (97, 00 and 01) were pretty good. The rest, forgettable, for sure. Seems to me that we need to draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd if we're looking to draft a QB for the future.

In terms of Free Agency, looking at next year, you have Dak Prescott, Jacoby Brissett, Tyrod Taylor and AJ McCarron as the top names. Is Jacoby a guy we try to pick up? Obviously this is with Rivers staying another year. Do we entertain McCarron as a cheap option? Do we go even cheaper and younger with someone like Kyle Allen? 2021, Lynch, Barrett AND Hodges are free agents.

Just talking about this right now, our QB situation is such a SHIT SHOW lol.

I'm confused... I thought you were pro-developing Mason? At any rate, you're kinda contradicting yourself here. You complain of the shit show that is this QB group right now, yet you want to groom someone for 3-years down the road to take over?

If you want relief, then why not sign a vet that could take over THIS YEAR if necessary, and give Mason more time to develop? Sounds like a win-win for your arguments thus far. What better way to get immediate returns on a SHIT SHOW group?

All of these FA QBs are signing for 1-yr deals anyway. So anyone they would have signed should be viewed as a 1-yr loaner. Outside of trading for someone I don't think any of the potential names in the "develop" pool between FA now & 2021 are going to be franchise caliber players... So I'll say it again, you need to refocus on your backup QB viewpoint.

 

[Yo Tee]

lolololol josh allen and jimmy g are fools gold, delve into their stats....yowza

Not really looking at individual stats, moreso what they have brought to their teams. Josh Allen made the playoffs last year, we didn't. Jimmy G played in a Super Bowl last year, we didn't. Both QBs and teams are improving with them as the starter. But yeah, fools gold.

But, if you want to bring individual stats into it, last year, Jimmy G had almost 70% accuracy, 27 TDs to 13 INTs, almost 4,000 yards and had a QB rating of 102. Where Josh Allen lacks as a pocket passer, he makes up for in his mobility. 20 passing TDs which is quite low, but he rushed for 9 TDs. When you look at how both QBs have progressed since becoming a starting QB, that's the type of growth and development we need with Mason and Duck. But at the end of the day, both Allen and Garoppolo are leading their teams to where Pittsburgh needs to be. Winning games and going to the playoffs.

Oh, sorry, was this too winded of a response for you?

 

[Yo Tee]

I'm confused... I thought you were pro-developing Mason? At any rate, you're kinda contradicting yourself here. You complain of the shit show that is this QB group right now, yet you want to groom someone for 3-years down the road to take over?

If you want relief, then why not sign a vet that could take over THIS YEAR if necessary, and give Mason more time to develop? Sounds like a win-win for your arguments thus far. What better way to get immediate returns on a SHIT SHOW group?

All of these FA QBs are signing for 1-yr deals anyway. So anyone they would have signed should be viewed as a 1-yr loaner. Outside of trading for someone I don't think any of the potential names in the "develop" pool between FA now & 2021 are going to be franchise caliber players... So I'll say it again, you need to refocus on your backup QB viewpoint.

I am pro-developing Mason. But I'm trying to have a conversation with someone with differing opinions and trying to see their point of view and trying to look at it from the other perspective. I get shit for saying other people's opinions aren't right and I get shit for entertaining other people's opinions. Fuck me, right?

 

[SteelersPride]

Not really looking at individual stats, moreso what they have brought to their teams. Josh Allen made the playoffs last year, we didn't. Jimmy G played in a Super Bowl last year, we didn't. Both QBs and teams are improving with them as the starter. But yeah, fools gold.

But, if you want to bring individual stats into it, last year, Jimmy G had almost 70% accuracy, 27 TDs to 13 INTs, almost 4,000 yards and had a QB rating of 102. Where Josh Allen lacks as a pocket passer, he makes up for in his mobility. 20 passing TDs which is quite low, but he rushed for 9 TDs. When you look at how both QBs have progressed since becoming a starting QB, that's the type of growth and development we need with Mason and Duck. But at the end of the day, both Allen and Garoppolo are leading their teams to where Pittsburgh needs to be. Winning games and going to the playoffs.

Oh, sorry, was this too winded of a response for you?

like i said delve into the stats, not just box scores.......when u do, lemme know.

 

[Yo Tee]

like i said delve into the stats, not just box scores.......when u do, lemme know.

Did already and I already let you know. Agree to disagree. But let's stop acting like letting young QBs develop has never been done before.

 

[jwolt92]

How has his BCS title and Heisman Trophy award helped him in the NFL?

How does it make him "not a winner"? What has Big Ben won recently?

 

[Yo Tee]

How does it make him "not a winner"? What has Big Ben won recently?

First, you are really trying to put a time limit on achievements to help your argument? lol
Second, it doesn't make him a winner because his achievement in 1 college year didn't translate at all to the NFL.
Thirdly (and this is a completely ridiculous comparison that I shouldn't even entertain):

In the last 5 years (not including last year for Ben due to missing the entire season):

Ben Roethlisberger - 2 division titles, 3 playoff appearances, 3 playoff wins, 1 AFC title game appearance, 4 Pro Bowls, 49-22-1, led the league in passing yards twice and INTs once.
Jameis Winston - 0 division titles, 0 playoff appearances, 0 playoff wins, 0 NFC title game appearances, 1 Pro Bowl, 28-42, led the league in passing yards once and INTs once.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I am pro-developing Mason. But I'm trying to have a conversation with someone with differing opinions and trying to see their point of view and trying to look at it from the other perspective. I get shit for saying other people's opinions aren't right and I get shit for entertaining other people's opinions. Fuck me, right?

