We need a big bat: discuss

[calsnowskier]

BDD, I mentioned the D at 2B.

Our 2B is Scutaro. He is fine. We also have Panik in the minors who should be ready for his first taste sometime next year, and probably ready to take over by mid-'15.

Cano will be a Pooholes / Sham-ilton type FA. No thanks.

 

[calsnowskier]

tz, looking at '10 as a way to build your team has LOTS of faults.

That team had next to ZERO injuries, and we hit a grand-slam with every minor move we made that year.

Welle was signed to start the season, had a few semi-OK starts, then got hurt. Bum came up and the rest is history. Welle was released.

We signed Mo for 1 year, and when Posey was ready, we were able to find a taker for his contract.

Sorry Doc fell in our laps by mistake, and he carried the team in the post-season.

Andres Torres' got his ADD meds figured out.

Burrell had one can of spinach left is his bag.

We already had the all-time elite pitching in place with essentially four Aces, an elite closer and 2 elite set-up guys.


If you REALLY expect a calendar year to pan out like that again, well, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[BigDDude]

BDD, I mentioned the D at 2B.

Our 2B is Scutaro. He is fine. We also have Panik in the minors who should be ready for his first taste sometime next year, and probably ready to take over by mid-'15.

Cano will be a Pooholes / Sham-ilton type FA. No thanks.

Oh the overall irony!

The guy who has a subtitle of sarcastic f wad is the same guy that breaks things down for me so well and succintly.

Thank you kind sir. Seriously.

 

[BigDDude]

tz, looking at '10 as a way to build your team has LOTS of faults.

That team had next to ZERO injuries, and we hit a grand-slam with every minor move we made that year.

Welle was signed to start the season, had a few semi-OK starts, then got hurt. Bum came up and the rest is history. Welle was released.

We signed Mo for 1 year, and when Posey was ready, we were able to find a taker for his contract.

Sorry Doc fell in our laps by mistake, and he carried the team in the post-season.

Andres Torres' got his ADD meds figured out.

Burrell had one can of spinach left is his bag.

We already had the all-time elite pitching in place with essentially four Aces, an elite closer and 2 elite set-up guys.


If you REALLY expect a calendar year to pan out like that again, well, I don't know what to tell you.

Is there a team and or blueprint you would want the Giants to follow?

 

[msgkings322]

Is there a team and or blueprint you would want the Giants to follow?

Yeah, the 2012 Giants. Pick up a FA left fielder and let er rip.

 

[msgkings322]

tz, looking at '10 as a way to build your team has LOTS of faults.

That team had next to ZERO injuries, and we hit a grand-slam with every minor move we made that year.

Welle was signed to start the season, had a few semi-OK starts, then got hurt. Bum came up and the rest is history. Welle was released.

We signed Mo for 1 year, and when Posey was ready, we were able to find a taker for his contract.

Sorry Doc fell in our laps by mistake, and he carried the team in the post-season.

Andres Torres' got his ADD meds figured out.

Burrell had one can of spinach left is his bag.

We already had the all-time elite pitching in place with essentially four Aces, an elite closer and 2 elite set-up guys.


If you REALLY expect a calendar year to pan out like that again, well, I don't know what to tell you.

Cal, on this you are my brother from another mother

 

[BigDDude]

Yeah, the 2012 Giants. Pick up a FA left fielder and let er rip.

You think they are just a left fielder away from contending again?

 

[msgkings322]

You think they are just a left fielder away from contending again?

I think we were a couple of injuries away from competing this year, it's the same team as 2012

this year has shown that we need another bat though. If we stay reasonably healthy this team, with Pagan and Vogelsong back and one more OF should be in the mix

 

[calsnowskier]

You think they are just a left fielder away from contending again?

We need a SP as well, but essentially, yes.

We came into the year with 2 legit OFers and a platoon. When one of the OFers went down, both platoon guys became starters, and hilarity ensued.

