Wentz or Goff

[Rambunctious]

“Dick Vermeil asked me my opinion on who the third quarterback should be,” Kroenke said. “I had a great relationship with Dick. Dick loved Will Furrer, the type of guy we’d all want to marry our daughter. He worked his tail off. Came out of Virginia Tech. I liked Will. Nobody knew anything about Kurt, but I watched the scrimmage, and this is the similarity with Goff: I told Dick, ‘OK, I’ve never played football, but you want my opinion? The kid from Northern Iowa can see. He’s got vision. It’s like a really good point guard. Some guys have it, some guys don’t. Whether it’s Arena Football that gave it to him or whatever, but he can see.’

“And Jared has that. It’s the vision thing.”

Stan Kroenke compares Jared Goff to Kurt Warner, who he endorsed


Dick said.....

Stan Kroenke’s memory may be a little foggy on Kurt Warner

 

[zeke2829]

“Dick Vermeil asked me my opinion on who the third quarterback should be,” Kroenke said. “I had a great relationship with Dick. Dick loved Will Furrer, the type of guy we’d all want to marry our daughter. He worked his tail off. Came out of Virginia Tech. I liked Will. Nobody knew anything about Kurt, but I watched the scrimmage, and this is the similarity with Goff: I told Dick, ‘OK, I’ve never played football, but you want my opinion? The kid from Northern Iowa can see. He’s got vision. It’s like a really good point guard. Some guys have it, some guys don’t. Whether it’s Arena Football that gave it to him or whatever, but he can see.’

“And Jared has that. It’s the vision thing.”

Stan Kroenke compares Jared Goff to Kurt Warner, who he endorsed


Dick said.....

Stan Kroenke’s memory may be a little foggy on Kurt Warner

Hmmm...... wow, Stan making a public comment? He's trying to take a little credit for the success when he had nothing to do with it. Typicle! Also looks as though there was some bad blood between Vermeil/Kreonke as well!

 

[Retroram52]

Oh there was bad blood between Vermeil and that entire FO starting with the Queen Idiot, limp-biscuit Kroneke, and that glorious tandem of moronic jerks of John Shaw/Jay Zygmunt who couldn't find their way out of the proverbial wet paper bag even if you showed them with a pair of scissors.

Vermeil was smart enough to concentrate on his job and not get caught up in the sunaami of bullshit that mess would create on a minute-by-minute basis. I find it laughable Kroneke would even attempt to claim any contribution to "discovering" Kurt Warner. He simply does not have that analytical capacity concerned with football talent. He proved that numerous times in the past by standing idly by and allowing the Queen Idiot and Shaw/Zygmunt make one completely dumbass move after another. What a complete joke this notion is!

 

[Rambunctious]

 

[Smed55]

I keep saying that I hope Goff is our QB for the next ten years, but than again I keep thinking, is he really that good?

He only played 3 years like our last #1 draft pick, franchise QB.
He played in a pass happy weak defensive conference like our last #1 draft pick, franchise QB.
The best year his team ever had, "he led" them to a 8-5 record? Sure some of that can be blamed on his teams defense, but if he was putting up these great numbers, shouldn't they have been winning more games? Now I will admit, didn't watch much PAC 12 football, but was he putting these numbers up because the PAC 12 defenses sucked or his team was behind alot and they had to
throw, or maybe a combination of factors?

All i can say is I hope, I hope, I hope!!!! I really do want to be on the Goff bandwagon!

 

[shopson67]

I keep saying that I hope Goff is our QB for the next ten years, but than again I keep thinking, is he really that good?

He only played 3 years like our last #1 draft pick, franchise QB.
He played in a pass happy weak defensive conference like our last #1 draft pick, franchise QB.
The best year his team ever had, "he led" them to a 8-5 record? Sure some of that can be blamed on his teams defense, but if he was putting up these great numbers, shouldn't they have been winning more games? Now I will admit, didn't watch much PAC 12 football, but was he putting these numbers up because the PAC 12 defenses sucked or his team was behind alot and they had to
throw, or maybe a combination of factors?

