Who is your current MVP? Pre-Week 15.

[fightinfunbags]

Here's what you don't understand. I looked at both PM & JH's total yards but didn't mention it because PM has more passing yards (4,160) than Hurts has total yards. Here are the numbers.


PM- 4,440 & 35 total TD's

JH- 3,843 & 32 total TD's


"just tell the whole story"

I have. But you don't wanna hear any of it.

Fans can be biased. But the numbers never are.

Yikes. You want to compare rush yards and pass yards? The average NFL completed pass is two or three times as long as the average NFL run. At Clayton is right (and this is your habitual mistake) these guys are two entirely different players with two entirely different games it’s foolish to think a purely statistical comparison is going to settle this. The people who lean solely on stats to make sports arguments are likely the guys who played JV soccer as a senior in high school. They don’t know what they’re looking at so they have to lean exclusively on stats. You did the same thing with Embiid and Jokic and even was pulling stats out of your ass that made it seem like Jokic was a better defensive player than Embiid when everyone knows when the playoffs start offenses isolate Jokic and make him play defense because his fat ass can’t cover anybody.

 

[Anointed One]

Its gotta be mahomes or hurts right? Tua there too. Tyreek hill and justin jefferson should get a mention. Josh jacobs eould on a better team.

Odds have it overwhelmingly mahomes or hurts. Burrow third choice on draft kings.

I wouldn't give any consideration to Tua at this point... Tyreek Hill is the reason he's looked good imo... I think Hill definitely should get considerations...

Hurts
Mahomes
Hill

would be my top 3

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Nobody is talking about the Vikings and they’re undefeated against the AFC’s best division the AFC East. The Cowboys and Eagles both dominated the Vikings. The NFC East is the best division in football and will likely get at least 3 teams in the playoffs with the possibility of the Giants sneaking in if Seattle continues to falter or Detroit doesn’t stay hot.


Jalen Hurts is the MVP but people are viewing him as a one year wonder. They’re diminishing what he’s done because the team around him is well constructed. I’m fine with him getting snubbed. We fans gain little joy for an MVP award, especially relative to a Super Bowl. The team of the MVP winner hasn’t won a Super Bowl since 1999. Somebody else can have the honor Hurts has earned. He’s the best player and QB on the league’s best regular season team. History says based on that, he’s the MVP.

I disagree with the NFC East being one of the best divisions in football. I think the Eagles and Cowboys are good teams, regardless who they played and both are legit playoff / superbowl contenders on that side of the league. AFC South, NFC South and their own division. I woudn't classify the Giants or Commanders as playoff teams...I would barely even suggest they are good football teams. Now, you can only play who you are scheduled to play..you can't fault a team for that, but when it comes to team capabilities...I would take the Chiefs/Bills/Bengals over any team in the NFC...with a close call on the 49ers. Eagles I think will make it to the NFC Championship, I think they lose to the 49ers. Once the Eagles have to play a team like these 4 teams, they will be in trouble, because they have feasted on inferior teams this year and I don't think they are battle hardened like the AFC is.

Hurts is having a great season, and as I said, Mahomes/Hurts should be considered a tie right now for MVP, with Burrow a close contender right now. RIGHT NOW. If the Bengals win out and get that #1 seed, I don't care what Hurts does, Burrow will win the award, because of his conference, SOS, what they have done down the stretch and how he had to over come lots of adversity with injuries on offense, his own surgery, and his offensive line taking forever to gel. Jalen has maybe the best offensive line in the NFL. He has a scary good defense. He has a team surrounding him that keeps from focusing solely on Jalen. Burrow has a lot of that same scenario, but he has been missing guys on offense all year with an offensive line that was on pace at one point to give up 72 sacks.

If Hurts keeps doing what he is doing and beats Dallas handedly, I can see it being a close vote with it going either way. Let's see how Jalen does against a good defense in Dallas with all their pressure first.

As I said, as week 15 arrives, Burrow is rightly 3rd on this list, the situation may be different at the end of the year.

 

[PDay8810]

the situation may be different at the end of the year.

well, this is one concept.

