Waving the white flag on the Heat season

[WiggyRuss]

Just can't help embarrassing yourself, can you?

yah- i forgot the Shaq and Wade- you are def right there....I was looking at everything from the time the Heat were brought into the elague up until Lebron was drafted-

during that time period the Cavs were a better franchsie without a doubt.

 

[bksballer89]

yah- i forgot the Shaq and Wade- you are def right there....I was looking at everything from the time the Heat were brought into the elague up until Lebron was drafted-

during that time period the Cavs were a better franchsie without a doubt.

LMAO you're a clown

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

lol- The Cavs teams with Daughtery, Price, Hot Rod, Ehlo, Larry Nance had some very very good teams.


dude....Whitside is a good pickup- but please- if you offered him for a top 10 pick you would get laughed off the phone- a guy with 1 year left on his contract with no Bird Rights with his reputation for being an asshole?

The guy no doubt has talent- but teams knew about him- granted- if they knew he could produce like that more would have called- but its not like Whitside was unknown coming out ofcollege and was simply missed- we saw evidence of this during the season- No one in their right mind would trade a substantial asset for Whiteside considering his history and contract status.

You think?

You're team just traded the #1 pick from last years draft for a player who basically meets every criteria you just mentioned.
Whiteside though is an athletic 7 footer with an ever longer wingspan.

Love is what, and has done what though?

 

[WiggyRuss]

the Dragic pickup was brilliant. i watched miami's offense pre-dragic and it was just slow, disjointed, plodding,- Dragic totally transformed them offensively- he is so damn efficeint to its crazy. He really was the perfect pickup

I like Whiteside as I have said- but his contract status and his attitude present some questions whether he is a long term solution- or just short term help.

As the Heat do not have Bird rights- next year they will have a big decision to make

you have Bosh, Dragic and Wade- making a probably a combined 60 million (25 about for bosh, 15 about for Wade, 20 for Dragic)...the cap- after next year is supposed to go up to like 91 million.

that gives them room for one more substantial player- and then with room to add supplemental pieces

is that piece Whiteside? say whiteside demands 12 million- which is actually fairly low for a solid big man under the new CBA....but lets just say thats what it is....3 years 36.........

are you comfortable giving that guy "FU" money and counting on him to be one of your core players? its a big question

 

[trojanfan12]

yah- i forgot the Shaq and Wade- you are def right there....I was looking at everything from the time the Heat were brought into the elague up until Lebron was drafted-

during that time period the Cavs were a better franchsie without a doubt.

There were some Riley coached Heat teams with Zo and Hardaway that I'd put ahead of those Cavs teams. Specifically 1996-97 to 2001.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

LMAO you're a clown

Wiggys quite the NBA historian.

I lived in Cleveland during the years he was talking about.
Yes, they were decent teams ,but none ever had a player as good as Wade and or Shaq in their prime, and more importantly they never won anything.

The fact that he has to go back decades is funny enough.
The fact that he is wrong even going back decades is even funnier.

 

[trojanfan12]

Wiggys quite the NBA historian.

I lived in Cleveland during the years he was talking about.
Yes, they were decent teams ,but none ever had a player as good as Wade and or Shaq in their prime, and more importantly they never won anything.

The fact that he has to go back decades is funny enough.
The fact that he is wrong even going back decades is even funnier.

Well, he wouldn't be Wiggy without being wrong.

I loved watching those Cleveland teams, but as I pointed out, pretty much any of the Pat Riley coached Heat teams were better than those Cavs teams. For one, those Cavs teams were soft. Riley's Heat teams were mean as hell.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

the Dragic pickup was brilliant. i watched miami's offense pre-dragic and it was just slow, disjointed, plodding,- Dragic totally transformed them offensively- he is so damn efficeint to its crazy. He really was the perfect pickup

I like Whiteside as I have said- but his contract status and his attitude present some questions whether he is a long term solution- or just short term help.