All i can say is I hope, I hope, I hope!!!! I really do want to be on the Goff bandwagon!

Look at it this way, how many other players from Cal have been drafted since he arrived there?

2016:
Trevor Davis, WR, pick 5.163
Daniel Lasco, RB, pick 7.237
Kenny Lawler, WR, pick 7.243

2015:
None

2014:
Richard Rodgers, TE, pick 3.98
Khairi Fortt, LB, pick 4.126

That's it. In his 3 years, 5 other Cal players were deemed draftable. Sure, more may go pro next year, but that's pretty underwhelming. Not one OL. Only 1 top 100 player (barely). Only 1 defender, and he was a tweener LB/S from 2 years ago.

 

[Smed55]

I agree Shops, but I'm just saying, very weak defensive conference, so who knows how good he really is?

 

[SHOTGUN]

when I was comparing these two for the Eagles I determined Goff wouldn't be successful in bad weather with those small hands. There aren't any QB's out there who have been successful in recent yrs with hands that small. I think the only other QB with hands that small is Tannehill. A rainy day in Seattle could be a disaster.

 

[Vitamike]

I agree Shops, but I'm just saying, very weak defensive conference, so who knows how good he really is?

What are you basing your assessment of the PAC12 defenses? You admittedly don't watch PAC football so I'm curious how you can keep saying this...

Now I watch a whole lot of PAC12 Football, and weak is not a word I would ever use to describe the defenses in that conference.

 

[Vitamike]

when I was comparing these two for the Eagles I determined Goff wouldn't be successful in bad weather with those small hands. There aren't any QB's out there who have been successful in recent yrs with hands that small. I think the only other QB with hands that small is Tannehill. A rainy day in Seattle could be a disaster.

Just watched Goff on Gruden QB Camp and Gruden points out that Rogers hand size (9.18") is pretty much the same size as Goff (9") and he plays in Green Bay, so much for the bad weather thing.

Also, Tannehill, Kaepernick and Carr all have a similar hand size of around 9".

Gruden basically laughed at that being an actual factor to be concerned with.

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

when I was comparing these two for the Eagles I determined Goff wouldn't be successful in bad weather with those small hands. There aren't any QB's out there who have been successful in recent yrs with hands that small. I think the only other QB with hands that small is Tannehill. A rainy day in Seattle could be a disaster.

Romo has smaller hands and does just fine.

also, Goff's pro day it was raining quite a bit and had no affect at all.

I think the hand size is overrated.

 

[Smed55]

Vita said:
What are you basing your assessment of the PAC12 defenses? You admittedly don't watch PAC football so I'm curious how you can keep saying this...

Now I watch a whole lot of PAC12 Football, and weak is not a word I would ever use to describe the defenses in that conference.



Well first of all Vita, no where did I say I don't watch PAC 12 football. I watch a ton of college football, I said I just dont watch as much PAC 12. Don't live on west coast so don't watch as much PAC 12 as you, after a couple a hours of flipping around watching college ball, I'm pretty much done, I may see one PAC 12 game a week, but I do see highlights and the games I usually watch are more often than not high scoring affairs in the PAC 12.

I'm sorry but if 9 out of the 12 teams in that conference are scoring 30 points a game, and one more is just less than a point under that, that to me is not playing great, let alone good or average defense, so what word would you use to describe PAC 12 Defense.

the PAC 12 is the only major conference that had 6 teams throw for over 30 TDs, only one other conference had over 3 teams do that, that would be the Big 12 which also has been a throwing conference since Sammies days!

I'm not saying that these conferences are totally shit defensively, they both have a "couple" of good D's, but overall they are not known as defensive conferences, they both put up a lot of points, primarily because they are passing conferences, so it's a combination of good offenses and bad defenses.

So again, I'm not saying at Goff isn't the real deal, I'm saying I still have question marks about a lot of guys that come out of these type conferences, that's all I'm saying!

