We need a big bat: discuss

[msgkings322]

Crazy question: any interest in bringing back Beltran?

(Damn, that 2014 FA list is sad)

Youre kidding re Beltran right? although this FO does love bringing in super old FA bats

The FA cupboard is pretty thin agreed. the new trend is to lock up the young studs so they dont get to free agency: Posey, Bumgarner, Longoria, Tulo, etc. so developing your own has never been more important

 

[calsnowskier]

Crazy question: any interest in bringing back Beltran?

(Damn, that 2014 FA list is sad)

I doubt it. His act wouldn't fit in the Giants clubhouse, I don't think.

Also, his off-season strategy does not mesh with the off-season strategy of the G's. The G's like to act fast, Tranny likes to wait out the market.

 

[tzill]

Crazy question: any interest in bringing back Beltran?

(Damn, that 2014 FA list is sad)

Agreed re: the 2014 FA list. Yet another reason to lock up Gangle for 3/45 and dumpster dive for a LF.

 

[msgkings322]

Agreed re: the 2014 FA list. Yet another reason to lock up Gangle for 3/45 and dumpster dive for a LF.

with the list that thin does 3/45 get it done? more like 3/51 or 4/60

 

[Mays-Fan]

Agreed re: the 2014 FA list. Yet another reason to lock up Gangle for 3/45 and dumpster dive for a LF.

But that is essentially treading water. IMHO, if we are to compete for the division championship, we have to do better than a de facto status quo.

(He said in a flurry of Latin idioms).

 

[tzill]

with the list that thin does 3/45 get it done? more like 3/51 or 4/60

I think Gangle takes a bit less to stay in SF. He likes us, we like him. The hometown discount is fairly rare, but in this case I think it happens.

 

[tzill]

But that is essentially treading water. IMHO, if we are to compete for the division championship, we have to do better than a de facto status quo.

(He said in a flurry of Latin idioms).

I think we will be better next year, even if we return mostly the same roster:

1. BB9 seems to be breaking out
2. Stamos is improving
3. Panda will have a contract year
4. Oxy won't be hurt all year
5. Cain won't implode the first half
6. Freak seems to have figured out how to pitch
7. Tron won't suck/be hurt all year


That alone seems like a playoff team to me. We'll see what SabeySabes does about LF.

 

[calsnowskier]

I think we will be better next year, even if we return mostly the same roster:

1. BB9 seems to be breaking out
2. Stamos is improving
3. Panda will have a contract year
4. Oxy won't be hurt all year
5. Cain won't implode the first half
6. Freak seems to have figured out how to pitch
7. Tron won't suck/be hurt all year


That alone seems like a playoff team to me. We'll see what SabeySabes does about LF.

Vogey is a stretch, but I am getting more and more confident tat we can treat the #5 SP the way we did in '10. Escobar looks like he may be ready to take that spot by md-season.

Speaking of the #5 SP spot in '10, you failed to mention Bum holding down the #1/#2 spot in the rotation. I realize that isn't a variable or an improvement from this year, but it is still a major cog in the system for next year. Same deal with Craw and Posey. Scoots is always a bit of a worry, but I think we are deep enough at 2B to weather that storm if it comes. Arias, Abreu, Noonan, Adrianza (is he out of options now?)...

 

[calsnowskier]

I am still not thrilled with Le Grope in the rotation, though. He would do fine as a #5, but not a 4. He seems to hit the wall at about 85 pitches, and that can be taxing on the bully. I would LOVE to have him as a 5, 6, or long guy, though.

 

[Mays-Fan]

I think we will be better next year, even if we return mostly the same roster:

1. BB9 seems to be breaking out
2. Stamos is improving
3. Panda will have a contract year
4. Oxy won't be hurt all year
5. Cain won't implode the first half
6. Freak seems to have figured out how to pitch
7. Tron won't suck/be hurt all year


That alone seems like a playoff team to me. We'll see what SabeySabes does about LF.

Every rule has its exception, but it seems to me that teams needs at least some infusion of new talent every year. I think otherwise teams get too complacent and too comfortable with each other. Teams need new energy every year - old guys showing the new guys that they still have it, new guys wanting to prove they can play a part, too. IMHO.

 

[SF11704]

I think we will be better next year, even if we return mostly the same roster:

1. BB9 seems to be breaking out
2. Stamos is improving
3. Panda will have a contract year
4. Oxy won't be hurt all year
5. Cain won't implode the first half
6. Freak seems to have figured out how to pitch
7. Tron won't suck/be hurt all year


That alone seems like a playoff team to me. We'll see what SabeySabes does about LF.

While I agree we will be better I also have to ask are the doggies for real? Going 42-8 over the last 50 games is a frightening pace. you can't write it off to 'dumb luck'. I don't expect them to play at that level continually but you do have to ask ... what will their level of play be in 2014.

 

[tzill]

I am still not thrilled with Le Grope in the rotation, though. He would do fine as a #5, but not a 4. He seems to hit the wall at about 85 pitches, and that can be taxing on the bully. I would LOVE to have him as a 5, 6, or long guy, though.

With Bum/Cain/Freak/Tron, Grope would be the #5

 

[calsnowskier]

With Bum/Cain/Freak/Tron, Grope would be the #5

Depending on Vogey being anything more than a windfall is a mistake. If we go in with him inked in as the #4, our rotation will be a variable again.

