Waving the white flag on the Heat season

[WiggyRuss]

and really, 26 is not exactly "young" for an NBA player and Whiteside will be 26 by the time the NBA draft starts in June.- he has room to grow- but he does not have the room to grow a Gobert or Kanter or Drummond does- the guys that are like 3-4 years younger.

 

[WiggyRuss]

id take Kanter, Gobert, Drummond, and maybe Vucevic over him as far as young centers are concerned.

as far as the whole NBA center wise- you HAVE to add Cousins, Jordan, Gasol, Noah, Horford to that list


theres a few other guys id have to look at- but would probably end upsiding with Whiteside over them- Valuncuinas , Dwight howard, Alex Len, Embiid, Asik- but would really have to look at it more in depth- age, contact, stats, attitude, injury history, coachability etc.....

*obviously who knows on Embiid- reports are not great

but if you offered me Embiid- and his talent/contract status/upside/coachability/attitude

or if you offered me Whiteside- and his talent/contract status/upside/coachability/attitude

id just have to take Embiid- though he hasnt walked on the court yet.


Laker fans- if the Heat offered you Whiteside for Randle do you do it? I sure dont if i a Jimmy Buss

For the last 3 and a half months Whiteside has been very good- no doubt about it- He is already one of the elite shot blockers in the league, and he is also an elite rebounder, a great athlete who shoots a very high percentage around the basket- ohh yah- and he is a true seven-footer- those dont just grow on trees. I realize that this guy stands out in a league where every single player has to be a freak athlete to some degree. In those last 3 months he is shooting OVER 60% from the field while taking about 10 attempts per game- thats GREAT. He is a good offensive rebounder too.

That being said- he is going to be 26 before the end of the NBA season, despite this being a huge opportunity for him to establish himself as an NBA player- he has shown the attitude issues that kept him out of the league for so long in the first place. Not saying its his fault- who knows if its his fault- but he has been coached by his college coach at Marshall (not exactly Duke), a stint with the Kings right in the middle of their abysmall streak, and then overseas- he has not gotten world class coaching yet- lets see if this kid accepts it and can change the rep he had and learn- because when you see a guy like Kanter- who is a great kid, extremely coachable, and does everything he is told 110%, and has already developed some very nice post moves at the age of 22-- you trust that when you pay a guy like Kanter- he is not going to all of a sudden stop being coached, do what he wants, and act up. Whtieside just does not understand the finer points of the game yet- which is no surprise where he has been- but he bears a good portion of the responsibiltiy for that because his actions put him where he is. He was not "missed" by NBA coaches- he was ignored because of his attitude issues. Like i said earlier- he is the type of guy that gets your GM either a lucrative contract extension- or gets your GM fired- because no matter what anyone says- you DONT KNOW what you are going to get when you give this guy 3 years 45 million dollars (15 a year will not be that substantial for a big man of his talent level with the new CBA- he might get more- or if he implodes next year he might get far less)----

The Heat are in good shape with him in that- they have a full year to try and answer the question of how he will react to be a multimillionaire set for his entire life even if he ignores his coach and acts a fool. I like the Bynum comparison the Heat contigent made in a lot of ways.

like the kid a lot- really like his talent- what a great job for the Heat for getting him- again- to rehash the story really quick- teh heat signed him this offsason, released him- the Griz signed him- released him- and the Heat pounced on him and decided to offer him the 2year deal. They deserve credit for it- because without him they would have a frontcourt bereft of toughness and upside.

but- at least at this point- i would still take the kids with the talent, pedigree, work ethic- give me Enes Kanter or Rudy Gobert or Andre Drummond- those are easy decisions for those 3- it gets harder with Vucevic- it gets even harder with guys like Valuncuinas, Len, Embiid, Noel, Favors, Nurkic, Monroe, Randle, CZeller, Dieng, .....all of these guys are probably at least 2-3 years if not more - younger, and with less headaches and better contracts. -talent trumps all without a doubt- but how far does that talent gap have to be in order to put up with those headaches? - a VERY GOOD QUESITON...

 

[gordontrue]

So Miami owes Philly its pick if they finish outside top-10 draft picks...

So if Miami beats Philly tonight... and the Magic beat the Nets.... then a coin-flip will determine positioning between Miami and Brooklyn... essentially meaning a coin-flip determines whether Miami or Philly get the pick.

That is some weird stuff. This Miami Philly game might be as compelling as the Spurs Pelicans or Grizzlies Pacers games.

 

[PhightinIrish]

Get ready for some of this! Sixers should bring fans out to play

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

and really, 26 is not exactly "young" for an NBA player and Whiteside will be 26 by the time the NBA draft starts in June.- he has room to grow- but he does not have the room to grow a Gobert or Kanter or Drummond does- the guys that are like 3-4 years younger.

That's total garbage.
You act like he's been in the NBA for 3-5 years and hasn't grown as a player.

Reality is his game has improved leaps and bounds in only a few weeks, playing with a new PG who stated he wasn't in sync with the bigs yet, maybe 2 weeks ago.