I haven't been following close enough to figure it out... Nothing wrong with opinions so long as your aren't crass about it &/or preaching it as gospel. Just don't flip flop or redirect to suit your needs.

 

[jwolt92]

First, you are really trying to put a time limit on achievements to help your argument? lol
Second, it doesn't make him a winner because his achievement in 1 college year didn't translate at all to the NFL.
Thirdly (and this is a completely ridiculous comparison that I shouldn't even entertain):

In the last 5 years (not including last year for Ben due to missing the entire season):

Ben Roethlisberger - 2 division titles, 3 playoff appearances, 3 playoff wins, 1 AFC title game appearance, 4 Pro Bowls, 49-22-1, led the league in passing yards twice and INTs once.
Jameis Winston - 0 division titles, 0 playoff appearances, 0 playoff wins, 0 NFC title game appearances, 1 Pro Bowl, 28-42, led the league in passing yards once and INTs once.

Oh so you're the kind of person who thinks the QB is solely responsible for wins and losses?

Are you also ignoring the fact that Jameis couldn't see for years?

To answer your first question, you're the one who disregarded his college achievements by saying he "isn't a winner."

Have you considered offensive line play? Defense? How often did Jameis have to play from behind because of a bad defense? I'm not saying he's the GOAT and should be starting over everybody, but to dismiss a young QB with a spectacular arm is just asinine because he's "not a winner"

 

[SteelersPride]

Oh so you're the kind of person who thinks the QB is solely responsible for wins and losses?

Are you also ignoring the fact that Jameis couldn't see for years?

To answer your first question, you're the one who disregarded his college achievements by saying he "isn't a winner."

Have you considered offensive line play? Defense? How often did Jameis have to play from behind because of a bad defense? I'm not saying he's the GOAT and should be starting over everybody, but to dismiss a young QB with a spectacular arm is just asinine because he's "not a winner"

well since i cant back up my mouth either.....

Jimmy Garoppolo
69.1% completion percentage 5th best in the nfl
27 TD's tied for 5th best in the NFL
13 Int's
36 sacks taken 14th most
102 QB rating 7th best
58.8 QBR 12th best

Some advanced stats.
Completed air yards- 5.4-28th
Intended air yards-6.5 3rd worst of any qb all season
Average Air Yards Differential-1.1 lowest in the NFL
Aggressiveness rating 15.3%-25th
Air Yards to the sticks -2.5 - 2nd lowest in the NFL
29th in deep ball attempts also #1 in deep ball completions....
4th best support cast efficiency
27th in pass attempt distance
22nd in money throws
#7 in interceptable passes
#7 in danger plays
3rd most YAC in the NFL Over 50% of his yards...
15 of his 27 touchdowns in 4 games....

which means he averaged 1 per game the other 12
6 games with 200 or less passing yards.
10 games with 253 or less passing yards

There are some stats that tell a better story. besides the box score

 

[Superbelt]

I picked Mason, but I hope Lynch shows up in camp and displaces both of the retards that were behind center last year.

At least for something passable that can survive Ben being out for a few quarters. With a full camp, if there is one, I hope he can push Mason to 3rd, and Duck to PS.

I would have been happy with Jameis, but that didn't happen. I'd rather not waste time with someone like Dalton. I don't think he'd perform much better than any of the other scrubs, really.

I'm just in roll the dice and cross fingers on Ben having a healthy year.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I picked Mason, but I hope Lynch shows up in camp and displaces both of the retards that were behind center last year.

At least for something passable that can survive Ben being out for a few quarters. With a full camp, if there is one, I hope he can push Mason to 3rd, and Duck to PS.

I would have been happy with Jameis, but that didn't happen. I'd rather not waste time with someone like Dalton. I don't think he'd perform much better than any of the other scrubs, really.

I'm just in roll the dice and cross fingers on Ben having a healthy year.

Lynch displacing everyone beneath Ben would be ideal at this point. Hell I'd even be curious to see what sort of waves JT Barrett can make in camp... If they don't just outright switch him to WR.


Just desperate for any glimmer of hope aside from Duck...

 

[Superbelt]

Lynch displacing everyone beneath Ben would be ideal at this point. Hell I'd even be curious to see what sort of waves JT Barrett can make in camp... If they don't just outright switch him to WR.


Just desperate for any glimmer of hope aside from Duck...

I hope they can have a real, full camp.

If they can't, we can all expect them to go hyper-conservative and make as few changes as possible to the depth chart.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I hope they can have a real, full camp.

If they can't, we can all expect them to go hyper-conservative and make as few changes as possible to the depth chart.

No doubt. It's bad enough that rookie camps got cancelled (think of all the UDFA hopefuls that won't get a proper shot), but if all camps get cancelled the league should at least expand the PS's to 15-20 helmets... Seems cruel not to give all that talent a better look.