 

[molsaniceman]

no love for jacobs just cause hes on a bad team

 

[Wamu]

Yikes. You want to compare rush yards and pass yards? The average NFL completed pass is two or three times as long as the average NFL run. At Clayton is right (and this is your habitual mistake) these guys are two entirely different players with two entirely different games it’s foolish to think a purely statistical comparison is going to settle this. The people who lean solely on stats to make sports arguments are likely the guys who played JV soccer as a senior in high school. They don’t know what they’re looking at so they have to lean exclusively on stats. You did the same thing with Embiid and Jokic and even was pulling stats out of your ass that made it seem like Jokic was a better defensive player than Embiid when everyone knows when the playoffs start offenses isolate Jokic and make him play defense because his fat ass can’t cover anybody.

Move those goal posts!!! Deflection-deflection-deflection!!!

Jokic & Embiid have nothing to do with comparing PM & JH's numbers this season. Try to stay on topic.

I never once said Jokic was a better defensive player than Embiid. Now pay attention. All I said was Jokic had his best defensive season of his career last year.

And I haven't badmouthed Hurts in any way. I just think Mahomes is having a better statistical season. And the head to head numbers back that up.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

no love for jacobs just cause hes on a bad team

There are a lot of players worthy of consideration but for some reason this seems to be a QB driven award.

I would put Josh Jacobs, Micah Parsons, Justin Jefferson, Tyreek Hill on this list as well.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I disagree with the NFC East being one of the best divisions in football. I think the Eagles and Cowboys are good teams, regardless who they played and both are legit playoff / superbowl contenders on that side of the league. AFC South, NFC South and their own division. I woudn't classify the Giants or Commanders as playoff teams...I would barely even suggest they are good football teams. Now, you can only play who you are scheduled to play..you can't fault a team for that, but when it comes to team capabilities...I would take the Chiefs/Bills/Bengals over any team in the NFC...with a close call on the 49ers. Eagles I think will make it to the NFC Championship, I think they lose to the 49ers. Once the Eagles have to play a team like these 4 teams, they will be in trouble, because they have feasted on inferior teams this year and I don't think they are battle hardened like the AFC is.

Hurts is having a great season, and as I said, Mahomes/Hurts should be considered a tie right now for MVP, with Burrow a close contender right now. RIGHT NOW. If the Bengals win out and get that #1 seed, I don't care what Hurts does, Burrow will win the award, because of his conference, SOS, what they have done down the stretch and how he had to over come lots of adversity with injuries on offense, his own surgery, and his offensive line taking forever to gel. Jalen has maybe the best offensive line in the NFL. He has a scary good defense. He has a team surrounding him that keeps from focusing solely on Jalen. Burrow has a lot of that same scenario, but he has been missing guys on offense all year with an offensive line that was on pace at one point to give up 72 sacks.

If Hurts keeps doing what he is doing and beats Dallas handedly, I can see it being a close vote with it going either way. Let's see how Jalen does against a good defense in Dallas with all their pressure first.

As I said, as week 15 arrives, Burrow is rightly 3rd on this list, the situation may be different at the end of the year.

You lost me when you said the NFC East isn’t one of the best divisions in football because it is. The Redskins are 5-1-1 since Heineke took over. So if the Giants are the bottom of the division you have to admit that they’ve over achieved. You are what your record says you are.

 

[fightinfunbags]

no love for jacobs just cause hes on a bad team

If this was the NBA he’d be set. In that league you win MVPs these days for being the only good player on an also ran.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Move those goal posts!!! Deflection-deflection-deflection!!!

Jokic & Embiid have nothing to do with comparing PM & JH's numbers this season. Try to stay on topic.

I never once said Jokic was a better defensive player than Embiid. Now pay attention. All I said was Jokic had his best defensive season of his career last year.

And I haven't badmouthed Hurts in any way. I just think Mahomes is having a better statistical season. And the head to head numbers back that up.

Correct. I only brought up Embiid Jokic as it pertains to you and the huge blind spot you create because all you consider stats.

 

[Wamu]

Correct. I only brought up Embiid Jokic as it pertains to you and the huge blind spot you create because all you consider stats.

And what do two NBA players have to do with a discussion about two NFL qb's? Absolutely nothing.

The thing is when the stats favor a player you like those stats are legit. But when those same stats don't favor your guy then those stats mean nothing to you.

