What is your Criteria for MVP

[fightinfunbags]

....and I agreed. However, Jokic does get more steals and Embiid's rim protection only nets him one more block per game. Difficult to show defense in stats.

Stat driven arguments are for former JV high school soccer players who don’t have the ability to trust their experience and their eyes to make a determination about a player. One of my favorite all time players was A.I. He was always towards the top of league each year in steals per game. Allen Iverson was a shitty defensive player. He would constantly be the focal point of pick and roll and having taller guards post him. He was a defensive liability. Steals? Fuck that noise.

 

[dtgold88]

Of course, it's a clever idea but I think too odd to ever happen. Part of the fun of sports is arguing over this stuff anyway. Amirite @dtgold88 ?

I'll let you know the next time I argue with someone about sports here...which would be the first time.

 

[msgkings322]

I'll let you know the next time I argue with someone about sports here...which would be the first time.

Yeah, why don't you ever engage in any debates here?

 

[tlance]

Embiid missed games because he had a real injury, he wasn’t load managing. I guess it’s one of the two but I think Embiid has earned it. I want to see the changes in his game rewarded. He shoots fewer threes and plays like a old school center a lot. It would be great if he won.

So has Jokic.

And I would argue that 37-20 in the West is better than 39-18 in the East.

 

[tlance]

Embiid has missed 18 games and the Sixers are 9-9 without him.

Wow. Google search fail.

Ok, 18 games is too many.

This shouldn’t even be a discussion. Stats are equal, records are equal.

 

[CitySushi]

Steph Curry this season:

gave Jokic 53 points
gave Embiid 49 points
gave Dame 62 points
gave Luka 57 points

 

[fightinfunbags]

Steph Curry this season:

gave Jokic 53 points
gave Embiid 49 points
gave Dame 62 points
gave Luka 57 points

He was incredible last night. And to think that he’s doing this with glorified whale shit around him is amazing. I think he had more help at Davidson.

 

[ill]

Straw man, your table is ready...

He identified one play where Curry didn't drive past Embiid to illustrate that Embiid is a superior defender, and I countered.

Not a strawman at all.

 

[Wamu]

Your analysis doesn’t speak to much in the way of defense. Both guys are dominant offensive players bringing a different offensive game. The discrepancy is in the defense. Jokic has improved on that end but Embiid is one of the top rim protectors in the league. On one play last night a switch put him on Curry 27-28 feet away from the basket. Curry tried to take him off the dribble. Embiid tracked him step for step and blocked his shot. Ha, I’d love to see Jokic’s fat ass attempt that shit.

Jokic has a better FG%- .569 to Embiid's .512.

Jokic has a better 3 pt. %- .419 to Embiid's .378

Jokic averages more assists 8.8 to 3.1

Jokic averages more steals 1.4 to 1.0

It's a wash on rebounds. 11.1 Jokic / 11.2 Embiid
A wash on FT% .854 to .853
And both average 3.1 TO's a game

Embiid averages more points 29.9 to 26.4
Embiid averages more blocks 1.4 to .6


Not taking anything away from Embiid, he's had a helluva year. But Jokic has been the more dependable of the two, hasn't miss a game. Giving the MVP edge to Jokic because WC > EC. And I think the Joker's stats are better than Embiid's.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Jokic has a better FG%- .569 to Embiid's .512.

Jokic has a better 3 pt. %- .419 to Embiid's .378

Jokic averages more assists 8.8 to 3.1

Jokic averages more steals 1.4 to 1.0

It's a wash on rebounds. 11.1 Jokic / 11.2 Embiid
A wash on FT% .854 to .853
And both average 3.1 TO's a game

Embiid averages more points 29.9 to 26.4
Embiid averages more blocks 1.4 to .6


Not taking anything away from Embiid, he's had a helluva year. But Jokic has been the more dependable of the two, hasn't miss a game. Giving the MVP edge to Jokic because WC > EC. And I think the Joker's stats are better than Embiid's.

And I’ve posted here before that Jokic would be my pick as well just based on the difference in games played. At the same time, I still think a stats centered argument tells a portion of the story and in this case stats don’t really measure the impact the guys have on the defensive end. Maybe I’m a homer but I think Embiid has an argument for being the best two way player in the league this year dominating at both ends.

