What are the 49ers long-term plan at quarterback?

[Mozart'sGhost]

You did say 1 a game, however you have to throw out Smith's rookie season, he shouldn't have even been on the field and obviously 1 td and 11 int in no way embodies his career. I would even go so far as to take away his injury plagued 07 season - if you want a fair representation of his growth - and the numbers look like this:

Pre Harbaugh: 48 td 38 int, post 17 td 5 int.... compare that to Sanchez 55 td 51 int and it's fair to say that Smith protects the ball better.

It's also fair to point out that Sanchez' YPA is dismal 6.5 his completion % is terrible 55.3 and he seems prone to just making really stupid plays.

Maybe he gets better under Harbaugh, minimizes his mistakes increases his accuracy a bit and then you basically have Smith... we should probably wait to see what Smith does in the playoffs anyway...

I did. And I stand by my subsequent statement that 53 INT in 54 games is just that; the statistical difference not even being worthy of mention.

 

[Flyingiguana]

it's hard to compare the two because smith not only had new coordinators each year, he's had guys who shouldn't have been calling plays in the first place and he lost over a year while trying to develop into an nfl qb. i think sanchez could improve and he should next year in his 4th season. the upper end of his ceiling could be what smith is now. while smith should continue to improve as our passing game takes steps forward next year.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

it's hard to compare the two because smith not only had new coordinators each year, he's had guys who shouldn't have been calling plays in the first place and he lost over a year while trying to develop into an nfl qb. i think sanchez could improve and he should next year in his 4th season. the upper end of his ceiling could be what smith is now. while smith should continue to improve as our passing game takes steps forward next year.

Smith definitely had it worse, both in terms of team talent and coaching-wise but I'm pretty sure we've seen what Alex Smith is but not sure yet that we've seen what Sanchez is. One thing I do know is that what we have with Alex Smith is acceptable for now but not what I want for the future. He's done well with what he's had to work with though; I've gotta give him that.

 

[MW49ers5]

"...but Sanchez [Smith] has demonstrably struggled in areas of the game that go beyond pure physical attributes, like committing foolish mistakes, creating turnovers, and struggling to accurately place a football."

If I didn't know better I'd think you were decscribing the career of Alex Smith prior to this season.........to a T.

LMAO!...I thought precisely the same thing when I read that!

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

Only if we're dealing with purely hypothetical players. But we're not. We're dealing with two actual players who have been observable over a period of years and many NFL games. It's difficult in the game of football to make absolutely positive judgments, but Sanchez has demonstrably struggled in areas of the game that go beyond pure physical attributes, like committing foolish mistakes, creating turnovers, and struggling to accurately place a football. I don't see how those things are baseless speculation.

If I didn't know better I'd think you were decscribing the career of Alex Smith prior to this season.........to a T.

LMAO!...I thought precisely the same thing when I read that!

I know. I couldn't have expressed my point more clearly than Crimson did for me.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Smith definitely had it worse, both in terms of team talent and coaching-wise but I'm pretty sure we've seen what Alex Smith is but not sure yet that we've seen what Sanchez is. One thing I do know is that what we have with Alex Smith is acceptable for now but not what I want for the future. He's done well with what he's had to work with though; I've gotta give him that.

smith is just getting back on track after his shoulder injury. smith is still on track for a rich gannon style career. sanchez is a sub 80 passer rating qb even tho he's on a fairly talented offense. he should improve next year, but overal i think he's overrated.