As the Heat do not have Bird rights- next year they will have a big decision to make

you have Bosh, Dragic and Wade- making a probably a combined 60 million (25 about for bosh, 15 about for Wade, 20 for Dragic)...the cap- after next year is supposed to go up to like 91 million.

that gives them room for one more substantial player- and then with room to add supplemental pieces

is that piece Whiteside? say whiteside demands 12 million- which is actually fairly low for a solid big man under the new CBA....but lets just say thats what it is....3 years 36.........

are you comfortable giving that guy "FU" money and counting on him to be one of your core players? its a big question

We don't have to give Wade 15. Why not offer him 4 years for 30, and then just release and pay him for the final 2 years, or something like that?

And as far as Whiteside, you would be more correct if the Heat had to make that decision this summer, but they don't.
They now get to develope him for a whole summer, then monitor him next season

Assuming we stay healthy, Riley will know exactly how the Wade, Whiteside, Bosh, Dragic thing is looking.

I can't imsgine it looking anything but awesome.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You think?

You're team just traded the #1 pick from last years draft for a player who basically meets every criteria you just mentioned.
Whiteside though is an athletic 7 footer with an ever longer wingspan.

Love is what, and has done what though?

Love has made 3 all star teams, generally considered AT WORSt a top 3 player at his position, and is actually pretty close in age to Whiteside

Take these guys: Rudy Gobert, Jonas Valunciunas, Derrick Favors, Alex Len, Nerleans Noel, Andre Drummond, Cody Zeller,Nikola Vucevic, Julius Rnadle, Enes Kanter,

these are all guys that are younger than Whiteside, were highly touted coming out of college, had work ethics and character examinations that led teams to believe it was not a risk to spend a high pick them, and many have contract situations that are extremely advantageous to their team.

Lets just take Rudy Gobert for instance- but this can work with many guys- lets say Julius Randle too-----

Julius Randle by all reports was a great guy at Kentucky, worked hard, has a ton of talent, is extremely young with upside, and he will not be a restricted free agent for at least 4 years- and after that- its HIGHLY likely his own team keeps him if they want to keep him

contrast that with Whiteside- he will be 26 before this next NBA draft- he bounced around every league on the planet- not because of his lack of talent- but because of his bad attitude, his contract status is totally up in the air- not only does he not have Bird Rights- but its not like he is even a restricted free agent with matching ability- he is an UNRESTRICTED free agent after this year

now- where it gets interesting is that- the Lakers would LOVE IT- if they got stat wise out of Randle what Whiteside has done for 3 and a half months (January, February, March, and half of April). Its OBVIOUS Whiteside has great ability.

If you are a team though- what would you rather have? Julius Randle- a young guy with the great rep, total control over the players contract at a very small cap figure for the next 4-5 years

or Whiteside- a guy who has shown great ability- though really its been less than 4 months- he is 26 years old- and his contract status is he is very cheap next year- a steal for what he gets paid next year- and after that he is an unrestricted free agent.

I will tell ya- even though guys like Gobert, Randle, Favors, Valunciunas, Kanter, Noel, etc- have not shown what Whiteside has shown the last 3 and a half months- id have to take those guys over Whiteside

and thats why i do not believe Whiteside would get a top 10 pick for the Heat.

 

[WiggyRuss]

We don't have to give Wade 15. Why not offer him 4 years for 30, and then just release and pay him for the final 2 years, or something like that?

And as far as Whiteside, you would be more correct if the Heat had to make that decision this summer, but they don't.
They now get to develope him for a whole summer, then monitor him next season

Assuming we stay healthy, Riley will know exactly how the Wade, Whiteside, Bosh, Dragic thing is looking.

I can't imsgine it looking anything but awesome.

probably because that is not legal- and it could result in some heavy heavy sanctions from the league.