No thanks.

 

[tzill]

Depending on Vogey being anything more than a windfall is a mistake. If we go in with him inked in as the #4, our rotation will be a variable again.

No thanks.

What if he puts together 5 straight QS to end the season, then do you re-evaluate?

 

[calsnowskier]

What if he puts together 5 straight QS to end the season, then do you re-evaluate?

Of course. I have already said that.

But from what we have seen so far, I am not comfortable going into '14 with him inked as the 4.

His performance this year has been downright dreadful.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Depending on Vogey being anything more than a windfall is a mistake. If we go in with him inked in as the #4, our rotation will be a variable again.

No thanks.

I agree. Vogey being acceptable as a #4 is one of those coin flips that has to come up heads for us to contend. And I think that coin is skewed to come up tails.

 

[tzill]

I agree. Vogey being acceptable as a #4 is one of those coin flips that has to come up heads for us to contend. And I think that coin is skewed to come up tails.

Disagree. He could suck, Surkamp could come up and be acceptable, and Bum could win the Cy Young. Or Cain/Bum/Freak could all be all-stars. Or Panda could be the MVP and hit .350 or....etc etc etc.

 

[calsnowskier]

I know we need to have pleasant surprises to happen if we want to win it all. That is a given.

But to expect us to find another Vogey (even if Vogey is the next Vogey), PTMFB, Sorry Doc, Torres, Scutaro, Huff, etc, and further, to enter these into the equation to start the year is a HUGE mistake.

Timmeh being a valid 3 is a safe bet. Vogey as a 4 is a roll of the dice. Bum being a CY candidate is a stretch, but certainly possible. Planning on picking up the next Andres Torres off the trash heap is a lottery ticket.

I would rather us close up as many holes as possible at the start with some room for surprises than PLAN and DEPEND on the surprises.

 

[dubabay]

I don't think the Giants will make any big splash in FA unless they can't resign Pence or Tim.

The Giants will bank on improving the offense with Pablo being Pablo on a contract year and Belt finally breaking out the way he's been doing for the past couple of months, that along with Buster, Pence and having Pagan back. They'll most likely sign a RF, but I highly doubt it's going to be Choo, Ellsbury or another high proced FA, maybe a small trade with some upside like a Melky Cabrera type deal. Of course if they can't resign Pence they'll have to spend, but if they bring him back I don't expect a big FA splash.

Same with pitching, if they resign Tim we'll probably see a rotation with Cain, MadBum, Tim, Vogey and Gaudin or maybe bring some low risk - high reward pitcher like a Phil Hughes just to put an example. Maybe bring a a 6th pitcher for depth (something they missed this year), or maybe some pitcher from the minors like Edwin Escobar could be ready to contribute. Of course if they can't bring Tim back they'll have to use that money for a middle of the rotation arm, but like in Pence case, the priority will be resigning him.

So in a few words I don't think the Giants will or should change their philosophy that has worked in the past years, using their money to lock their guys. The Giants aren't the Dodgers and lets remember that next year they'll probably have to spend to keep Panda, Buster's and MadBum's salaries are escalating and Belt and Crawford will get raises on arbitration (especially the way Belt is closing the season, if he can finally break out it's going to be huge for this team). It's the best way to keep a cost effective operation now that FA contracts are totally out of control.

 

[msgkings322]

I don't think the Giants will make any big splash in FA unless they can't resign Pence or Tim.

The Giants will bank on improving the offense with Pablo being Pablo on a contract year and Belt finally breaking out the way he's been doing for the past couple of months, that along with Buster, Pence and having Pagan back. They'll most likely sign a RF, but I highly doubt it's going to be Choo, Ellsbury or another high proced FA, maybe a small trade with some upside like a Melky Cabrera type deal. Of course if they can't resign Pence they'll have to spend, but if they bring him back I don't expect a big FA splash.

Same with pitching, if they resign Tim we'll probably see a rotation with Cain, MadBum, Tim, Vogey and Gaudin or maybe bring some low risk - high reward pitcher like a Phil Hughes just to put an example. Maybe bring a a 6th pitcher for depth (something they missed this year), or maybe some pitcher from the minors like Edwin Escobar could be ready to contribute. Of course if they can't bring Tim back they'll have to use that money for a middle of the rotation arm, but like in Pence case, the priority will be resigning him.

So in a few words I don't think the Giants will or should change their philosophy that has worked in the past years, using their money to lock their guys. The Giants aren't the Dodgers and lets remember that next year they'll probably have to spend to keep Panda, Buster's and MadBum's salaries are escalating and Belt and Crawford will get raises on arbitration (especially the way Belt is closing the season, if he can finally break out it's going to be huge for this team). It's the best way to keep a cost effective operation now that FA contracts are totally out of control.

This sums it up almost perfectly.

I still hope they get something better than the parade of suck to go in the outfield next to Pence and Pagan but I agree it won't be another big name especially if they do re-sign Tim and Hunter.

I started this thread before Belt's breakout. If that's for real, he's the new big bat.

Pagan CF (or LF)
Scutaro 2B
Belt 1B
Posey C
Panda or Pence
Pence or Panda
Crawford
Random LF
Pitcher

That's not a bad lineup. We do still have the where to put Belt problem once a week. He's gotta make do in left I think.