 

[vvoland]

Smith definitely had it worse, both in terms of team talent and coaching-wise but I'm pretty sure we've seen what Alex Smith is but not sure yet that we've seen what Sanchez is. One thing I do know is that what we have with Alex Smith is acceptable for now but not what I want for the future. He's done well with what he's had to work with though; I've gotta give him that.

why? i think its one of those, 'the grass is greener' situations. i think sanchez is exactly what we've seen. a qb with decent arm strength from a big time college program playing in nyc. the hype for sanches has never really died down but i do not see any areas where sanchez is demonstrably better than smith. sanchez is more careless with the ball and has had far less success despite far more continuity on his coaching staff, FAR better talent at the WR positions, better protections, and just a superior team [in terms of physical talent].

i am of the opinion that smith is just scratching the surface of what he can do. he still doesn't have a true no 1 receiver. his o-line just started to play well this season despite a half dozen games of 5+ sacks. this is the first year he has an OC that can actually call plays with some imagination. he didn't even get a chance to work with harbaugh in the offseason but for some reason a big part of this board thinks he's hit his ceiling. going back to last season, smith has a 25-7 TD/INT ratio. will sanchez ever hit those numbers?

what can a. smith do with dwayne bowe, crabs, and vd as his top 3 receiving threats? what can he do with a full offseason w/ the coach of the year? what can he do with a cohesive offensive line playing consistent ball all season? before this season started, and even during the first 10 or so weeks, i was far more excited about next season than i was hoping for this one. i still think this team has a ton of room to grow and smith being at the top of the list. he's improved in every area and while he used to be suspect outside the pocket, in terms of ball security, fumbles, INTs, and forcing throws he's improved in all of those aspects. the one thing he can work on in the offseason that would raise his game to the next level is the deep sideline throw. i am confident that smith and JH will make that a priority and [if they get some talent at WR] will open up the playbook next year.

i really don't see all this sanchez love being rooted in reality. not to be facetious but ghost, how much of your trust in sanchez comes from him being an ex-trojan?

 

[ViperVisor]

Sanchez had 26 turnovers.

Wake up and smell the coffee. 2006 Smith looked like that with better % and yards per att.

 

[MW49ers5]

I did. And I stand by my subsequent statement that 53 INT in 54 games is just that; the statistical difference not even being worthy of mention.

Smith's 2007 Seattle game is always omitted from Smiths "games played" denominator anyway.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

why? i think its one of those, 'the grass is greener' situations. i think sanchez is exactly what we've seen. a qb with decent arm strength from a big time college program playing in nyc. the hype for sanches has never really died down but i do not see any areas where sanchez is demonstrably better than smith. sanchez is more careless with the ball and has had far less success despite far more continuity on his coaching staff, FAR better talent at the WR positions, better protections, and just a superior team [in terms of physical talent].

i am of the opinion that smith is just scratching the surface of what he can do. he still doesn't have a true no 1 receiver. his o-line just started to play well this season despite a half dozen games of 5+ sacks. this is the first year he has an OC that can actually call plays with some imagination. he didn't even get a chance to work with harbaugh in the offseason but for some reason a big part of this board thinks he's hit his ceiling. going back to last season, smith has a 25-7 TD/INT ratio. will sanchez ever hit those numbers?

what can a. smith do with dwayne bowe, crabs, and vd as his top 3 receiving threats? what can he do with a full offseason w/ the coach of the year? what can he do with a cohesive offensive line playing consistent ball all season? before this season started, and even during the first 10 or so weeks, i was far more excited about next season than i was hoping for this one. i still think this team has a ton of room to grow and smith being at the top of the list. he's improved in every area and while he used to be suspect outside the pocket, in terms of ball security, fumbles, INTs, and forcing throws he's improved in all of those aspects. the one thing he can work on in the offseason that would raise his game to the next level is the deep sideline throw. i am confident that smith and JH will make that a priority and [if they get some talent at WR] will open up the playbook next year.

i really don't see all this sanchez love being rooted in reality. not to be facetious but ghost, how much of your trust in sanchez comes from him being an ex-trojan?

None really. I just thought it was an interesting topic because I think both QBs would do well in the other one's current system.

 

[MHSL82]

You're missing the point of "all things being equal".

I think Sanchez is a better QB than Smith and with more upside; thus, in a Harbaugh/Roman environment I believe Sanchez far outperforms Smith.

That's all.

Just want to be clear on what you and Imac mean on "all things being equal".

It sounds like you define "all things being equal" as - same teammates, same coaches, same time to prepare, same relative opponents, etc. (where the players are the variables).