I mean- if you think Wade will take like 10 a year- i mean- thats fine- thats your opinion- you know better then i do- Dirk and Duncan each play for like 10 a year- if you think Wade would take 10 a year- im not gonna fight you hard on that- but at the same time- i would think the Heat would take care of him- similar to the LAkers with Kobe- though they wont lose their minds like the Lakers did- I think 15 is a reasonable figure from both sides- especially considering where the cap is going. Kobe was given 24 with a 62 million- well over 1/3rd---- Wade if he made 15 with the cap at 90 would be making 1/6th

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Love has made 3 all star teams, generally considered AT WORSt a top 3 player at his position, and is actually pretty close in age to Whiteside

Take these guys: Rudy Gobert, Jonas Valunciunas, Derrick Favors, Alex Len, Nerleans Noel, Andre Drummond, Cody Zeller,Nikola Vucevic, Julius Rnadle, Enes Kanter,

these are all guys that are younger than Whiteside, were highly touted coming out of college, had work ethics and character examinations that led teams to believe it was not a risk to spend a high pick them, and many have contract situations that are extremely advantageous to their team.

Lets just take Rudy Gobert for instance- but this can work with many guys- lets say Julius Randle too-----

Julius Randle by all reports was a great guy at Kentucky, worked hard, has a ton of talent, is extremely young with upside, and he will not be a restricted free agent for at least 4 years- and after that- its HIGHLY likely his own team keeps him if they want to keep him

contrast that with Whiteside- he will be 26 before this next NBA draft- he bounced around every league on the planet- not because of his lack of talent- but because of his bad attitude, his contract status is totally up in the air- not only does he not have Bird Rights- but its not like he is even a restricted free agent with matching ability- he is an UNRESTRICTED free agent after this year

now- where it gets interesting is that- the Lakers would LOVE IT- if they got stat wise out of Randle what Whiteside has done for 3 and a half months (January, February, March, and half of April). Its OBVIOUS Whiteside has great ability.

If you are a team though- what would you rather have? Julius Randle- a young guy with the great rep, total control over the players contract at a very small cap figure for the next 4-5 years

or Whiteside- a guy who has shown great ability- though really its been less than 4 months- he is 26 years old- and his contract status is he is very cheap next year- a steal for what he gets paid next year- and after that he is an unrestricted free agent.

I will tell ya- even though guys like Gobert, Randle, Favors, Valunciunas, Kanter, Noel, etc- have not shown what Whiteside has shown the last 3 and a half months- id have to take those guys over Whiteside

and thats why i do not believe Whiteside would get a top 10 pick for the Heat.

As raw as Whiteside is, he's totally dominated some games as well as some top centers.
He basically fouled out the Raptors center in very few minutes the other night, and then dominated the Magic center yesterday.
In the past, both those players have destroyed us.

When watching the Cavs, you often can't even tell if Love is on the court, and often they CHOOSE to not play him in crunch time.


There aren't that many dominating centers in the game any more.
We finally have one.
Teams will be lining up to pay him if he improves off of this season and shows mental maturity.

Go back a couple years. Remember Bynum?
Whiteside has all the talent minus the bum knees.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

probably because that is not legal- and it could result in some heavy heavy sanctions from the league.

I mean- if you think Wade will take like 10 a year- i mean- thats fine- thats your opinion- you know better then i do- Dirk and Duncan each play for like 10 a year- if you think Wade would take 10 a year- im not gonna fight you hard on that- but at the same time- i would think the Heat would take care of him- similar to the LAkers with Kobe- though they wont lose their minds like the Lakers did- I think 15 is a reasonable figure from both sides- especially considering where the cap is going. Kobe was given 24 with a 62 million- well over 1/3rd---- Wade if he made 15 with the cap at 90 would be making 1/6th

Unlike you, I'm not going to make shit up just to try to prove a point.
I have no idea what Wade will play for, but I do know his contract ends in a year.
Bosh is signed, Dragic will be signed, then Riley will have to make decisions on Whiteside as well as other top FA IF they want to come here.

