Whit

[cincygrad]

Interesting story from Whit's wife:

https://readlola.com/2019/03/our-jo...4PDqwU8b6DsDbH4fDFk7Q55iCu3NwZt9g74hnnPN_0ZUY

Two perspectives here --

1) The good franchises get rid of aging stars. Look at how the Patriots treated Ty Law, Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork. When the player's contract is too big for their age, they have to hit the road.

2) The Bengals have no leg to stand on when dealing with players. They can't point to their past successes or their "grand plan." At the very least, they should have reached out to Whitworth and explained why they were offering what they were offering - And then they should have cut into their cap and went a little extra to keep him around. They had the cash - They just wanted to play the young guys and they were wrong about the young guys.

 

[cincygrad]

It also makes you wonder how much Marvin really had any control over this roster... There is no question that the losses of Whitworth and Peko killed the leadership on his team. His teams the last two years were nothing like the group from 2011-2015 from a leadership perspective. And Marvin had to know better than anyone that Cedric and Fisher sucked. I find it hard to believe that he was behind letting Whit go.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

It also makes you wonder how much Marvin really had any control over this roster... There is no question that the losses of Whitworth and Peko killed the leadership on his team. His teams the last two years were nothing like the group from 2011-2015 from a leadership perspective. And Marvin had to know better than anyone that Cedric and Fisher sucked. I find it hard to believe that he was behind letting Whit go.

It is hard to tell as it all speculation. It is easy to use Mike Brown as the scapegoat all the time, because it gives the average fan a villain to hate. However, it is hard to tell who made that ultimate decision, how much it was discussed among many folks.

I was honestly in the same camp, of letting Whit go and see what the young guys can do. It obviously sucked but the cookie doesn't always break evenly.

There is no need for her to be talking bad about the Bengals. He got to sign for what he wanted to sign for, he wasn't even sure he wanted to finish out his final season in LA. He got to go to a SB, he made his coin, not sure what the animosity is for.

 

[alf8478]

Not to defend management on this, but to be fair, did anyone think that Whit, at his age, would have an all-pro season in 2017 and a pro-bowl season in 18?

I understand the outrage and frustration over this, but aren't we playing the result here. I mean if he went to the Rams and he stunk would this be a discussion?

 

[cincygrad]

Not to defend management on this, but to be fair, did anyone think that Whit, at his age, would have an all-pro season in 2017 and a pro-bowl season in 18?

I understand the outrage and frustration over this, but aren't we playing the result here. I mean if he went to the Rams and he stunk would this be a discussion?

He was still a top-level tackle in 2016, so I don't think it was beyond reason to believe he still had another good year or two. Maybe not the level he was at, but a good season nonetheless.

The bigger issue for me is that the Bengals coaches had to know that their tackles sucked. To Crash's point, yes it sounded like a good idea to me, too... Have your top picks get a chance to play. But, wouldn't the coaches know that they were placing unreasonable expectations on two guys that had no business being starters in this league. We're they just blindly hoping for the best?

I'm also not trying to suggest that it is all Mike Brown. I think it's becoming more and more clear that Duke Tobin pulls a lot of the strings around PBS.

 

[Cincyfan78]

He was still a top-level tackle in 2016, so I don't think it was beyond reason to believe he still had another good year or two. Maybe not the level he was at, but a good season nonetheless.

The bigger issue for me is that the Bengals coaches had to know that their tackles sucked. To Crash's point, yes it sounded like a good idea to me, too... Have your top picks get a chance to play. But, wouldn't the coaches know that they were placing unreasonable expectations on two guys that had no business being starters in this league. We're they just blindly hoping for the best?

I'm also not trying to suggest that it is all Mike Brown. I think it's becoming more and more clear that Duke Tobin pulls a lot of the strings around PBS.

This. 100%.

You can't tell me that Marvin (as decent as he was at talent evaluation) didn't know how bad their tackles were. No way.

What it should have come down to was this: Sign KZ long-term for big money and try to get Whit on the cheap, or let him walk OR Sign Whit for a decent amount, but probably only a 2 year deal and let KZ walk or try to get him on the cheap.

What NEVER should have happened was exactly what did happen - no real offer made to EITHER GUY?!?! Their two best OL just simply walked. That is a "Ownership" move if ever there was one. I don't know if it was Brown, Troy, or Katie - but it certainly reeks of the Brown model that the Bengals don't pay their OL - That is their history. Just like their refusal to accept F/A back in the 90's set them back near a damned decade (and poor drafting/scouting/etc) not adapting to the need to pay good OL, whether Tackles or Guards, is going to cost them years of competitiveness on the offensive side of the ball - and it already has.

 

[cincygrad]

The real issue in all of this is the fact that we ended up with two garbage draft picks. Whether they were overvalued in the draft or Paul Alexander completely lost his ability to develop talent, it's devastating to lose out on two picks.... One is bad luck; Two is a trend.

If either of those picks developed into an NFL quality starter at LT, we'd be in position to say they made the right call with Whit.