Also very odd you outright lied and incorrectly claimed I said Jokic is a better defender than Embiid.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

You lost me when you said the NFC East isn’t one of the best divisions in football because it is. The Redskins are 5-1-1 since Heineke took over. So if the Giants are the bottom of the division you have to admit that they’ve over achieved. You are what your record says you are.

Your record is what your record is, that doesn't mean you are better than a 8-5 or 9-4 team from the opposing conference who has had to play a tougher SOS.

Eagles Schedule

@ Detroit - Eagles win 38-35 (this was week one when Detroit was still trying to figure out how to play football as a team
Minnesota - You beat Minnesota at home. You classify this a good win, but the Vikes have a -1 point differential as a 10-3 team. Only team in NFL history to do that.
@ Washington - Once again, you are a much better team that Washington and this as you say, was before Heineke took over.
Jacksonville - Once again, this is at home against a team that has only recently started playing NFL football the last few weeks.
@ Arizona - Arizona has not been playing good football all year long. Squeeked it out by 3.
Dallas - This was a good solid win, but you were also facing Cooper Rush as he was declining after a fast start.
Pittsburgh - Pittsburgh is starting to play good ball as of late, but they were not at this time.
@ Houston - Worst team in the NFL.
Washington - Lost to a Commanders team that is average and when Heineke had just become starter again.
@ Indy - 1 of the 5 worst teams in football, and you won last second by a point.
Green Bay - Edged out GB, a team that has been a shambles this year.
Tennessee - This was a really good win. Just beat the pants off a good team on your own field.
@ Giants - While I don't classify the Giants as anything more than an average team at best, you beat the crap out of them, so great win.

The only games I classify you having a quality win in: Dallas, Tennessee and @ Giants. A good team like Philly should have a 12-1 record right now against that schedule.

Let's see how you do against Dallas at full strength in two weeks. The other 3 games are worthless against the Saints, Giants and Bears.

If the Bengals win out by chance, they will have had quality wins against:

Kansas City (playoff team fighting for #1 seed)
Buffalo (playoff team fighting for #1 seed)
Miami (playoff team)
New England (potential playoff team)
NY Jets (before being depleted) (potential playoff team)
Baltimore (Playoff team)
Tennessee (Playoff team, but maybe the weakest of this group - who happens to be one of your 3 quality wins)

Yes, this is my personal point of view, but I also believe it is a known fact that the AFC is the stronger conference overall. I am not saying that Hurts doesn't deserve top consideration for MVP right now, but I am also saying, let's see the whole body of work, and the adversity each player had to deal with first before the tally is calculated.

 

[fightinfunbags]

And what do two NBA players have to do with a discussion about two NFL qb's? Absolutely nothing.

The thing is when the stats favor a player you like those stats are legit. But when those same stats don't favor your guy then those stats mean nothing to you.

Also very odd you outright lied and incorrectly claimed I said Jokic is a better defender than Embiid.

I already told you. And I’ve been very consistent in criticizing purely analytical analysts in sports.

 

[Clayton]

no love for jacobs just cause hes on a bad team

Are the Raiders a winless team without him? Jacobs has been crazy good this year.

With Mahomes in the past, many of his Ints last year were balls that just sort of bounced of Hill's hands and were bad luck. This year its just more about the NFL changing their defenses to fight against the Chiefs, Bills, and Bengals. This year is pretty much a perfect storm for the Eagles and Hurts.

I will say that if Mahomes isnt the MVP then there should be a ton of credit going to Andy Reid, Eric Bieniemy, and Matt Nagy. Maybe nobody wants Bieniemy and Nagy as a head coach but they are exactly where they need to be.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

There can be several on the list for MVP but realistically only 3 have a chance.

Hurts & Mahomes I believe control their own destiny at winning depending on how they play the next 4 games.
Joe Burrow could steal it if they both falter the last quarter of the season.
Allen, Jefferson & Hill may get mentioned but wont get any votes. IMO.

 

[ducky]

No you aren’t. You’re just picking the numbers that benefit Mahomes. Where are the rushing yards? And fumbles aren’t turnovers unless they’re lost fumbles. Just tell the whole story.

Here is the stat that you need to see.....