My best guess is Riley will obviously show some loyalty to Wade, but he won't pull a Kobe, and he won't settle for less of a roster by paying Wade more then he feels he's worth.

 

[WiggyRuss]

As raw as Whiteside is, he's totally dominated some games as well as some top centers.
He basically fouled out the Raptors center in very few minutes the other night, and then dominated the Magic center yesterday.
In the past, both those players have destroyed us.

When watching the Cavs, you often can't even tell if Love is on the court, and often they CHOOSE to not play him in crunch time.


There aren't that many dominating centers in the game any more.
We finally have one.
Teams will be lining up to pay him if he improves off of this season and shows mental maturity.

Go back a couple years. Remember Bynum?
Whiteside has all the talent minus the bum knees.

Whiteside does not even know how to play defense yet. Opposing centers with any talent dominate him since he does not know what he is doing. The guy has been forced to sit by Spoelstra this year at different times for not giving effort, or acting like a nut- his game is totally unrefined- maybe thats becuase he has never had great coaching- or maybe its because he refuses to be coached

And really- I would be TERRIFIED of giving this guy big money because then you lose all control over him.

I totally expected him to be a boy scout with the Heat this year since he finally got his shot and i thought no way does he do stupid stuff before he gets a big pay day- and that still did not keep him from acting a fool in various ways.

If I am a GM and give this guy a 3 year 39 million dollar deal- its a deal that either gets you a contract extension- or gets you fired as a GM. I would be terrified as the GM to guarantee this guy money that totally takes the carrot away from him.

He has shown very good talent- but again- one of the most dominant centers in the game is a stretch- like i said- he can block shots off the ball- but his defense is pretty below average at this point.

Andre Drummond is WAAAY better. Rudy Gobert has simlar talent and a lot less backage. You will never have to worry about Jonas Valuncuinas torpedoing your team. Enes Kanter is a damn good player that knows the finer points of the game though he is really young- i take all those guys over whiteside without a second thought.

If you are the GM what would you offer Whiteside and feel comfortable doing so? I couldnt offer him anything over 2 years.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Whiteside does not even know how to play defense yet. Opposing centers with any talent dominate him since he does not know what he is doing. The guy has been forced to sit by Spoelstra this year at different times for not giving effort, or acting like a nut- his game is totally unrefined- maybe thats becuase he has never had great coaching- or maybe its because he refuses to be coached

And really- I would be TERRIFIED of giving this guy big money because then you lose all control over him.

I totally expected him to be a boy scout with the Heat this year since he finally got his shot and i thought no way does he do stupid stuff before he gets a big pay day- and that still did not keep him from acting a fool in various ways.

If I am a GM and give this guy a 3 year 39 million dollar deal- its a deal that either gets you a contract extension- or gets you fired as a GM. I would be terrified as the GM to guarantee this guy money that totally takes the carrot away from him.

He has shown very good talent- but again- one of the most dominant centers in the game is a stretch- like i said- he can block shots off the ball- but his defense is pretty below average at this point.

Andre Drummond is WAAAY better. Rudy Gobert has simlar talent and a lot less backage. You will never have to worry about Jonas Valuncuinas torpedoing your team. Enes Kanter is a damn good player that knows the finer points of the game though he is really young- i take all those guys over whiteside without a second thought.

If you are the GM what would you offer Whiteside and feel comfortable doing so? I couldnt offer him anything over 2 years.

Fine.
Your entitied to your opinion, and I agree with part of it.
He still is learning the game, which makes his ceiling even that much higher.
And, I also agree the other centers you named are very talented.
"WAAAY better" Based on what?
Whiteside isn't just a big body. He's athletic and is showing some nice offensive skills while learning on the fly.

The Heat are notorious for turning baggage into model citizens.

Teams have been trying to bait him ever since he came back off the suspension.

