Who had the better first half? JD Martinez or Stanton?

[Indrid Cold]

you think andre dawson deserved his MVP?
id have gone with ozzie smith or jack clark. they finished 2nd and 3rd. their team won 95 games. clark led the NL in walks and OPS, slugging and OBP.
the cubs finished dead last in 87.

The really galling thing was that Dawson didn't even have a great year...hit lots of HRs, but his OBP was terrible and his knees were so shot by then that he was pretty brutal in the OF.
The Reds didn't do anything special, but Eric Davis was a far better MVP candidate than Dawson...he missed his usual 30 games, but hit HRs at a rate similar to Dawson in a tougher park, had a much better OBP, and was a terror on the basepaths and a one man highlight reel in the OF. Clark and the Wiz were also good candidates.
I will put Clark down as one of the dumbest guys ever in the majors. I knew a guy who played in the minors with Jack and stayed friends with him...he told me about a phone call in which Clark said he was going to go buy a couple of Porsches and then meet with his lawyer about declaring bankruptcy.

 

[navamind]

you think andre dawson deserved his MVP?

id have gone with ozzie smith or jack clark. they finished 2nd and 3rd. their team won 95 games. clark led the NL in walks and OPS, slugging and OBP.
the cubs finished dead last in 87.

Andre Dawson didn't deserve his MVP because he didn't deserve it. He was a right fielder with a 130 OPS+. Nice season, but no way does that make him one of the most valuable players in the league (he finished outside the top 10 NL players in WAR). It should have gone to Gwynn, Davis or Murphy, all of whom had far superior seasons.

comparing Trout's season to Dawson's is hilariously dumb. Trout's already got 2.6 more WAR than Dawson did for that entire year and there's still 70+ games to go. Trout's having one of the greatest offensive seasons of all-time as it stands.

1987 was a terrible award year in general. George Bell winning over Trammell/Boggs is also a joke and a reliever winning a CYA is just dumb, especially with Bedrosian's numbers.

 

[richig07]

His final half season in Detroit was the beginning of what he is right now. Exploded with the dbacks and now continuing that in a hitters paradise Fenway.

Yes, last year was my first season living here in Detroit. He missed April and then I watched him just about every night DESTROY the baseball until he was dealt to AZ. Where he homered nearly every day.

It felt like he never had a bad day. He only played 120 games - which puts his HR pace near 70 in a full season. Ridiculous. He made adjustments with his swing and changed his approach to go the other way more. Which actually inspired Castellanos to do the same, which led to his 2nd half breakout last year. Which translated on over to this season.

I knew he'd be a wrecking ball at Fenway.

 

[navamind]

Also, Martinez is the wrong choice if you're going to vote for a Red Sox player as MVP. Betts has a wRC+ 18 points higher and provides defensive/baserunning value. He's been a better player (as evident by the 2 win gap in WAR). But Trout's wRC+ is identical and he has 81 more plate appearances than Betts, so it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to vote for Betts over him IMO.

 

[Rock Strongo]

The really galling thing was that Dawson didn't even have a great year...hit lots of HRs, but his OBP was terrible and his knees were so shot by then that he was pretty brutal in the OF.
The Reds didn't do anything special, but Eric Davis was a far better MVP candidate than Dawson...he missed his usual 30 games, but hit HRs at a rate similar to Dawson in a tougher park, had a much better OBP, and was a terror on the basepaths and a one man highlight reel in the OF. Clark and the Wiz were also good candidates.
I will put Clark down as one of the dumbest guys ever in the majors. I knew a guy who played in the minors with Jack and stayed friends with him...he told me about a phone call in which Clark said he was going to go buy a couple of Porsches and then meet with his lawyer about declaring bankruptcy.

he filed again

Former Cardinals slugger Jack Clark files for bankruptcy, again

 

[Rock Strongo]

Andre Dawson didn't deserve his MVP because he didn't deserve it. He was a right fielder with a 130 OPS+. Nice season, but no way does that make him one of the most valuable players in the league (he finished outside the top 10 NL players in WAR). It should have gone to Gwynn, Davis or Murphy, all of whom had far superior seasons.

comparing Trout's season to Dawson's is hilariously dumb. Trout's already got 2.6 more WAR than Dawson did for that entire year and there's still 70+ games to go. Trout's having one of the greatest offensive seasons of all-time as it stands.

1987 was a terrible award year in general. George Bell winning over Trammell/Boggs is also a joke and a reliever winning a CYA is just dumb, especially with Bedrosian's numbers.

i did no such thing. you mentioned a shit lineup. dawson had the same problem in 87 and won an undeserved MVP.

i simply asked if you thought he deserved his MVP in 87, primarily because he was also "on a shit team".

 

[Indrid Cold]

Andre Dawson didn't deserve his MVP because he didn't deserve it. He was a right fielder with a 130 OPS+. Nice season, but no way does that make him one of the most valuable players in the league (he finished outside the top 10 NL players in WAR). It should have gone to Gwynn, Davis or Murphy, all of whom had far superior seasons.

comparing Trout's season to Dawson's is hilariously dumb. Trout's already got 2.6 more WAR than Dawson did for that entire year and there's still 70+ games to go. Trout's having one of the greatest offensive seasons of all-time as it stands.

1987 was a terrible award year in general. George Bell winning over Trammell/Boggs is also a joke and a reliever winning a CYA is just dumb, especially with Bedrosian's numbers.

Man, I forgot that Bell was the same year...some of the worst MVP voting ever!
Thanks for reminding me that Gwynn and Dale "Really Boring Great Player" Murphy also had MVP-type seasons in the NL. I think Bill James actually picked 10 guys he would have given the NL MVP to before Dawson.
I did like watching Dawson play for the Cubbies and it was really amazing to watch him warm up...he would just lazily flick the ball and it would zip to the CFer on an absolute line.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Man, I forgot that Bell was the same year...some of the worst MVP voting ever!
Thanks for reminding me that Gwynn and Dale "Really Boring Great Player" Murphy also had MVP-type seasons in the NL. I think Bill James actually picked 10 guys he would have given the NL MVP to before Dawson.
I did like watching Dawson play for the Cubbies and it was really amazing to watch him warm up...he would just lazily flick the ball and it would zip to the CFer on an absolute line.

i enjoyed his corpse here.

 

[Indrid Cold]

i enjoyed his corpse here.

Do you remember Jack Clark playing out the string in Fenway?

 

[Rock Strongo]

Do you remember Jack Clark playing out the string in Fenway?

oh absolutely. thats what i mean by his corpse. serviceable one year, done the next.