Then we have this:

"I have never said this in the 40 years since I retired," Cousy said in a recent telephone interview, "but he is the first big guy, not (Patrick) Ewing, (Hakeem) Olajuwon, Shaq (O'Neal), who reminds me defensively and on the boards of Russell. He runs the floor well, he has excellent timing, he blocks shots and keeps them in play the way Russell did."

What.

"I don't get excited too often about these guys," Cousy said, "but this kid looks to me like a turn-around guy.

"This kid moves to every rebound, he just reacts to everything on the defensive boards and he reacts the way Russell did. He leaves his man and comes over to help. He'll block five or six shots a game and he catches them. The league hasn't caught up with him yet."



So, in conclusion, I'm more apt to go with the opinion of an unbiased NBA HOF and my own eyes vs the opinion of a very biased Cavs fan who tries to find a negative into everything the Heat have done.

That doesn't mean the other centers you named aren't also very good and have tremendous upside, but Whiteside's upside is as good or better then any on the list.

 

[trojanfan12]

So, in conclusion, I'm more apt to go with the opinion of an unbiased NBA HOF and my own eyes vs the opinion of a very biased Cavs fan who tries to find a negative into everything the Heat have done.

Lots of fear in his posts. If Miami is healthy next year, they are a real threat in the East. Especially if Whiteside continues to play well.

I don't think having Whiteside, D-Wade, Bosh and Dragic for a full season after a full training camp would necessarily make Miami the favorites in the East, but the Heat coming out of the East wouldn't exactly be an upset.

If I'm a Heat fan, I can't wait for next season to see what these guys can do.

 

[GenJac]

I'm no Heat fan but... this year was far more exciting for me to watch them. The Heat weren't anywhere close to being as talented but it was a fun season. I saw D-Wade prove that he is still able to be the go to guy, I saw Riley make big moves and I saw Hassan Whiteside come out of nowhere to be a top 5 center going forward.

The Miami Heat may not have won that many games but they played hard tough basketball. They probably would have been the 4th seed of not for all the injuries I think. Next year I think they can actually be where they have been the last decade tho. Playing as a contender with Riley proving yet again he is the best basketball mind in the nba.

 

[logic]

Riley proving yet again he is the best basketball mind in the nba.

When did Pop retire?

 

[gordontrue]

I have an idea for the Heat Sixers game tonight...

Have the Heat suit up as the Sixers and the Sixers suit up as the Heat. Then they can both try their hardest to beat themselves.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I have an idea for the Heat Sixers game tonight...

Have the Heat suit up as the Sixers and the Sixers suit up as the Heat. Then they can both try their hardest to beat themselves.

Don't be hatin' on the Beasley show.

Brooklyn SHOULD win, but you never know.
Even if we do win and Brooklyn loses, it would come down to a coin toss for draft positions, but hopefully the Heat won't let it come down to that.

That being said, the players on the court will try their hardest.

 

[trojanfan12]

B-easy gonna drop 30 on they haids tonight.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

B-easy gonna drop 30 on they haids tonight.

Gonna be a fun Fan Duel night.


Should also be the Mike Miller/James Jones show.

 

[GNG]

Missing the playoffs may very well be a blessing in disguise as we know get to keep our top 10 pick which will be 10th or higher.

The injuries were just too much.

No team had more devastating injuries than the Milwaukee Bucks and they still made the playoffs.

 

[GNG]

Boo fucking hoo. You got to watch your team play in 4 straight finals, give me a break

I agree, nobody is crying over this except Heat fans.

 

[lakersrule]

No team had more devastating injuries than the Milwaukee Bucks and they still made the playoffs.

The Lakers, for the second season in a row, will end the season with the most games lost due to injury (339 games).

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I agree, nobody is crying over this except Heat fans.

What posts are you referring to?

We have all accepted that this season is what it is.

We're loving the thought of moving forward with a top 10 PG and dominant center.

The thought of a top 10 pick has been the preference for most, if not all of us vs playing 4-5 playoffs games.


Of any fan base, after the last 4 years, we'll gladly give them a free pass this season.

The immediate future is very, very, bright.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Lots of fear in his posts. If Miami is healthy next year, they are a real threat in the East. Especially if Whiteside continues to play well.

I don't think having Whiteside, D-Wade, Bosh and Dragic for a full season after a full training camp would necessarily make Miami the favorites in the East, but the Heat coming out of the East wouldn't exactly be an upset.

If I'm a Heat fan, I can't wait for next season to see what these guys can do.

so you would trade Randle for Whiteside?-

I cannot say enough apparently that I think Whiteside has a lot of talent- that is apparent- I am just saying he is not as good as these Heat fans make him out to be- and that id rather have fellow centers- that are actually 3-4 years younger- Andre Drummond, Rudy Gobert, Nikola Vucevic and Enes Kanter-----and that I would rather have established centers DeAdnre Jordan, Joakim Noah, Al Horford, Marc Gasol, DeMarcus Cousins-

That would put Whiteside right about #10- and i think you would hear Suns fans make good arguments for a young guy like Len, GSW fans make good arguments for a vet like Bogut and how he being healthy has transformed their defense, Their is no denying that Brook Lopez has looked great since coming back, the Raptors fans would tell you how VAlunciunas is a future all star that gives 110%, is a great kid, and is still extremely raw.....