Matter of fact, the official told Lowry on Saturday to quit trying to bait him.
Whiteside was pretty much just laughing at him vs reacting.
I think he's learned his lesson.

 

[bksballer89]

Can you post all of the opposing centers stats who dominated Whiteside? I'll patiently wait since he always get dominated by any center with talent.

Nicolas Vucevic who is a talented center had 3 points and 4 rebounds vs Whiteside last night

The Toronto Center who is solid had 4 points

Joakim Noah had 3 points vs Whiteside

Roy Hibbert had 7 points

Drummond had 11 and 17 against Whiteside.

Can you please stop making shit up? You look like an idiot. I did not even pick and choose these games. I took the Heat last 5 games vs solid/talented Centers.

I will ask again. Who the hell are these opposing centers with talent that is dominated him? You're full of shit

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Can you post all of the opposing centers stats who dominated Whiteside? I'll patiently wait since he always get dominated by any center with talent.

Nicolas Vucevic who is a talented center had 3 points and 4 rebounds vs Whiteside last night

The Toronto Center who is solid had 4 points

Joakim Noah had 3 points vs Whiteside

Roy Hibbert had 7 points

Drummond had 11 and 17 against Whiteside.

Can you please stop making shit up? You look like an idiot. I did not even pick and choose these games. I took the Heat last 5 games vs solid/talented Centers.

I will ask again. Who the hell are these opposing centers with talent that is dominated him? You're full of shit

Only thing that has really stopped Whiteside has been picking up stupid fouls and his temper.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Can you post all of the opposing centers stats who dominated Whiteside? I'll patiently wait since he always get dominated by any center with talent.

Nicolas Vucevic who is a talented center had 3 points and 4 rebounds vs Whiteside last night

The Toronto Center who is solid had 4 points

Joakim Noah had 3 points vs Whiteside

Roy Hibbert had 7 points

Drummond had 11 and 17 against Whiteside.

Can you please stop making shit up? You look like an idiot. I did not even pick and choose these games. I took the Heat last 5 games vs solid/talented Centers.

I will ask again. Who the hell are these opposing centers with talent that is dominated him? You're full of shit

Alex Ajinca for one! 9/10 for 24 points and a game winner! AJINCA!!!

Mozgov had a season high in points and shot like 80% from the field

just go back through and look at the box scores! now he has given just as good as he has got on a lot of nights- but to call him one of the most dominant centers in the league requires a level of play on both ends that he just does not display on a consistent basis at this point.

some of these games during their playoff run ZaZa pachulia outplayed him-

enes Kanter destroyed him! the denver game before that- rookie joseph Nurkic played him to a standstill- again- Whiteside is good- but when you call him "one of the most dominant centers in the league" and guys that are 22, 23 years old are beating him up- i just dont buy it. Vucevic 26 and 8 Gortat 14 and 17...surprsingly enough too he missed 6 games in april and march and the Heat won 4 of those games...



look- i hate ripping down a player like this- especially one that i think is a damn good player- but when you call a guy "one of the most dominant centers in the game"- and like getting a "#1 overall pick" when no one in their right mind would give up Towns, Okafor or Cauley-Stein for Whiteside- dont be surprised when you get some serious and deserved blowback.

 

[bksballer89]

big deal he get outplayed every now and then but you said he gets dominated by every center with talent.....That is flat out a lie

 

[bksballer89]

Mozgov had 1 good game in 3 games against whiteside.

want a cookie?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Only thing that has really stopped Whiteside has been picking up stupid fouls and his temper.

id take Kanter, Gobert, Drummond, and maybe Vucevic over him as far as young centers are concerned.

as far as the whole NBA center wise- you HAVE to add Cousins, Jordan, Gasol, Noah, Horford to that list


theres a few other guys id have to look at- but would probably end upsiding with Whiteside over them- Valuncuinas , Dwight howard, Alex Len, Embiid, Asik- but would really have to look at it more in depth- age, contact, stats, attitude, injury history, coachability etc.....