It sounds like Imac defines "all things being equal as - same mental makeup (where physical skill(s) is/are the variable(s)).

If I'm going on Imac's definition, I'd agree with him that you can't take Sanchez because of his physical skills assuming the mental makeup is the same, when it's not. You'd have to see how that mental makeup effects the use of his physical skills, in which it isn't as open and shut as it sounds.

If I'm going on what I think you are saying, then you are saying Smith in a vaccuum is less than Sanchez, in which it would make sense to choose Sanchez if he indeed has better physical skills. Then if all things were equal, same system, teammates, coaches, etc. Sanchez would be the choice.

I think everyone knows where I lean in this argument. I went to and root for USC all the way, but my home state was Utah for the years Smith was there. I was a 49er fan growing up so with Smith being here the last seven years and at Utah, I'm partial to him. I think we'll see an improvement next year, too. Where he stands at the end of next year is where I will comment on his limitations and abilities, mentally and physically.

 

[MW49ers5]

Just want to be clear on what you and Imac mean on "all things being equal".

It sounds like you define "all things being equal" as - same teammates, same coaches, same time to prepare, same relative opponents, etc. (where the players are the variables).

It sounds like Imac defines "all things being equal as - same mental makeup (where physical skill(s) is/are the variable(s)).

If I'm going on Imac's definition, I'd agree with him that you can't take Sanchez because of his physical skills assuming the mental makeup is the same, when it's not. You'd have to see how that mental makeup effects the use of his physical skills, in which it isn't as open and shut as it sounds.

If I'm going on what I think you are saying, then you are saying Smith in a vaccuum is less than Sanchez, in which it would make sense to choose Sanchez if he indeed has better physical skills. Then if all things were equal, same system, teammates, coaches, etc. Sanchez would be the choice.

I think everyone knows where I lean in this argument. I went to and root for USC all the way, but my home state was Utah for the years Smith was there. I was a 49er fan growing up so with Smith being here the last seven years and at Utah, I'm partial to him. I think we'll see an improvement next year, too. Where he stands at the end of next year is where I will comment on his limitations and abilities, mentally and physically.

Think in mathematical terms - 10% of 80 is greater than 10% of 60

 

[MHSL82]

Think in mathematical terms - 10% of 80 is greater than 10% of 60

That went over my head because I wouldn't assume Sanchez was 80 and Smith was 60, or vice-versa for that matter.

 

[MW49ers5]

That went over my head because I wouldn't assume Sanchez was 80 and Smith was 60, or vice-versa for that matter.

No worries, man...

 

[imac_21]

Of course not. Sanchez has a stronger arm, a quicker release, he throws a better ball with more velocity. futhermore, and IMO, Sanchez is better in the pocket, has better footwork, is better at play-action and finally, he has a much quicker mind and is much more confident. All totaled, IMO, Sanchez has way more upside; and, that is what is this is about - not who is better today, but who will be better tomorrow.

If you think Smith is better and/or has more upside - what are your legitimate points as to why you feel that way.

Sanchez has poor ball placement and makes bad decisions. He often tries to force balls into non-existent windows.

If we're going to add a QB with more physical talent than Smith and hope that Harbaugh can coach him up, I'd much rather get Chad Henne who has a stronger arm, is better in the pocket, has better footwork, is better at play-action and is more confident than Sanchez, as well as being more accurate.

And Henne/Harbaugh have the Michigan connection.

And Henne we would not have to trade for as he is a FA.

 

[imac_21]

Just want to be clear on what you and Imac mean on "all things being equal".

It sounds like you define "all things being equal" as - same teammates, same coaches, same time to prepare, same relative opponents, etc. (where the players are the variables).

It sounds like Imac defines "all things being equal as - same mental makeup (where physical skill(s) is/are the variable(s)).

If I'm going on Imac's definition, I'd agree with him that you can't take Sanchez because of his physical skills assuming the mental makeup is the same, when it's not. You'd have to see how that mental makeup effects the use of his physical skills, in which it isn't as open and shut as it sounds.