 

[alf8478]

And it's all because La'el Collins was interviewed by police relating to a murder. He's the guy they wanted.

 

[DanBengalfan]

The Bengals are forced to stay at 89.5% of the spending everyone else is allowed to do, so you see, we will always be at a disadvantage. ha ha.

 

[Cincyfan78]

The Bengals are forced to stay at 89.5% of the spending everyone else is allowed to do, so you see, we will always be at a disadvantage. ha ha.

I get having a lot of flak for some things, but this is one of those things that seems to never die despite that fact that this thought process in inherently incorrect.

In 2018 - The Bengals had less cap room than the league average. (10.5M average, 8.4M in cap space).
In 2017 - The Bengals had less cap room than the league average. (12.6M average, 9.9M in cap space).
In 2016 - The Bengals had less cap room than the league average. (10.3M average, 5.1M in cap space).
In 2015 - The Bengals had less cap room than the league average. (8.3M average, 8.2M in cap space).

In fact, you have to go back to 2014 to find when the Bengals had more cap space than the NFL average. That year, though, the NFL average was just 5.8M in cap space. The Bengals had 10M.

Their NFL rank in terms of cap space:
2018- 11th
2017-14th
2016-21st
2015-13th
2014- 6th

As you can see, over the past 4 seasons, the Bengals have been, pretty much, dead smack in the middle in terms of cap space AND below the league average.

This narrative is old and tired. The Bengals screw up a lot of things, but let's at least get the things they do correctly right.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I get having a lot of flak for some things, but this is one of those things that seems to never die despite that fact that this thought process in inherently incorrect.

In 2018 - The Bengals had less cap room than the league average. (10.5M average, 8.4M in cap space).
In 2017 - The Bengals had less cap room than the league average. (12.6M average, 9.9M in cap space).
In 2016 - The Bengals had less cap room than the league average. (10.3M average, 5.1M in cap space).
In 2015 - The Bengals had less cap room than the league average. (8.3M average, 8.2M in cap space).

In fact, you have to go back to 2014 to find when the Bengals had more cap space than the NFL average. That year, though, the NFL average was just 5.8M in cap space. The Bengals had 10M.

Their NFL rank in terms of cap space:
2018- 11th
2017-14th
2016-21st
2015-13th
2014- 6th

As you can see, over the past 4 seasons, the Bengals have been, pretty much, dead smack in the middle in terms of cap space AND below the league average.

This narrative is old and tired. The Bengals screw up a lot of things, but let's at least get the things they do correctly right.

Now, if the government can operate on a actual budget and keep it in line like the Bengals, this country would be in a better place.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

I get having a lot of flak for some things, but this is one of those things that seems to never die despite that fact that this thought process in inherently incorrect.

In 2018 - The Bengals had less cap room than the league average. (10.5M average, 8.4M in cap space).
In 2017 - The Bengals had less cap room than the league average. (12.6M average, 9.9M in cap space).
In 2016 - The Bengals had less cap room than the league average. (10.3M average, 5.1M in cap space).
In 2015 - The Bengals had less cap room than the league average. (8.3M average, 8.2M in cap space).

In fact, you have to go back to 2014 to find when the Bengals had more cap space than the NFL average. That year, though, the NFL average was just 5.8M in cap space. The Bengals had 10M.

Their NFL rank in terms of cap space:
2018- 11th
2017-14th
2016-21st
2015-13th
2014- 6th

As you can see, over the past 4 seasons, the Bengals have been, pretty much, dead smack in the middle in terms of cap space AND below the league average.

This narrative is old and tired. The Bengals screw up a lot of things, but let's at least get the things they do correctly right.

And yet they still suck. Maybe my grandkids will witness a Bengals playoff win.

 

[DanBengalfan]

sure thing hobs.

 

[cincygrad]

They do get criticized for not being willing to carry much dead money. Paul Dehner wrote about this during the offseason. In a lot of ways the way they do business is admirable. They don't have to renegotiate a bunch of deals to make things work. But, their primary competitor in their own division does a lot of this (Pittsburgh) and they've had more success than we've had.

I agree though.... The narrative is tiring. We saw it all during the offseason starting with the idea that we were definitely hiring Hue and not spending any money. They say the same crap over and over again.

 

[DanBengalfan]

order the fuxing rings then.

 

[DanBengalfan]

sorry guys.

This team used to be somewhat decent and there was a glimmer of hope.

Some of you were pretty small or non existent when that was true, what Mike Brown has done to this city and this team is disgusting. There are worse people in the world than Mike Brown, but most of them are in jail.

you may have proved me wrong on some of the financials, but like I say, order the fucking rings. Next season will be just as bad as this one. Eifert goes down, Green's turf tow acts up, Dalton injures his thumb trying to tackle someone, excuses will resound. At least we got rid of PacMan.

I didn't watch last season, except highlights.
I won't watch next season.

eventually i will go away and you won't have to listen to my old tired comments.

but what's really old and tired, is this team.