 

[SJ76]

<---- Goff Honk

 

[SJ76]

Pac 12 plays D?


GTFO

 

[Vitamike]

Well first of all Vita, no where did I say I don't watch PAC 12 football. I watch a ton of college football, I said I just dont watch as much PAC 12. Don't live on west coast so don't watch as much PAC 12 as you, after a couple a hours of flipping around watching college ball, I'm pretty much done, I may see one PAC 12 game a week, but I do see highlights and the games I usually watch are more often than not high scoring affairs in the PAC 12.

I'm sorry but if 9 out of the 12 teams in that conference are scoring 30 points a game, and one more is just less than a point under that, that to me is not playing great, let alone good or average defense, so what word would you use to describe PAC 12 Defense.

the PAC 12 is the only major conference that had 6 teams throw for over 30 TDs, only one other conference had over 3 teams do that, that would be the Big 12 which also has been a throwing conference since Sammies days!

I'm not saying that these conferences are totally shit defensively, they both have a "couple" of good D's, but overall they are not known as defensive conferences, they both put up a lot of points, primarily because they are passing conferences, so it's a combination of good offenses and bad defenses.
So again, I'm not saying at Goff isn't the real deal, I'm saying I still have question marks about a lot of guys that come out of these type conferences, that's all I'm saying!

Watching a total of 12 PAC games a year really isn't a whole lot of games to paint the conference as a whole in my opinion but still that's a decent amount for as late as a lot of our games start for those in the EST and CST time zones.

I don't think you can look at the stats the way you are looking at them to accurately compare them to other conferences because the PAC is the only conference to play 9 conference games a year and as many as 6 road games, and less bottom feeders.

To me, the only way to look at this is when these conferences play head to head. If these so called strong defensive conferences are actually strong, then they would fair well against the PAC. And if the so called weak conferences were weak, they too would fair poorly against the other if they were truly weak.

So let's look at the points per game for and against in head to head out of conferences games vs one another. This eliminates factoring in things like playing less than 9 conference games; less than 6 road games; and of course playing those extremely non competitive bottom feeder in conference teams under .500. In 2015 the B1G had 7; the ACC had 5; the SEC had 4; the BIG12 had 4; & the PAC12 had 3.

In comparing head to head games, we find the PAC is plus in points per game vs all other Power 5 conferences during Goff's 3 years at Cal by an average score of PAC 33.8 pf -vs- P5 28.4 pa.

2013-2015 Power 5 Schools all games
Average score: PAC 12 33.1 pf -vs- 30.8 pa - Big 12
Average score: PAC 12 30.2 pf -vs- 28.4 pa - Big 10
Average score: PAC 12 33.3 pf -vs- 27.7 pa - SEC
Average score: PAC 12 38.6 pf -vs- 18.6 pa - ACC

It gets even better for the PAC outside of the P5 conferences.

2013-2015 FBS Schools all games
Average score: PAC 12 44.5 pf -vs- 26.0 pa - MAC
Average score: PAC 12 37.5 pf -vs- 24.7 pa - C-USA
Average score: PAC 12 33.7 pf -vs- 21.5 pa - Independents
Average score: PAC 12 36.5 pf -vs- 21.0 pa - American
Average score: PAC 12 36.7 pf -vs- 20.3 pa - Mountain West
Average score: PAC 12 55.0 pf -vs- 14.0 pa - Sun Belt

So, when all of these conferences with so called strong defenses face PAC12 schools, they too have trouble defending and look weak themselves.

 

[SJ76]

Goff didn't play a BAMA, LSU, FSU, Clemson, or Ole miss type defense.

Throw stats around all you want, but these are Defenses loaded with Pro talent. Putting Vandy in the same stat category as BAMA and dividing by 2 isn't very accurate. Not to mention a lot of these non-conference match-ups are earlier in the season and MANY teams are completely different in November than they are in August.