If I'm going on what I think you are saying, then you are saying Smith in a vaccuum is less than Sanchez, in which it would make sense to choose Sanchez if he indeed has better physical skills. Then if all things were equal, same system, teammates, coaches, etc. Sanchez would be the choice.

I think everyone knows where I lean in this argument. I went to and root for USC all the way, but my home state was Utah for the years Smith was there. I was a 49er fan growing up so with Smith being here the last seven years and at Utah, I'm partial to him. I think we'll see an improvement next year, too. Where he stands at the end of next year is where I will comment on his limitations and abilities, mentally and physically.

When the fuck did I say anything about "all things being equal?"

Simply put, if Harbaugh is the QB whisperer that can make Mark Sanchez a decent QB, let's give him a good QB to work into a great QB.

Why settle for below average if greatness is in play?

 

[MW49ers5]

Sanchez has poor ball placement and makes bad decisions. He often tries to force balls into non-existent windows.

If we're going to add a QB with more physical talent than Smith and hope that Harbaugh can coach him up, I'd much rather get Chad Henne who has a stronger arm, is better in the pocket, has better footwork, is better at play-action and is more confident than Sanchez, as well as being more accurate.

And Henne/Harbaugh have the Michigan connection.

And Henne we would not have to trade for as he is a FA.

So we're shifting from Smith & Sanchez to Henne & Sanchez; sounds fine to me, obviously we would want the best QB possible to mold.

If Sanchez > Smith, but Henne > Sanchez then lets get Henne, but then what about Kap? Where does he fit in? He's much more contract friendly than Smith, Sanchez & Henne.

Just for the record, I don't think anyone is seriously considering these ideas to be anything more than just hypothetical rhetoric.

 

[imac_21]

So we're shifting from Smith & Sanchez to Henne & Sanchez; sounds fine to me, obviously we would want the best QB possible to mold.

If Sanchez > Smith, but Henne > Sanchez then lets get Henne, but then what about Kap? Where does he fit in? He's much more contract friendly Smith, Sanchez & Henne.

Just for the record, I don't think anyone is seriously considering these ideas to be anything more than just hypothetical rhetoric.

I just threw out Henne's name. I think if we're looking to change the QB, we should be looking for someone that can make a significant difference. Could Sanchez be an upgrade? Yeah, I don't think he is, but he MIGHT be. He wouldn't be much of one though, and would ultimately be a placeholder. Same with Henne.

If I'm running this team the only QB I'm showing any interest in that is not in the draft and is not Alex Smith is Peyton Manning. If Manning's healthy, he significantly upgrades our team and allows us to have a few years (probably 3 tops) where we are a legitimate Super Bowl contender and can groom a young QB to replace him (be it Kaepernick or a draft pick this year or next, even 2013 possibly).

If we were to add a healthy Manning. I think we automatically become a legitimate SB contender. Right now we're considered to be the top of the second tier in the NFC (possibly the only team in the second tier) behind GB and NO. Why? Because there is no way our offense can keep pace with them.

If we add Manning, with the defense we have now, our offense can suddenly keep pace (look at all the warts he hid in Indy).

If we were to add Manning, I would absolutely look to add a dynamic WR in the first round, even if that means trading up. If we can re-sign Rodgers and Goldson with the addition of Manning, we're a WR away from being very dynamic on both sides of the ball.

 

[Flyingiguana]

i think we all agree that we want something better than smith, but the grass isn't always greener.

bringing in henne would be a decent move because he'd be a back up, then he can battle kap for the #2 role. bringing in sanchez would be like hitting the rewind button on smith to say, his 2nd year

our longterm solution at qb might be playing college or even high school.

 

[MHSL82]

When the fuck did I say anything about "all things being equal?"

Simply put, if Harbaugh is the QB whisperer that can make Mark Sanchez a decent QB, let's give him a good QB to work into a great QB.

Why settle for below average if greatness is in play?

My mistake, obviously. I think I meant Crimsoncrew.