The Chiefs with Mahomes has scored the same amount of points with less talent on offense against better competition than Hurts has scored with the Eagles much better offense against lesser competition.

You can pull out all the stats that you want. All things being equal, Mahomes is way more important to his team than Hurts is to his and playing better to boot. Take Mahomes off the Chiefs and they arent a good offense and dont make the playoffs. Put Minshew in this year and the Eagles are still likely a playoff team.

That isnt to say Hurts hasnt had a great year. He absolutely is. It just tells you where Mahomes is at. Mahomes is just on another level than any QB that we have seen in this league. You can disagree if you want but to get all pissy about it is just being a homer. Mahomes flat out is having an MVP type of year.

Eagle fans want to have it both ways. They want to pimp everyone on their roster as being good (and they are right about that). But they also want to say that Hurts is the best QB this year. He's not. Mahomes still is. He is doing just as well with lesser talent.

Again this really comes down to Mahomes has a trophy and Hurts doesn't and that the Eagles will have a slightly better record as a team. So Hurts will win. Voters tend to lean towards guys that dont have the trophy. That's why MJ didnt win 10 MVP trophies. And for some reason the voters always think the guy with 14 wins must be better than the guy with 12 wins regardless of roster talent.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Here is the stat that you need to see.....

The Chiefs with Mahomes has scored the same amount of points with less talent on offense against better competition than Hurts has scored with the Eagles much better offense against lesser competition.

You can pull out all the stats that you want. All things being equal, Mahomes is way more important to his team than Hurts is to his and playing better to boot. Take Mahomes off the Chiefs and they arent a good offense and dont make the playoffs. Put Minshew in this year and the Eagles are still likely a playoff team.

That isnt to say Hurts hasnt had a great year. It just tells you where Mahomes is at. Mahomes is just on another level than any QB that we have seen in this league. You can disagree if you want but to get all pissy about it is just being a homer. Mahomes flat out is having an MVP type of year.

Eagle fans want to have it both ways. They want to pimp everyone on their roster as being good (and they are right about that). But they also want to say that Hurts is the best QB this year. He's not. Mahomes still is. He is doing just as well with lesser talent.

Again this really comes down to Mahomes has a trophy and Hurts doesn't and that the Eagles will have a slightly better record as a team. So Hurts will win. Voters tend to lean towards guys that dont have the trophy. That's why MJ didnt win 10 MVP trophies. And for some reason the voters always think the guy with 14 wins must be better than the guy with 12 wins regardless of roster talent.

The Eagles would have the number 2 rush offense in the league with Minshew? Minshew's feet would dictate coverages played against the Eagles? Defenses would have to account for Minshew keep on every run action? Minshew would be the same leader in the locker room? We can agree to disagree on Mahomes/Hurts but this narrative of they don't skip a beat with Minshew is nonsense.

 

[cincygrad]

Burrow would be in the discussion if the Bengals somehow won out.... The argument would be stats (not as good as Mahomes but better than most everyone else), and head-to-head victories over Mahomes, Allen, Tua, and Lamar. I think for there to be any chance at this hypothetical scenario to happen, Burrow would need to win a memorable shoot-out against Allen on MNF on 1/2. This would occur when Hurts is presumably resting for the playoffs. The recency bias would come into play.

Too many factors to be realistic - I think Hurts is the chalk pic right now.

Mahomes is reaching the Michael Jordan status.... He's the best player every year and the most valuable player in the league by far, but he won't win the MVP every year.

 

[ducky]

The Eagles would have the number 2 rush offense in the league with Minshew? Minshew's feet would dictate coverages played against the Eagles? Defenses would have to account for Minshew keep on every run action? Minshew would be the same leader in the locker room? We can agree to disagree on Mahomes/Hurts but this narrative of they don't skip a beat with Minshew is nonsense.

So you dont think the Eagles roster is good enough to win without MVP level QB play?

Interesting take from an Eagles fan.

 

[QuestionSocratic]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Josh Allen? He's had a very good season so far as well.

If the Bills win out and Allen puts up big numbers, and especially if he has a big game against the Bengels, then maybe he has a slim chance. But that almost requires the other candidates to have shitty performances the rest of the way.

But as one other poster previously mentioned, I'd trade five years worth of MVP awards for one Super Bowl ring.