And I'm a Goff Honk now too. Hopefully he learns quick

 

[Vitamike]

Goff didn't play a BAMA, LSU, FSU, Clemson, or Ole miss type defense.

Throw stats around all you want, but these are Defenses loaded with Pro talent. Putting Vandy in the same stat category as BAMA and dividing by 2 isn't very accurate. Not to mention a lot of these non-conference match-ups are earlier in the season and MANY teams are completely different in November than they are in August.


And I'm a Goff Honk now too. Hopefully he learns quick

Granted the sample size with the SEC is small (3 games in those 3 years that Goff was there) but I was trying to show, during Goff's time in the PAC, that the PAC12 is tough for ANY Conference defenses to handle not just PAC defenses.

Them stats show that EVERY defense in EVERY Conference struggled vs PAC offenses (And most of those sample sizes were large) So to fairly evaluate the PAC 12 defenses, it only makes sense to see how the other conference defenses managed against them PAC offenses.

Anyway, I'm not here to say that there's not quality defense going on in the SEC, that would be lame. I'm just saying if the PAC12 had 'weak' defenses, as Smed has stated over and over, then it would show in the head to head, out of conference play, during Goff's tenure. It didn't show up that way, nor for the most part, for the PAC's entire existence.

Also SJ, if we are going to characterize 'conferences' as Smed has, then we must look at the entire conference not just the 'best of the conference'.

Here's a larger sample size, 28 games since the turn of the millennium. These are the results between the two conferences during that time.

Average score: PAC 12 27.1 pf -vs- 26.0 pa - SEC - Yep, them SEC defenses just don't dominate the PAC at all.

So, you would think, if them SEC defenses were so bad ass over the last 15 years, they would be able to stop them PAC offenses, right? Well, they haven't.

By the way, Bama's been scared to play the PAC12!

Wont do a home and away with the PAC, since they went there last, Ranked No. 3 in the country, and went home with their tails between their legs losing by double digits in 2000 to my Un-Ranked, middle of the road Bruins!

After that, Bama fell out of the rankings completely a few weeks later and they weren't ranked again until the start of the next season when they took on my Bruins again in Week 1. The Tide lost again, at home, to them Un-Ranked Bruins, and Bama wasn't ranked again until the middle of the following season in 2002!
Hard to blame them for not wanting to travel West after that type of devastation!

Good times man, thanks for the memories!

 

[SJ76]

Yes I'm sure Nick Saban and BAMA has been scared of them Pac 12 boys.

 

[Vitamike]

Yes I'm sure Nick Saban and BAMA has been scared of them Pac 12 boys.

SJ, the highly ranked Crimson Tide will finally be heading West to face one of the lessor 2015 PAC12 teams next season after 15 years of avoiding the Pacific Athletic Conference Twelve.

The Tide will be hosting the PAC's 2015 7th. place team in the USC Trojans at Jerry World in their season opener.

However, it wont be quite that far West to the Pacific as Bama just has this 'aversion' to travel.

(In the Tides FOUR away games this coming season, they will travel a total of 1,373 miles if we don't count their home game at Jerry World vs the Trojans. USC, in their SIX away games, <With ONE in LA> will travel more on that one trip to Texas <1,419 miles> than Bama will the entire season! Even if we do count the Jerry World trip for both, the Trojans will still travel more than twice as many miles <4,092> than Alabama <1,980> will on all road games plus the Texas trip! )

So maybe Saban isn't truly scared but he is more likely to play nobodies in Tuscaloosa, than anybody anywhere like the teams in the Conference of Champions routinely do!

Note: This coming season's finest home game of nobodies for Bama are either the 'Golden Flashes' or The 'Mocs', you tell me who they are by those nicknames. And if you know who at least one of those teams are by their nicknames, it's only because FSU pulls the same BS and scheduled the Mocs in Tallassee last year & won by a score of 52-13 I'll add. Great defense, right?

 

[shopson67]

The Golden Flash are Kent State, I knew that one lol. Had to look up the Mocs - Chattanooga.