SO- again- I like Whiteside- i think he is good- but to me- there 9 guys i put over him in terms of guys i would rather take right off the bat when looking at all the concerns- ability, contract status, attitude, coachability, athleticism, work ethic etc.

I am sorry if Heat fans take it as a slight that I think Nikola Vucevic- the Magic's best player and the focus of the other team- who is about a year and a half younger than Whiteside, and is putting up 19.2 points and 11 boards a night.

I am sorry if Heat fans take it as a slight that I would rather have Rudy Gobert- who has been a transformative defender since he started getting big playoff time, is only 22 years old- is under contract and then is restricted- has had a great attitude and carries a lot less risk.- the last 2 months (since Kanter was dealt and Gobert really took over)- Gobert- in March went for 11 points, 15 boards, 2.3 blocks, 2 assists, a game- Whiteside was at 12 points, 10 boards, 0.1 assits and 2.6 blocks in March---- In april Gobert is at about 13, 13, 2 and 2- while Whiteside is at about 17, 13, 3 and 0...- going forward both of these guys have REALLY Bright futures- they are very similar players- but if i had to pick- i pick the guy that is 3 years younger, has the better contract and better attitude and less risk.

Enes Kanter- another young center I like more- again- both are very close ability wise- Kanter in OKC has gone for 18 and 11- is 3 years younger- has a better attitude and work ethic and carries less risk- both are very similar talent wise- Kanter is definitely the better offensive player while Whiteside is definitely a much better rim protector- but overall- very similar talent wise- andi would take the guy with all the intangibles on his side.

Andre Drummond? Best young big in the game hands down inmy opinion. unlike Whiteside who has done this for about three and a half months- Drummond has been great for 2 years- and the crazy thing is Drummond is only 21 years old- over 4 years younger than Whiteside- once Josh Smith was gone this guy has been freaking unreal- the last few months? 15, 15 and 2.6 in April, 16, 15 and 1.5 in March, 16, 13, 1.5 in February- Whiteside?- 17, 13, and 3 in April, 12, 10, 2.6 in March, 15, 13, 2.5 in Feb----Whiteside is REALLY good- but he does not get near the attention Drummond does- and Drummond has a proven track record- and practically unlimited upside----I take Drummond on talent alone (over just about anyway at that position)- but when you factor in his contract status, his proven track record etc.- it makes it a REALLY EASY choice

Noah, Cousins, Gasol, Horford, Jordan go without saying for me....

so in summation- i think Whiteside is a very good player- but give me Noah, Cousins, Gasol, HHorford, Jordan, Kanter, Drummond, Vucevic, Gobert over him- if someone could explain to me how i am being a "hater" of this guy, or have some illegitmate concerns about his future ability to consitently be very good when compared to these other guys- let me know--

 

[WiggyRuss]

Lots of fear in his posts. If Miami is healthy next year, they are a real threat in the East. Especially if Whiteside continues to play well.

I don't think having Whiteside, D-Wade, Bosh and Dragic for a full season after a full training camp would necessarily make Miami the favorites in the East, but the Heat coming out of the East wouldn't exactly be an upset.

If I'm a Heat fan, I can't wait for next season to see what these guys can do.

5 or 6 seed probably. -Cavs will at the very least still have Bron and Kyrie, Bulls are better, Hawks, -should be in that 2nd tier with Raptrs/Wiz and maybe the Bucks if Parker comes back healthy and is as good as everyone thinks he is and they add a piece in free agency...The Pacers should also be in that second tier with Miami with Paul George coming back and some of their own cap flexibility- I really think George has the ability to possibly be in a group of players that is conisdered the second best player in the East....

really like the Bucks future with Giannis and Parker too- Middleton is a stud as well.

 

[Flauge]

Dragic, Wade, Deng, Bosh, Whiteside is a top 5 starting 5 in the NBA right now. Add McRoberts and Chlamers and you have a really good top 7. Miami hits on a draft pick (if they get one)... Miami could be a VERY dangerous team come next year. Avoiding any bad injuries (Bosh) and managing Wade's minutes are the keys for Miami (assuming Dragic resigns).

Cleveland is good.. But good luck. That Spurs team took apart Miami last year and Bosh/Wade actually play defense. Good luck with Love/Irving.

 

[trojanfan12]

Dragic, Wade, Deng, Bosh, Whiteside is a top 5 starting 5 in the NBA right now. Add McRoberts and Chlamers and you have a really good top 7. Miami hits on a draft pick (if they get one)... Miami could be a VERY dangerous team come next year. Avoiding any bad injuries (Bosh) and managing Wade's minutes are the keys for Miami (assuming Dragic resigns).

Cleveland is good.. But good luck. That Spurs team took apart Miami last year and Bosh/Wade actually play defense. Good luck with Love/Irving.

Now you've gone and done it. The 3 post 250,000 word novel about how improved Irving is defensively that we are about to be hit with is on YOUR head.