 

[Wamu]

And I’ve posted here before that Jokic would be my pick as well just based on the difference in games played. At the same time, I still think a stats centered argument tells a portion of the story and in this case stats don’t really measure the impact the guys have on the defensive end. Maybe I’m a homer but I think Embiid has an argument for being the best two way player in the league this year dominating at both ends.

Hey it's all good. I understand why you're picking Embiid. And I won't call that homerism. I've been going to Nuggets games since the 2010-11 season. And have watched Jokic get better each year of his career. Both are deserving. But obviously only one can win the award.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Hey it's all good. I understand why you're picking Embiid. And I won't call that homerism. I've been going to Nuggets games since the 2010-11 season. And have watched Jokic get better each year of his career. Both are deserving. But obviously only one can win the award.

I think Jokic earned the 21 MVP. No argument there. And this is likely where my homer takes over. I think Embiid is the better and more complete basketball player. A big reason for that is Embiid being able to dictate and dominate at both ends. I will say this though, Jokic is a great player. His skill, court vision and basketball IQ is unicorn like in a body like his. And if I’m a GM, I think long and hard about Embiid perpetual injury issues and maybe with my job on the line I choose availability over ability.

 

[Wamu]

I think Jokic earned the 21 MVP. No argument there. And this is likely where my homer takes over. I think Embiid is the better and more complete basketball player. A big reason for that is Embiid being able to dictate and dominate at both ends. I will say this though, Jokic is a great player. His skill, court vision and basketball IQ is unicorn like in a body like his. And if I’m a GM, I think long and hard about Embiid perpetual injury issues and maybe with my job on the line I choose availability over ability.

I think they are both dominant in their own way. Not sure I'd say the most complete. Jokic has a strength Embiid doesn't have, his high assist totals. An is the better outside shooter. But you can't go wrong with either.

 

[tlance]

And I’ve posted here before that Jokic would be my pick as well just based on the difference in games played. At the same time, I still think a stats centered argument tells a portion of the story and in this case stats don’t really measure the impact the guys have on the defensive end. Maybe I’m a homer but I think Embiid has an argument for being the best two way player in the league this year dominating at both ends.

I think that is fair.

I would have it close to a wash if they had played the same number of games.

They haven’t though.

 

[gohusk]

1. He plays for the W's
2., ... bunch of other stuff, whatever

STEPH FOR MVP!

 

[shopson67]

1. He plays for the W's
2., ... bunch of other stuff, whatever

STEPH FOR MVP!

Yeah, without him they would be projected to miss the playoffs! Oh, wait...

 

[gohusk]

Yeah, without him they would be projected to miss the playoffs! Oh, wait...

they have a play-in right now.

 

[flyerhawk]

I think that is fair.

I would have it close to a wash if they had played the same number of games.

They haven’t though.

Jokic is going to be the MVP. I don't think there is much question about that.

But I would say the big difference between them is that Embiid is an elite defender at a position where defense is critical where as Jokic is a sub-par defender at that same position. So as players, I think Embiid is the more impactful. But he misses too many games.

 

[msgkings322]

Jokic is going to be the MVP. I don't think there is much question about that.

But I would say the big difference between them is that Embiid is an elite defender at a position where defense is critical where as Jokic is a sub-par defender at that same position. So as players, I think Embiid is the more impactful. But he misses too many games.

Right, I think we'll look back on Jokic's MVP as a soft one, like Nash's. Jokic will win because players that are better or more impactful than him are either hurt too much this year (LeBron, Embiid, AD, Durant) or on middling teams (Curry, Lillard)

I mean, statistically obviously not, but wouldn't you think Chris Paul kind of is more valuable/impactful?

 

[trojanfan12]

Right, I think we'll look back on Jokic's MVP as a soft one, like Nash's. Jokic will win because players that are better or more impactful than him are either hurt too much this year (LeBron, Embiid, AD, Durant) or on middling teams (Curry, Lillard)

I mean, statistically obviously not, but wouldn't you think Chris Paul kind of is more valuable/impactful?

If I had a vote, I'd vote CP3.