We also had Cain hit the first prolonged speed-bump of his career at the same time that the fumes in Zitos tank finally evaporated and Vogey went to the WBC.

Are we a 100 win team? No.

Are we a 95 win team? No.

Are we an 11 win team? Yes.

 

[BigDDude]

We need a SP as well, but essentially, yes.

We came into the year with 2 legit OFers and a platoon. When one of the OFers went down, both platoon guys became starters, and hilarity ensued.

We also had Cain hit the first prolonged speed-bump of his career at the same time that the fumes in Zitos tank finally evaporated and Vogey went to the WBC.

Are we a 100 win team? No.

Are we a 95 win team? No.

Are we an 11 win team? Yes.

And, if memory serves, in the N.L west, 90 wins usually gets it done, so.......? That, and with the Giants now on the every other year plan, I like their chances.

 

[calsnowskier]

And, if memory serves, in the N.L west, 90 wins usually gets it done, so.......? That, and with the Giants now on the every other year plan, I like their chances.

Not sure the West is a 90-win division anymore (moving forward).

The Snakes are a solid org and the LA Yankees are now a perennial.

We are a team that is built to win 11, not 162. That has benefits and detractions. One of those detractions is that we sometimes don't get the option to win 11.

 

[tzill]

Man, I hear you and I agree mostly. But the bolded is where your logic runs aground. If we have to pick up a FA (I think so, you I can't tell), we will HAVE TO overpay, because that's how it works these days, especially for us.

If you think we have enough without changing anything from this team we see play every day, save adding Pagan back...I just can't agree. And I also can't agree with the idea that Peggs/RK/whomever will do it.

So that's why I'm where I'm at: I think we need someone from outside the org, and to get that someone we will have to overpay in trade or overpay a FA.

The other choice is to me just praying for a miracle, which usually doesn't happen, and hope that we can make it work in 2015. I just feel when you have a window you gotta keep hammering it until you don't.

Now, the flipside (and you alluded to it), is if you avoid overpaying you can maintain at least a decent team for years and years, because you are always marshalling your resources well and so you always have good prospects in the pipeline, I get that. But if you are one piece away, which I think we are, dammit you gotta just get that piece. Money you save not overpaying a FA to get 'other FAs'? You're gonna have to overpay them too...that's where the sport is. The good ones get locked up young like Posey, Longoria, etc, so the FA pool each year is thin. Add in AT&T and that's what we deal with.

Chad Gaudin and Ryan Vogelsong say "hi."

 

[msgkings322]

Chad Gaudin and Ryan Vogelsong say "hi."

Those are pitchers. AT&T park says hi back at you.

 

[calsnowskier]

Looks like Vogey, el Grope and AT&T Park are having a very cordial conversation over there...

 

[tzill]

tz, looking at '10 as a way to build your team has LOTS of faults.

That team had next to ZERO injuries, and we hit a grand-slam with every minor move we made that year.

Welle was signed to start the season, had a few semi-OK starts, then got hurt. Bum came up and the rest is history. Welle was released.

We signed Mo for 1 year, and when Posey was ready, we were able to find a taker for his contract.

Sorry Doc fell in our laps by mistake, and he carried the team in the post-season.

Andres Torres' got his ADD meds figured out.

Burrell had one can of spinach left is his bag.

We already had the all-time elite pitching in place with essentially four Aces, an elite closer and 2 elite set-up guys.


If you REALLY expect a calendar year to pan out like that again, well, I don't know what to tell you.

You misrepresent my argument. It isn't that I expect another 2010. I chose that year to disprove your "overpaying FAs is necessary to contend" argument. Not ONE overpaid FA was necessary to contend that year. I haven't looked at 2012, but I'd bet something similar was afoot. The key is to develop talent within, as it will always be cheapest. Second, judicious signing of FAs to augment your (homegrown) core. Third, smart trades to supplement at the deadline.

I don't expect every minor move to be Gaudinesque, but I trust that if SabeySabes makes enough of them some will end up terrific, and the others will be low risk DFAs. His track record for trades is pretty damn good, and we've finally started to produce hitters as well as pitchers in the minors. Let's say Choo will cost 5/90 (I think that's where the market will go). I say hell no! Waaaay too much scratch for a good but not great player. That'd be 18MM a year we can't spend elsewhere.

I'd prefer to stay the course, overpay a bit for Gangle, JLo and Grope, and go medium priced FA to fill LF. And who knows? Maybe Peggs or Kiesh or JC will step up.

 

[tzill]

Those are pitchers. AT&T park says hi back at you.

Ok, then 2010 Aubrey Huff says "hello," as well as PTMFB and Ssory Doc.

In 2012, Riot and Melkman say "howdy."

 

[calsnowskier]

Obviously, building from within is the overall strategy that should be implemented. I think everyone agrees with that. However, that will do nothing for 2014.

This team should not go into '14 with only 2 OFers. If we can GUARENTEE that those two will not be injured, than OK. the 3rd spot can by used for a platoon or constant kid-tryout. However, (1) that guarantee cannot be made, (2) we are a contender, and (3) we don't have any kids that deserve the spot to remain "empty" while they complete the final stage of development (Belt, Posey). We have a slew of 4th OF types that can fill in (Pegs, Perez, RK, Brown, Dominguez, Blanco, etc), but none that I would be comfortable with moving forward at this point as "The Guy".

Is 5/90 too much for Choo? Probably. And if it got to that point, I think I would be OK with the org passing. My high contract that I mentioned was 5/80.

Again, I also emphasize that if we do not have a protected pick, we should not go after Choo.


Side note...

I like Choo more than Ellsbury, but who will be the more sought-after FA? Will they end up killing each other's markets?

 

[Stokes1931]

We need a SP as well, but essentially, yes.

We came into the year with 2 legit OFers and a platoon. When one of the OFers went down, both platoon guys became starters, and misery ensued.

We also had Cain hit the first prolonged speed-bump of his career at the same time that the fumes in Zitos tank finally evaporated and Vogey went to the WBC.

Are we a 100 win team? No.

Are we a 95 win team? No.

Are we an 11 win team? Yes.

FIFY

 

[tzill]

Obviously, building from within is the overall strategy that should be implemented. I think everyone agrees with that. However, that will do nothing for 2014.

This team should not go into '14 with only 2 OFers. If we can GUARENTEE that those two will not be injured, than OK. the 3rd spot can by used for a platoon or constant kid-tryout. However, (1) that guarantee cannot be made, (2) we are a contender, and (3) we don't have any kids that deserve the spot to remain "empty" while they complete the final stage of development (Belt, Posey). We have a slew of 4th OF types that can fill in (Pegs, Perez, RK, Brown, Dominguez, Blanco, etc), but none that I would be comfortable with moving forward at this point as "The Guy".

Is 5/90 too much for Choo? Probably. And if it got to that point, I think I would be OK with the org passing. My high contract that I mentioned was 5/80.

Again, I also emphasize that if we do not have a protected pick, we should not go after Choo.


Side note...

I like Choo more than Ellsbury, but who will be the more sought-after FA? Will they end up killing each other's markets?

I wouldn't sweat the pick if we could get Choo to around $15MM per. I don't think we'll get that though. As for Ellsbury, he's going to command a 9 figure contract. Choo won't be in his range.

 

[dubabay]

We have a power bat that could be great if he wanted to, his name is Pablo Sandoval. The problem is him wanting to be that great bat, when he decided to be in a better shape (2009, 2011) he was great putting all star numbers, unfortunately there's the years when he decides not to care and eat the whole country of Venezuela in the winter and he struggles (2010,2012 besides the WS, 2013).

If we could get 2009 2011 Panda this lineup would be so much better, that and Pagan.